Author Topic: Each hit triggering multiple MIDI notes in DAW - Nitro mesh kit  (Read 478 times)

Been trying to record MIDI via USB (using Mixcraft 9) but each snare hit triggers multiple MIDI notes in series, like the vibration from the snare is triggering more hits - these hits are high enough in velocity that I can't easily remove them by velocity in the DAW. This is only the case with the mesh heads rather than pads (the snare moreso than toms - perhaps I'm just hitting the snare harder)

The kits internal sounds are triggered without any problems - is there a reason that the MIDI information being send out is different to how the kit is triggering sounds internally (e.g. do parameters like sensitivity, threshold etc. affect the USB MIDI output or just the internal processes?)

Any info on how I can record MIDI more efficiently would be great

Offline Chaser

Re: Each hit triggering multiple MIDI notes in DAW - Nitro mesh kit
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 02:26:03 PM »
Been trying to record MIDI via USB (using Mixcraft 9) but each snare hit triggers multiple MIDI notes in series, like the vibration from the snare is triggering more hits - these hits are high enough in velocity that I can't easily remove them by velocity in the DAW. This is only the case with the mesh heads rather than pads (the snare moreso than toms - perhaps I'm just hitting the snare harder)

The kits internal sounds are triggered without any problems - is there a reason that the MIDI information being send out is different to how the kit is triggering sounds internally (e.g. do parameters like sensitivity, threshold etc. affect the USB MIDI output or just the internal processes?)

Any info on how I can record MIDI more efficiently would be great

I don't use Mixcraft but understand they came out with a MIDI velocity editor 6 months or so ago.

Drum modules are all Trigger to Midi Interfaces.The module interprets the voltage/signal and converts into MIDI.
You then have the option (LOCAL CONTROL) to send the MIDI to the internal sound generator or out to to External sound generators,computers etc etc.
The more advanced the module,the more abilities to adjust the MIDI stream,latency etc.     

 Sensitivity,Threshold,Crosstalk etc etc all affect the trigger voltage/signal which affects MIDI stream.

If you have the sensitivity too high even the slightest hit will generate higher velocities,where as if the Threshold is set too high , you have to hit harder for the Trigger to produce a signal.   
Curve settings also make a difference in dynamics.Try adjusting these and experiment with the different Curves.
There is no "exact settings" as it all depends on Trigger type (open mesh are more sensitive), playing style etc and settings that work well for others might not for you.
Default settings are generally a starting point.

One thing users overlook is USB cable length.
The majority of Drum modules are the USB MIDI standard from 1999 and cannot transmit over 9'6".
The signal will time out along with other issues.

The NITRO module is a based off the Medeli 512-514.
Here is the link to a more in depth manual.


Re: Each hit triggering multiple MIDI notes in DAW - Nitro mesh kit
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2020, 01:27:48 PM »
Thanks for your reply and the link to the manual, all very informative

I'll definitely look into USB cable length, I was trying to use a male-female USB extender the last couple of times I tried, so that's definitely something to cut out of the equation

It's still a bit unclear to me at what point the parameters affect the MIDI - e.g. is 'threshold' preventing a lower voltage from triggering a MIDI note in the first place (whether this MIDI note is used to trigger internal sounds, or is sent out via MIDI cable/USB etc.) or does this only affect how existing MIDI information generated by the pads triggers internal sounds?

In the latter case I can see that the solution would be to try and 'match' the various settings in the DAW/VST to get the same results as I'm getting from the internal sound module

Offline Chaser

Re: Each hit triggering multiple MIDI notes in DAW - Nitro mesh kit
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 05:03:41 PM »
I'll definitely look into USB cable length, I was trying to use a male-female USB extender the last couple of times I tried, so that's definitely something to cut out of the equation

6'worked best for most having trouble...majority of the Medeli modules are USB1.0/1.1 Devices.

It's still a bit unclear to me at what point the parameters affect the MIDI - e.g. is 'threshold' preventing a lower voltage from triggering a MIDI note in the first place (whether this MIDI note is used to trigger internal sounds, or is sent out via MIDI cable/USB etc.) or does this only affect how existing MIDI information generated by the pads triggers internal sounds?

The module only converts to one MIDI,there isn't a separate MIDI stream for Internal vs External.It's probably the samples themselves.
An example would be I can load the same velocity sample from multiple developers into one of my STRIKE modules and the module on most occasions will sort into different velocity ranges.
I have also constructed wav sample/kit/packs and the play back varies through some of the different modules than in the software.

According to the MIDI Implementation chart this module (DD512-514,DM6,Nitro,Surge) only transmits MIDI Note ON (supposedly recognizes MIDI Note OFF)..there is also Pitch value,Velocity information and maybe after touch (key channel-CHOKE) sent along with it.

The DD650 Series is a more recent module (Crimson/II,Command,DM10 MKII Studio,Forge) similar MIDI Implementation charts that also show after touch isn't transmitted but I can confirm it is.(attached)
The DD650 Series also allows you to record your MIDI performance to the modules internal memory and you can play MIDI files from a USB Flash Drive/Stick ,but you can't transfer the Internal MIDI performance to the USB Fash Drive/Stick.

Alesis hasn't provided much support for MIDI Implementation for drum modules in the past few years.
The last module was probably the original DM10.

In the latter case I can see that the solution would be to try and 'match' the various settings in the DAW/VST to get the same results as I'm getting from the internal sound module

You can monitor with MIDIOX and see how the MIDI stream changes as you change parameters in the module and also see exactly what is being sent and compare to what the DAW is interpreting.
I know a lot of users with the same module (DD512-514,DM6,Nitro,Surge) and have no issues with Vst.
I don't know of any that were comparing to the Internal samples though.

The (DD512-514,DM6,Nitro,Surge) module has had many name changes but as far as I know hasn't changed since it originally came out over 10 years ago.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 12:08:21 PM by Chaser »

Re: Each hit triggering multiple MIDI notes in DAW - Nitro mesh kit
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2020, 12:58:48 PM »
MIDIOX was a very useful suggestion, much clearer way to figure out which settings would register a single MIDI note.

I think the main issue was my low sensitivity settings, I guess the internal samples were being still triggered extremely quietly so it sounded like my threshold was high enough when it wasn't

Thanks for all your help