Author Topic: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.  (Read 1133 times)

Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« on: May 27, 2020, 04:58:30 PM »
So I've bought an Alesis DMPad Ride 14" that is supposedly "triple zone" for my kit (DM-10 Mark I module) but shortly after getting it I discovered that it wasn't exactly what I thought it would be, I assumed that all 3 zone rides like these would be using 2-3 piezos but this one is only 1 piezo and 2 switches.

I have plugged it in (2 x stereo, out A to Ride 1, out B to Ride 2), switched ride mode to 3 zone and tried playing but had lot's of issues where bell would trigger with bow, couldn't set it correctly until I've discovered that it has that 1 piezo and 2 switches and then I've changed the mode of Ride Bell to switch and it worked... for a day, while it worked it did behave correctly as one would expect for switch zone so bell and "edge" (saying it in quotes since it seems I can hit it anywhere, as long as it's hard hit it still triggers that crash like sound typical for edge I think but it does mute when I hold it so I think that zone switch works) are not velocity sensitive, but today it stopped working.

I changed cross talk on the Ride 2/Bell ext.trigger setting and also tried different Send/Receive settings on both Ride 2/Bell and Ride 1/Bow and also the trigger sensitivity in both with no effect - regular hits trigger bow sounds, hitting it hard triggers edge sound, grabbing the edge mutes it but no matter how hard or where I hit on the bell or around it's area bell switch doesn't trigger, only way I can get a bell sound is by switching Ride 2/Bell to piezo but then I get both sounds at the same time and overall it doesn't sound correct, even though that way I get velocity sensitive bell I'm aware there is no way this can work right since there is only 1 piezo and I can then either get just the bell and edge (cross talk at 1-7) or mixed bow and bell sounds if set to 0.

I wasn't able to measure anything with multi-meter so I can't confirm if they work correctly, also I have no idea if this just short the circuit or work on the change of capacity/resistance.

My question then is, what could be causing it? I've written to Hellfire over on Youtube to ask if he has any ideas what could be causing it or if there is any way to modify this cymbal but he had no idea due to lack of experience on working with these. I'd like to first get the bell zone to work as it should (no velocity when switched to switch on ext.trigger with proper cross talk setting to not trigger bow zone by mistake) and then I'd like to try and mod this cymbal to add velocity sensitive switch zone on bell (edge can be left to work like it does, assuming the behavior described by me is correct right now) or buy a 2nd piezo and mount it somewhere in the bell area to hopefully have a proper 2 piezo 1 switch cymbal, again I don't really care about the edge, as long as it works correct it doesn't have to be velocity sensitive. I have no way of returning it though so I can't resell it and buy another one.

Also hope it's the right thread, it's my first one here.

Also so it's clear - I'm aware of this thread: https://www.alesisdrummer.com/index.php?topic=2068.0 but to be honest... this doesn't tell me much, I'd need to get a clear instruction what to solder and where on that PCB since I'm not that great with electronics and I really don't feel like spending several hours researching how these modules work exactly and what values of what components need to be used, I'm hoping someone modded this Ride cymbal and can help, either ways will work for me (switch zone velocity or 2nd piezo but I'm aware that 2nd might be tricky to get good separation of zones due to vibrations).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 05:05:04 AM by NeedMoreCowbell »

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2020, 06:39:34 PM »
Iíve been trying to find out how the 3 zone rides are wired for an Alesis, thereís tons of diagrams for the Roland way, piezo and switch for bow/edge and then switch for the bell along with the wiring to the jack, thereís very little I can find for Alesis.

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2020, 07:16:17 PM »
Any ideas why bell stopped working? Is there a specific sensitivity and crosstalk setting that I need to set in the module or could it be it's just faulty?

Would posting pictures of PCB and pointing out what's connected to what on it help?

Could cleaning the switch and rubber that's touching it with isopropyl alcohol help or can it damage the switch/rubber? Is there a way to test the switch with multi-meter?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 07:19:05 PM by NeedMoreCowbell »

Online Hellfire

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2020, 08:28:19 PM »
Any ideas why bell stopped working? Is there a specific sensitivity and crosstalk setting that I need to set in the module or could it be it's just faulty?

Would posting pictures of PCB and pointing out what's connected to what on it help?

Could cleaning the switch and rubber that's touching it with isopropyl alcohol help or can it damage the switch/rubber? Is there a way to test the switch with multi-meter?

I doubt very seriously your PCB has any kind of issue. This is rarely the problem with a bad cymbal.

No, isopropyl alcohol should not damage the switch or rubber.

Most of the time when issues like this happen with a cymbal trigger it's because the cymbal was abused (heavy player with heavy sticks or the cymbal is just old and worn out).

Yes, you can use a multi-meter to test the switch. There are a couple different ways to do this based on what your multi-meter can do. If it has a continuity setting you would use it. One lead to one leg of the switch and the other lead to the other leg (and no it doesn't matter what color to what). While those leads are attached you should be able to press the switch and your meter will beep to let you know there is continuity. When you let go of the switch the meter should stop beeping. This would indicate your switch works just fine.

If you don't have a continuity setting, you would use one of the ohm (resistor) settings. Connect the leads as before. When you press the switch, you should get some kind of reading other than infinite. When you let go of the switch you should get infinite back (how ever your meter displays this). This would mean your switch works just fine.

Good luck!
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 03:46:57 AM »
I just measured the bell switch and it did have a continuity for like... 5-6 presses? Then it stopped working, edge switch does seem to have continouity but I noticed that my multi meter doesn't beep as with dead short, rather than that value is lower when I press the switch harder and higher when I press it lighter, is this due to resistive nature of these switches? And why would the other switch only work few times? Is this a typical sign of dead switch?

I did later disconnected the ribbon and measured with probes attached to it, same thing, I was able to press switch several times in pretty much all points and after that it stopped responding again, I'm confused.  :o My meter when set to resistance and nothing connected shows just 1. (no 0 after .) and when I measure edge with resistance mode I get 1. meaning infite and when I press it it goes down to 0.001-0.002 on a 2M setting, bell one stays at 1. :/
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 04:44:55 AM by NeedMoreCowbell »

Online Hellfire

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 09:49:10 AM »
You could have small pieces of debris (little rubber bits) between the switch. If you can get to the switch apart without breaking it, you need to try to clean it with isopropyl alcohol like you originally stated you wanted to do. That would most likely fix the issue (if that's what the issue is).
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 10:30:51 AM »
You mean as inside of the actual switch ribbon? Because there is nothing on top of it, I did clean it really well and also the rubber surface that presses it, let it dry, blasted it with some air so there was not even a bit of dust, there was no debris there in the first place either, not even any greasy residue or glue.

Online Hellfire

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 11:32:54 AM »
You mean as inside of the actual switch ribbon? Because there is nothing on top of it, I did clean it really well and also the rubber surface that presses it, let it dry, blasted it with some air so there was not even a bit of dust, there was no debris there in the first place either, not even any greasy residue or glue.

The switch is made with two conductive pieces. Sometimes they can come apart and you would clean the actual contacts of the switch. Cleaning the top of the ribbon will not do anything. Keep in mind this still may not fix your problem. The switch could be falling apart internally and there not much you can do but change it. To be honest it would be easier at that point to just get a new cymbal.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2020, 11:39:52 PM »
I could but then what? Throw this one away? Add to the pile of plastics we are drowning in... I don't like throwing away stuff.

Already bought piezos, I'll be converting it to proper 3 zone cymbal, since the choke works I'll only have to figure out a way to mount 3rd piezo somewhere near the edge for actual edge zone and somehow separate it so it doesn't trigger, worst part will be the PCB and figuring out how to wire it all but I've got the bell one mounted on a small cymbal I quickly made from some scrap I had lying around that its on top of the main cymbal separated from it and I've got proper bell and bow now on piezo + choke. If I won't figure out the PCB I'll just wire it as a separate trigger and plug into one of the free inputs, maybe steal a rim input from one of the other inputs that support 2 triggers on one input.

And if it all doesn't work (crosstalk) I'll just buy new switch and try to get that velocity working with switches and 1 piezo. I'm still waiting for someone that may know how to make it work with this cymbal while also keeping choke functionality and having both switches work with velocity.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 11:49:42 PM by NeedMoreCowbell »

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2020, 05:37:38 PM »
I bought a used and I just had modify the "bell" zone with the properly midi note because it have the "crash" note on it, but sometimes I leave it if I don't want to use the "bell" sound because I only have one crash cymbal.

The ride plug is in the front and the crash is behind, I put"9" threshold to avoid "ride" and "bell" being hit at the same time because the bell is too sensitive, I don't have any problems with the choke and edge.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 05:42:18 PM by ginnungagap »

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2020, 09:16:34 PM »
Already bought piezos, I'll be converting it to proper 3 zone cymbal, since the choke works I'll only have to figure out a way to mount 3rd piezo somewhere near the edge for actual edge zone and somehow separate it so it doesn't trigger, worst part will be the PCB and figuring out how to wire it all but I've got the bell one mounted on a small cymbal I quickly made from some scrap I had lying around that its on top of the main cymbal separated from it and I've got proper bell and bow now on piezo + choke. If I won't figure out the PCB I'll just wire it as a separate trigger and plug into one of the free inputs, maybe steal a rim input from one of the other inputs that support 2 triggers on one input.

And if it all doesn't work (crosstalk) I'll just buy new switch and try to get that velocity working with switches and 1 piezo. I'm still waiting for someone that may know how to make it work with this cymbal while also keeping choke functionality and having both switches work with velocity.

Hello. Did you have any progress with this?

I bought it for my Nitro kit, only to realize after a lot of search that it is not compatible. This diagram helped me a lot:
https://edrums.github.io/en/diy/cymbal_switch/
The point is that the module must be programmed to read those switches, and, based on which of the 4 states all switches are, decides what to do with the piezo signal. And only the particular module is specific modes do that...  :(

For now, I've blocked jack A, so I am using it as a ride(bow)+choke. But I would like to see if I could add a piezo for the bell. So did you have any success with that? How is the crosstalk between bow and bell, and the overall feeling of it?

Or maybe you even managed converting to a "velocity switch"? :)

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 03:18:56 AM »
There is an extra "circle" placed behind of the cymbal to put a second piezo maybe?... I open it to clean it yesterday, so, you can try.



I have the Ride Cable in the "B" and the Crash Cable in the "A" and like I said works great all the zones plus the choke, If I invert the cables only works as a crash.


I’ve been trying to find out how the 3 zone rides are wired for an Alesis, there’s tons of diagrams for the Roland way, piezo and switch for bow/edge and then switch for the bell along with the wiring to the jack, there’s very little I can find for Alesis.

Alesis 14" Ride is 1 Piezo and two switches

« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 04:21:09 AM by ginnungagap »

Re: Alesis DMPad Ride 14" - repair or modding.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2020, 04:17:57 AM »
I noticed in the last days the piezo was going off a lot with constantly hits, so, I bought a new piezo yesterday and the solder joints facing the back of the pad, so, I did the same with my Roland CY-5 for the hi-hat and both cymbals works a lot better than before.

My pics above the solder joins were facing the right side.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 04:19:32 AM by ginnungagap »