Author Topic: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro  (Read 203 times)

Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« on: March 19, 2020, 12:33:36 PM »
I am trying to use a DM10 MKII Pro module to play the SampleRack internal sounds or sounds on an SD card in the SampleRack. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module to the SampleRack MIDI IN port and have chosen one DM10 MKII Pro user kit to use in this way. I have matched the MIDI Note numbers in this user kit to those used by the Sample Rack and turned all of the volumes for the DM10 MKII Pro voices in this kit to ZERO, I am getting no sounds at all on the DM10 MKII Pro. Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

Offline Chaser

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2020, 02:20:36 PM »
I am trying to use a DM10 MKII Pro module to play the SampleRack internal sounds or sounds on an SD card in the SampleRack. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module to the SampleRack MIDI IN port and have chosen one DM10 MKII Pro user kit to use in this way. I have matched the MIDI Note numbers in this user kit to those used by the Sample Rack and turned all of the volumes for the DM10 MKII Pro voices in this kit to ZERO, I am getting no sounds at all on the DM10 MKII Pro. Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks.

If you are using the DM10 MKII Pro just as a (TMI) "Trigger to MIDI Interface" to the SampleRack then the sound will be output from the SampleRack.
No audio is transferred through MIDI 5 pin.
In the DM10 MKII Pro module Local Control needs to be turned OFF....I think for this module it's under UTILITY>Master Setup
There is no need to zero the volume for the DM10 MKII Pro internal Voices as the module will only send MIDI.

*Local Control:
When activated (On), playing the pads connected to the drum module will trigger the drum module’s internal sounds.
When deactivated (Off), playing the pads will send MIDI notes from the drum module to a connected computer or MIDI device)

In order to hear the Voices from the Samplerack in the DM10 MKII Pro module you will need a "Y"-cable/splitter from the outputs of the Samplerack
1/8" (3.5mm)TRS to (2)TS (6.35mm) to the aux input of the DM10 MKII Pro module.
According to both User Guides the main outputs are TS cables.
You could also run from the headphone of the Samplerack to the aux input,don't know what the sound quality would be though.

 

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 07:31:52 AM »
Hi Chaser,

Thanks for the reply.
I think I haven't explained properly what I am trying to achieve.

I have a 2 Roland BT-1 Triggers that are bolted to the rim of Tom 3 on my DM10 MKII Pro kit. These are connected by TRS cables to a Roland TM-2.
One of the BT-1s is used for intro sounds on songs such as the car at the beginning of Roxy Music's Love Is The Drug or the strange sound at the beginning of The Cult's She Sells Sanctuary. These sounds are on an SD card inserted in the BT-1. Each of these sounds are used in separate BT-1 kits.

Now to the MIDI part. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI IN port on the BT-1 to the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module and matched the MIDI Note numbers of the BT-1 sounds to the MIDI Note numbers for a couple of toms in the dedicated DM10 MKII Pro module kit. With the volume of the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds turned to zero I hear the BT-1 sound when I hit the tom(s). Also if I turn the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds up I get a layered sound e.g. a cowbell and a tom at the same time.

I want to achieve the same with using a SampleRack in the same way as I do the BT-1.

So I have disconnected the MIDI cable from the BT-1 and connected to it to the MIDI OUT Port on the SampleRack and matched the MIDI notes (SampleRack and DM10 MKII Pro) . When I play the DM10 MKII toms I hear nothing from the SampleRack.

Any ideas please.

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 10:02:03 AM »
I am trying to use a DM10 MKII Pro module to play the SampleRack internal sounds or sounds on an SD card in the SampleRack. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module to the SampleRack MIDI IN port and have chosen one DM10 MKII Pro user kit to use in this way. I have matched the MIDI Note numbers in this user kit to those used by the Sample Rack and turned all of the volumes for the DM10 MKII Pro voices in this kit to ZERO, I am getting no sounds at all on the DM10 MKII Pro. Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks.
Hi Chaser,

Thanks for the reply.
I think I haven't explained properly what I am trying to achieve.

I have a 2 Roland BT-1 Triggers that are bolted to the rim of Tom 3 on my DM10 MKII Pro kit. These are connected by TRS cables to a Roland TM-2.
One of the BT-1s is used for intro sounds on songs such as the car at the beginning of Roxy Music's Love Is The Drug or the strange sound at the beginning of The Cult's She Sells Sanctuary. These sounds are on an SD card inserted in the BT-1. Each of these sounds are used in separate BT-1 kits.

Now to the MIDI part. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI IN port on the BT-1 to the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module and matched the MIDI Note numbers of the BT-1 sounds to the MIDI Note numbers for a couple of toms in the dedicated DM10 MKII Pro module kit. With the volume of the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds turned to zero I hear the BT-1 sound when I hit the tom(s). Also if I turn the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds up I get a layered sound e.g. a cowbell and a tom at the same time.

I want to achieve the same with using a SampleRack in the same way as I do the BT-1.

So I have disconnected the MIDI cable from the BT-1 and connected to it to the MIDI OUT Port on the SampleRack and matched the MIDI notes (SampleRack and DM10 MKII Pro) . When I play the DM10 MKII toms I hear nothing from the SampleRack.

Any ideas please.

Chaser, the problem is me!
Not only did you tell me answer but it was literally staring me in the face before I made the post.
I already had my headphones split between the TM-2 and the DM10 MKII Pro, as well as having both the TM-2 and the DM10 MKII Pro split into my amp. I just hadn't done that with the SampleRack!
Sincere apologies for wasting your time but thank you for your reply.
Den

Offline Chaser

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 12:35:07 PM »

Now to the MIDI part. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI IN port on the BT-1 to the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module and matched the MIDI Note numbers of the BT-1 sounds to the MIDI Note numbers for a couple of toms in the dedicated DM10 MKII Pro module kit. With the volume of the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds turned to zero I hear the BT-1 sound when I hit the tom(s). Also if I turn the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds up I get a layered sound e.g. a cowbell and a tom at the same time.

I want to achieve the same with using a SampleRack in the same way as I do the BT-1.

So I have disconnected the MIDI cable from the BT-1 and connected to it to the MIDI OUT Port on the SampleRack and matched the MIDI notes (SampleRack and DM10 MKII Pro) . When I play the DM10 MKII toms I hear nothing from the SampleRack.

Any ideas please.

I wasn't aware the BT-1 had MIDI....I thought it was just a trigger..

I am trying to use a DM10 MKII Pro module to play the SampleRack internal sounds or sounds on an SD card in the SampleRack. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module to the SampleRack MIDI IN port and have chosen one DM10 MKII Pro user kit to use in this way. I have matched the MIDI Note numbers in this user kit to those used by the Sample Rack and turned all of the volumes for the DM10 MKII Pro voices in this kit to ZERO, I am getting no sounds at all on the DM10 MKII Pro. Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks.
Hi Chaser,

Thanks for the reply.
I think I haven't explained properly what I am trying to achieve.

I have a 2 Roland BT-1 Triggers that are bolted to the rim of Tom 3 on my DM10 MKII Pro kit. These are connected by TRS cables to a Roland TM-2.
One of the BT-1s is used for intro sounds on songs such as the car at the beginning of Roxy Music's Love Is The Drug or the strange sound at the beginning of The Cult's She Sells Sanctuary. These sounds are on an SD card inserted in the BT-1. Each of these sounds are used in separate BT-1 kits.

Now to the MIDI part. I have connected a MIDI cable from the MIDI IN port on the BT-1 to the MIDI OUT/THRU port on the DM10 MKII Pro module and matched the MIDI Note numbers of the BT-1 sounds to the MIDI Note numbers for a couple of toms in the dedicated DM10 MKII Pro module kit. With the volume of the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds turned to zero I hear the BT-1 sound when I hit the tom(s). Also if I turn the DM10 MKII Pro internal sounds up I get a layered sound e.g. a cowbell and a tom at the same time.

I want to achieve the same with using a SampleRack in the same way as I do the BT-1.

So I have disconnected the MIDI cable from the BT-1 and connected to it to the MIDI OUT Port on the SampleRack and matched the MIDI notes (SampleRack and DM10 MKII Pro) . When I play the DM10 MKII toms I hear nothing from the SampleRack.

Any ideas please.

Chaser, the problem is me!
Not only did you tell me answer but it was literally staring me in the face before I made the post.
I already had my headphones split between the TM-2 and the DM10 MKII Pro, as well as having both the TM-2 and the DM10 MKII Pro split into my amp. I just hadn't done that with the SampleRack!
Sincere apologies for wasting your time but thank you for your reply.
Den

Nobody is wasting anybodies time here although there are those who refuse to read the user Guide or use the Search function for basic questions and those questions sometimes don't get a response.Happy to hear yours got resolved.

One question I have asked numerous DM10 MKII Pro users..countless times...and still have never gotten the answer.

"Does audio pass back and forth through the USB as stated in the User Guide?"..or is it a typo....if it does it opens a whole new level.

User Guide pg 4
USB MIDI/Audio Port: Connect this USB port to a computer using a standard USB cable. The drum module will send MIDI messages and audio to and from your computer over this connection.


Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 03:03:53 PM »
Firstly you are correct the BT-1 does not have MIDI. It was a an error on my part it should say TM-2. Apologies.
Secondly I have not tried connecting the DM10 MKII module to a computer via the USB port. I shall try it tomorrow.
I have another question however.
One thing that I find really useful is that the DM10 MKII Pro Hi Hat is not cut out when the HH Pedal is held down. So that means the Hi Hat Pedal can be used for example as a tambourine and the Hi Hat continues to be heard.
I am wanting to use the SampleRack as a storage medium for additional sounds and kits for the DM10 MKII Pro using MIDI.
This is working satisfactorily using one DM10 MKII Pro dedicated Kit (no: 30 using MIDI notes 60-82) and separate kits (each kit obviously using MIDI notes 60-82) on the SampleRack for each song.
However in my ignorance I thought that as I was using MIDI then the way in which the DM10 MKII Pro Hi Hat and pedal operate would stay the same.
It doesn't.
When the HH Pedal is pushed down no sound comes from the Hi Hat.
How is it that this happens?

Offline Chaser

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2020, 06:43:17 PM »
Firstly you are correct the BT-1 does not have MIDI. It was a an error on my part it should say TM-2. Apologies.
Secondly I have not tried connecting the DM10 MKII module to a computer via the USB port. I shall try it tomorrow.
I have another question however.
One thing that I find really useful is that the DM10 MKII Pro Hi Hat is not cut out when the HH Pedal is held down. So that means the Hi Hat Pedal can be used for example as a tambourine and the Hi Hat continues to be heard.
I am wanting to use the SampleRack as a storage medium for additional sounds and kits for the DM10 MKII Pro using MIDI.
This is working satisfactorily using one DM10 MKII Pro dedicated Kit (no: 30 using MIDI notes 60-82) and separate kits (each kit obviously using MIDI notes 60-82) on the SampleRack for each song.
However in my ignorance I thought that as I was using MIDI then the way in which the DM10 MKII Pro Hi Hat and pedal operate would stay the same.
It doesn't.
When the HH Pedal is pushed down no sound comes from the Hi Hat.
How is it that this happens?


Hi Hats are probably the number one complaint in the E-drum world...
I presume you are using the Alesis Realhat (continuous/variable)..some retailer sold these kits with the Pro-X (FSR)but I have never had anyone confirm if there is an option in the menu like the Crimson II.
Hi hats are a whole different setup compared to triggers and using your own samples.
Modules usually have the HH input and HH pedal input tied together and you can't change the Voices/Samples"Hi Hat combinations"
especially with a continuous/variable Hi Hat as it also sends pedal position (CC4)..

Modules such as the Medeli DD512-514/DD650 rebrands (Crimson/II,Command,DM10 MKII Studio,Forge,Nitro etc) Have "Hi Hat Combinations"...
which you can't change...even if the module has the ability to import samples (Exception=STRIKE MODULE)
and in some cases like the DM10 MKII Studio/Crimson II,you can't change the MIDI notes sent.

There isn't much information for the Samplerack or the DM10 MKII Pro other than the simple user guides.
I couldn't even find the MIDI map for the Samplerack in it's User Guide.
The rebranded Medeli's you can reference their manuals and get much more information..

The DM10 MKII Pro and Samplerack are similar in that they both use layers and a velocity point.

*Velo Point: The velocity point separates Layer A and Layer B.
Values above the point will activate Layer A, and values below the point will activate Layer B.
If the velocity point is set to 127, the voice is only one layer and Wave B will be unselectable.
•Wave A: The sample for the first layer of the voice.
•Wave B: The sample for the second layer of the voice.

The DM10 MKII Pro uses a Variable Hi Hat..
MIDI MAP
Hi Hat OPEN 46
Hi Hat EDGE OPEN 26
Hi Hat CLOSED 42
Hi Hat EDGE CLOSED 22
Hi Hat PEDAL 44
Hi Hat  PEDAL SPLASH 21

Whereas the Samplerack...is OPEN...1/2 OPEN...CLOSED.
I don't know if the 1/2 open only works with a variable pedal.
I don't have the MIDI map so don't know if one note per which would give the Samplerack Hi Hat 8 (6HH+2pedal) notes and the MKII Pro 6 (4HH+2pedal)..so I doubt it.
It's more than likely 5 (3 HH+2 pedal)
Input 8 – Labeled “Hi-Hat” 
•“HH A OP” (This is the Hi-Hat Bow with the pedal in the open position)
•“HH A MD” (This is the Hi-Hat Bow with the pedal in the middle position)
•“HH A CL” (This is the Hi-Hat Bow with the pedal in the closed position)
 
•“HH B OP” (This is the Hi-Hat Edge with the pedal in the open position)
•“HH B MD” (This is the Hi-Hat Edge with the pedal in the middle position)
•“HH B CL” (This is the Hi-Hat Edge with the pedal in the closed position)

Input Labeled “Hi-Hat Pedal”
•“HH CHK” (This is when the user performs the “Chick” action by closing the hi-hat pedal)
•“HH SPL” (This is when the user performs the “Splash” action by closing and opening the hi-hat pedal quickly

There is an option for the Hi Hat in the Samplerack...but by Alesis recommending the DM Hat pedal (open/closed)the samples or the module may not work well with a variable controller,because there are no "Hi Hat Combinations" or it can't interpet CC4 or pedal position very well.

*Hi-Hat Input - Connect a Hi-Hat pedal here using a 1/4" TS cable to use this input to control the position of a Hi-Hat  while  playing.
Select  "SWITCH"  if  you  are  using  a  standard  footswitch.
Select  "VARIABLE"  if  you  are  using a variable hi-hat pedal.
We recommend using the Alesis DMHat Pedal with SampleRack...(which is switch type and for switch type samples...ON/OFF-OPEN/CLOSED)

You can try to set the Hi Hat to variable and see if it works any better.

The DM10 MKII Pro has some similarities to the DD638/DX but I have never had a module to compare everything and no one has ever answered back.
Check and see if anything lines up..Kits/Instruments/Songs//Voices etc
 DD638/DX

EDIT:
I forgot to mention MUTE GROUPS...
One thing that I find really useful is that the DM10 MKII Pro Hi Hat is not cut out when the HH Pedal is held down. So that means the Hi Hat Pedal can be used for example as a tambourine and the Hi Hat continues to be heard.
When the HH Pedal is pushed down no sound comes from the Hi Hat.
How is it that this happens?
Hi Hat samples are usually placed into a MUTE GROUP....
The Samplerack has this option User Guide pg 8
SAMPLERACK

So set the Samplerack to variable...put the samples in a MUTE GROUP and see what happens.
I don't know if by selecting variable if that will have any effect on the incoming MIDI from the DM10 MKII Pro
or if it just changes how the Samplerack interprets the signal at the HH pedal input only.
I have only done it when testing a TMI (TriggerIO) MIDI into a STRIKE module as a sample player
and it worked well/sent proper MIDI...however the TriggerIO auto detects (not from a menu setting or physical switch) Hi Hat pedals to determine if open/closed or Continuous/Variable.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 08:08:02 PM by Chaser »

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 05:51:54 AM »
Thanks, I'll try all of that.
What I can't get my head round is how the SampleRack, with ONLY a MIDI cable connected, auto detects which DM10 MKII Pro pad (inc HH pedal) is being hit. Change the HH Pedal and HH MIDI notes back to something outside of the range I am using (even to 0) and the pedal and hat function as normal for a DM10 MKII Pro kit. Whereas I thought that I could have 30 additional kits functioning as they do in the DM10 MKII Pro, it seems I may  have to effectively use mixed kits (use SampleRack kits for all except HH pedal and Hi Hat and DM10 MKII Pro HH pedal and HH voices at the same time). It just adds extra time to song changes at gigs.

Offline Chaser

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 12:16:17 PM »
Thanks, I'll try all of that.
What I can't get my head round is how the SampleRack, with ONLY a MIDI cable connected, auto detects which DM10 MKII Pro pad (inc HH pedal) is being hit. Change the HH Pedal and HH MIDI notes back to something outside of the range I am using (even to 0) and the pedal and hat function as normal for a DM10 MKII Pro kit. Whereas I thought that I could have 30 additional kits functioning as they do in the DM10 MKII Pro, it seems I may  have to effectively use mixed kits (use SampleRack kits for all except HH pedal and Hi Hat and DM10 MKII Pro HH pedal and HH voices at the same time). It just adds extra time to song changes at gigs.

There are many options when using MIDI,especially if you start using 5 pin and multiple devices.
You can setup up MIDI loop between all,use a MIDI merge from all to one etc etc.

The DM10MKII has a GM Mode option and can also send/receive program changes.It also has a "soft through" for MIDI.The Sample rack doesn't have a GM Mode,but is capable of Programs changes.
I have setup a TriggerIO with a few of the modules and created multiple .syx files each with 20 different GM kits (including 5 & 6 tom kits) each complete with program changes for switching banks.The kits/instruments can then be stacked/switched on the fly with the module main instruments/kits giving multiple combinations depending on specific settings in the module in regards to Local Control and GM Modes.
Use this post for reference as GM MIDI is a standard and the GM instruments and notes are universal so you can refer to the GM sections of the Manuals.
The procedure is the same except you have more devices in the loop,using more cables and more options.
There is no additional info in the DM10 MKII Pro User Guide for GM Kits/Lists/Instruments/Backing/program change parameters etc.Unknown exactly how many GM Kits/banks it actually has or the bank #'s...unknown for program changes send/receive as there is no MIDI Implementation chart for either...so experimenting is the only option.

COMMAND/CRIMSON/II/DM10 MKII Studio/FORGE/NITRO/SURGE-Instrument/Voice Stacking
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 12:31:24 PM by Chaser »

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 05:12:18 PM »
Hi Chaser,
However I have solved my problem.
I have used a different HH Pedal.
When I first decided to try an electronic drum kit I bought one of the cheaper ones, just in case I decided an electronic kit wasn't for.
It is a Millenium MPS 200.
I tried the HH pedal and it gives me exactly what I wanted to achieve.
This pedal has a switch on the top, above the jack socket.
I connected it to the HH pedal port on the back of the SampleRack and with this switch in the forward position it gives me exactly what I wanted to achieve. It doesn't matter what position the HH pedal switch on the back of the SampleRack is in.
So with 2 HH pedals I now have a hybrid kit - the DM10MKII Pro with 30 kits and 60 or so user voices and the SampleRack with 30+ kits and at least another 60 user voices. Just what I wanted.
Now I shall look at what can be done with a USB to Computer connection on a DM10MKII Pro.

Offline Chaser

Re: Using a SampleRack with DM10 MKII Pro
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 09:55:38 AM »
Happy to hear you found a solution that works for you..dual hi hat is a simpler solution than dealing with all the MIDI.

The "Millenium" Drum kits are rebranded Medeli for Thomann Music Europe.
The MPS-200(DD500-502) came out in mid-late 2000's.
The pedal is a continuous/variable type.. also Medeli.Early Alesis kits came with the same flame pedal (w/o switch) the switch is a polarity switch.
Alesis had the polarity switch removed added a logo pedal and it became the Reahat.
The Realhat that came with the DM10 MKII Pro you'll still see the area for the switch above the jack is still there.