Author Topic: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion  (Read 1455 times)

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2019, 12:30:11 PM »
thanks @Chaser I just found the Cymgard ones.  I think I might give these a try
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Chaser

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2019, 12:59:21 PM »
Probably what to watch for is type of material..some use rubber , others a stretch fabric that can be wide or thin and the quality of the material may determine how much dampening it actually does.I have heard the Cymguard works well but use the Lite as the standard pretty much kills a cymbal.

I checked the Goedrum ebay store and they recently added more cymbals,you can see how the bell was isolated..if someone is looking to purchase just  sure you read the description as most are for Yamaha..single cable/jack...,a few are 2 cable/jack and suggested for Roland.
goedrum-us

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2019, 08:10:31 AM »
Some great advice thank you.  At least I have options now  :D
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Chaser

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2019, 09:44:33 AM »
If you are just going with single zone as you mentioned in your first post...a trigger box and a mute ring and your done..



with all the perforations you also have the option of trying different locations on the cymbal...

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2019, 08:49:08 AM »
China Cymbal Update (I'm still down the, "I can do this myself rabbit hole")

I gaff taped a 1" strip of foam around 1/2" inside the rim on the back side.  The length was between 1/3 and 1/4 of the circumference of the rim.

I also gaff taped another piece just inside the bell on the front side.  That was about the 1/3 the size of a 45 record  :D

I'll get pics up soon.

I gave it a test before I actually plugged it in and noticed a big difference in the vibrations.  Trying to not get to excited I plugged her in and I was very happy to not year the "rattle" after the decay!  There was some but very faint

I would have spent more time on this but I was on a side mission.  I was getting some unexplained triggering of some pads I couldn't figure out so I wrote down all my cross talk settings and reset my module.  I didn't test the china until after the reset.

I will most likely get some cymbal dampeners and test those and if needed use a combo of those and some foam.

The tape/foam works but the aesthetics are not pleasing to the eye

I'll post some current pics above hopefully soon.

@Iggford - I feel another project coming your way with those Gen16 14"  LOL

I saw someone who created a DIY dampening ring out of elastic fabric he found at a local fabric store.  I'm heading to one during lunch today to see if I can find some. 
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2019, 01:14:53 PM »
Awesome!  Sounds good!  I'm seriously thinking about picking up one of those GoEdrum triggers and a mute ring just to see how it compares.

If I can get these to trigger, I'll use my Gen16s as my 2 crashes and I'll get an L80 China and 10" Splash.  Mainly because they are like half the price of the Gen16 cymbals in places.  And I think the smallest splash in the Gen16 is 12".  But it shouldn't mess with my OCD too much.  I'll have the Gen16 as the two outer cymbals and the L80s as the two middle ones. 

As of right now, I'm not going to mess with my ride.  I NEED the bell trigger, and it looks like it's a bit harder to get the 3-zone stuff to work with these.  I'm gonna try to at least get my two crashes done before our next gig at the end of this month.

I'm in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment.  I discovered my cracked snare plate on Sunday.  I had been having some issues with hotspots at our gig on Saturday, and I opened it up Sunday afternoon to 2 corners busted.  I've been secretly hoping this would happen, as I'm still under my warranty from Sweetwater, and I'm hopeful that they'll replace it with one of the new generation pads. 

I don't really know what that has to do with the cymbals, LOL.  I guess I'm just focused on that mainly at the moment, but I'm also trying to figure out which way to go on the cymbals. 

I like the elastic fabric idea for the dampening ring.  I work for a bedding supply company, so I may be able to get ahold of some elastic to test out. 

Man, so many different ways to go!!!


--
Shawn

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2019, 03:15:36 PM »
I have to get done this project.......and fix an 8" kick with new padding before I even think about starting down the hi-hat rabbit hole.....LOL.  That go eDrum controller is on my list.  I'll probably see if I can get the Strike H.H. to work well enough for now, then when all these other projects are done.  Look at the HH

Bummer about the snare plate but at least now you can get that resolved with maybe a new gen pad.  My S.P. I bought used so I'm rolling the dice.  Once our Halloween show is done things will cool down and I'll get it setup and check all the pads and mod them if needed.

Don't worry about staying on topic.......we've covered cymbals and  lights....... why not warranty and snares.

So the fabric store had some good options (JoAnn Fabric), but after thinking about it I realized I wouldn't have time to sew the ends since there is no WAY I'd be able to get the edges cut straight, so I don't think I'm going to try that.  I'll probably just order some cheapo ring mutes from Flea-bay and just wait for them to come in.  For the time being I can just deal with the tape/foam mod.

I know there are so many ways to go with this but in the end the goal to make this look as good as it is functional is key.  With the foam/acrylic mod I could get it to look good but how long the nuts would hold the acrylic is a concern.  Even with lock nuts and a lock washer one fell off the China.  Plus the hassle of cutting the acrylic

With the tape/foam, it can be done but the aesthetics is not the best.  So I'll make due then go with a mute ring and foam in needed.  In the end they should look good, do the job, and....... be easy to repair if something happens just before or during a show.  That's the third critical piece I keep forgetting about.

All this stuff is well and good while playing in my basement or even practice, but to have a failure during a show would be too stressful.  I have enough stress worrying about not being the one to cause a train wreck during a show.
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2019, 04:37:33 PM »
Yeah, in the end, it's all about how it performs on stage.  That IS the key to remember.  Even with the DIY cymbals, and even if they work phenomenally, I'll still probably carry a couple of regular electrics in the car JUST in case. 

Of course, I didn't carry a backup for my snare Saturday night.  But honestly, I had checked plates a few weeks ago and nothing was bad, so I didn't think to even check during the gig.  I boiled it down to user error and weird acoustics of a new venue.

Speaking of acoustics being weird.  I'm guessing that is what this is.  My kick drum keeps wanting to trigger randomly.  I'm chalking this up to the fact that it's GOT to be something in the vibration from the PA, as I don't have the problem at all when I'm playing at home with headphones, or even my smaller amp.  Seems to trigger at certain notes coming through the PA, and we were on cement Saturday.  I've had it happen at a couple of other venues lately, too.  The snare does it occasionally, but I'm honestly wondering if my cracked plate may have been an earlier break that I somehow missed when I checked everything.  I can kinda control that with the sensitivity knob.  I may have sensitivity up too high all around.  If you don't mind me asking, where do you keep yours on various pads?  It may be worth changing all that up to see if I can get rid of the problem.

It's strange that even lock nuts would fall off the cymbal.  You'd think they'd stay in place, but I guess the vibration they're getting is probably not something they're designed for.  Which makes me wonder about the GoEdrum triggers.  It looks like they attach with some kind of screw.  It'll be interesting to see how that works.  May have to keep a screwdriver in the bag for shows (most of the time, I do anyway).  Something to check between sets possibly.

I'm the same way as you, I'm so worried about being the one to throw a song off completely, I don't need the constant worry of a failure.  Luckily, I've held it together in most cases.  There have been a few hiccups, but it happens to all of us, and that's what live music's all about! :)


--
Shawn

Offline AlanK

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2019, 11:17:34 AM »
Hey Shawn here's one thing to check, likely isn't it, but I had it on my kit a couple years ago when I was in my full on add pads and cymbals via splitting inputs rage. I had used the Kick2 trigger settings with a splitter off my Kick input, then at some point I stopped using the extra pad or cymbal that was on that splitter. I'd get ghost triggering until I went into the module and deleted the Kick2 settings (or set it to None). I think the splitter was either still plugged in and the motion of the rack was shaking the tip and it would cause triggers or it may have been tapping against another cable, causing triggers.. or if I had the splitter out, I think someone had explained that just having Kick2 programmed was causing the ghost notes.. anyhoo, as soon as I removed having any instrument voice assigned to Kick2 it all went away.

Just a thought...
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, 682 white mesh cone conversion, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Tama saddle, Panasonic noise cancelling headphones, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2019, 12:02:21 PM »
Alan,

Genius!  I never thought of that!  I haven't split my kick for my Strike kit specifically, but at one point, I DID split it for use with my DM10 kit, as I don't have a double pedal on that kit, so I used two separate pads.  I'm THINKING that I built my current kits from scratch, but I've edited so many off of existing user kits, that there's a good possibility that's what I've done.

With the Strike, I have to plug in a dual-zone pad to even be able to activate the Kick Rim, as the kick pad is only a single-zone, and the Kick2 or Rim (can't remember what it's called in the module) is not a selectable item.  So this adds to the possibility that I built my kits out of a previous effort and just forgot to clear that out. 

Thanks for the idea, I will check it out this evening!


--
Shawn

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2019, 12:40:35 PM »
Yeah, in the end, it's all about how it performs on stage.  That IS the key to remember.  Even with the DIY cymbals, and even if they work phenomenally, I'll still probably carry a couple of regular electrics in the car JUST in case. 

Of course, I didn't carry a backup for my snare Saturday night.  But honestly, I had checked plates a few weeks ago and nothing was bad, so I didn't think to even check during the gig.  I boiled it down to user error and weird acoustics of a new venue.

Speaking of acoustics being weird.  I'm guessing that is what this is.  My kick drum keeps wanting to trigger randomly.  I'm chalking this up to the fact that it's GOT to be something in the vibration from the PA, as I don't have the problem at all when I'm playing at home with headphones, or even my smaller amp.  Seems to trigger at certain notes coming through the PA, and we were on cement Saturday.  I've had it happen at a couple of other venues lately, too.  The snare does it occasionally, but I'm honestly wondering if my cracked plate may have been an earlier break that I somehow missed when I checked everything.  I can kinda control that with the sensitivity knob.  I may have sensitivity up too high all around.  If you don't mind me asking, where do you keep yours on various pads?  It may be worth changing all that up to see if I can get rid of the problem.

It's strange that even lock nuts would fall off the cymbal.  You'd think they'd stay in place, but I guess the vibration they're getting is probably not something they're designed for.  Which makes me wonder about the GoEdrum triggers.  It looks like they attach with some kind of screw.  It'll be interesting to see how that works.  May have to keep a screwdriver in the bag for shows (most of the time, I do anyway).  Something to check between sets possibly.

I'm the same way as you, I'm so worried about being the one to throw a song off completely, I don't need the constant worry of a failure.  Luckily, I've held it together in most cases.  There have been a few hiccups, but it happens to all of us, and that's what live music's all about! :)


--
Shawn

To answer your question about sensitivity knob..........LOL.........I have no idea.......LOL

My kit is still all apart in a box.  I'm still using both hybrid DM10 kits for practice at home and band practice and for our upcoming show.  I knew the learning curve on the Strike module would be too much to take on with..........having to practice.......... this cymbal project..........having to refoam a DM10 kick drum........and spend time tweaking custom kits.

My plan is to wait until after our Halloween show to get the Strike kit setup.  I actually need to clear space next to my DM10 kit at home so I can practice when I need to practice and when I get time.......sit behind the Strike kit and start to get the feel for the kit and the module.

I was amazed that the lock nut fell off.  Maybe I didn't have it on all the way,  Due to the curve of the china I really had to bend the acrylic more than on the crash.  At this point the fact it did come off makes me wonder and second guess that setup.   I guess I could locktite it  but unless the cymbal mutes (and foam if required) doesn't work then I'll probably stay away from the acrylic/foam idea.  I ordered a set of cymbal mutes off Flea-bay last night.  Then won't get here until late Oct early Nov (China).  Hopefully by then I'll have the space for the Strike Pro kit cleared and the kit setup and I can start testing everything.

I was taught by our guitar player that having backups and minimizing equipment failure is key.  I'm always thinking about that.  I carry spare toms/cymbals/kick drum with me to every practice and show just in case because having equipment fail during performing is not good. 

We've gotten really good at covering for each other.  The guitar player and I have developed a really good "unspoken" communication.  Anytime something happens that throws off the singer, I go into recover mode where I pick a point to change and he follows.  I know this is not how its supposed to be done but our singer has never sung in a band before so I don't want her to worry about trying to change.  If we get of just slightly she can usually recover from that but if it's a major BUMP she can get lost so I try to get us back on track quickly.

The interesting thing I've learned is that a lot of times, people don't really notice.  Which is really odd to me because I know the second I throw and off beat kick note, or I'm late on a fill, or I miss an intro.
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2019, 02:48:09 PM »
I've always carried a backup module with me.  I have so many toms and cymbals on my kit, that normally I could just swap one out if necessary.  All but the bass drum.  I really need to work out a backup for that as well.

Hopefully the mutes will work.  Were they a good deal?  I've seen them on Amazon, but I haven't had a chance to look beyond there yet.

It really is amazing what you'll notice from the stage and what just flies right by the crowd.  There are times I know I blew a fill or something along those lines, and I'll shake my head, but to the crowd, nothing happened.  I guess as the musicians on stage, we're more familiar with the way the song SHOULD be, so we'll notice it long before a listener would (in most cases).

Being able to change up like that, without having to put much thought or spoken communication into it, to me, is one big sign of a band that plays really well together.  I'm fortunate to be in one of those, too.  My bass and lead guitar guys are really good at reading signals, as well as giving them.  I feel like when we go off track, it's the three of us that can get a song back where it needs to be in no time at all.


--
Shawn

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2019, 08:18:33 AM »
I got them off ebay and they were about $12 for a set of 4 - 14" 16" 18" 20"

I saw the same ones on Amazon for more and I think both were coming from China so I think they were the same.

This whole "band project/journey" has been interesting.  The differences from what the crowd notices to the band.

I know nothing ever lasts forever, but I really hope our band stays together for a long time.  It's so much work but it's so much fun and the experiences we have had have been great.  Learning how to play as a group and the dynamics that go into that can be so complex, but when it clicks......its like magic......it kind of feels like being a Disney



DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2019, 09:27:25 AM »
I'll have to look into those.  If I'm going with the GoEdrum trigger, it's going to be a bit of a wait anyway, so why not wait on the mutes, too?  No sense in rushing one if the other's gonna take some time.

My band is coming up on the 4th anniversary of our first public show.  I started with them in July of '15, and it was still in the very early stages.  Only the bandleader (our rhythm guitar and fill-in bass guy) has been in longer, LOL.  But this is the first band I've been in.  I've played since '99, but never publicly.

My wife says that I'm starting to get to the point that I've outgrown this band.  I'm still not quite sure.  We've had some lineup changes and bumps along the road.  I do wish we played out more, but it's the same thing that you said.  When we're on, we're REALLY on, and it's an amazing feeling. 


--
Shawn

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
4th Anniversary - That's Awesome. 

Our first show was last year Sept.  Including that we've only played out 6 times.  The amount of work involved we couldn't possibly do more that 1 a month taking a few months off here and there.  5-6 a year is just about right for us - unless we get a really good road crew, sound and light guy.  As light as we are with equipment it just is a monster effort to play out but well worth it.

The bass and guitar player have only played in a public band.  Our keyboard player only played in church choir.  Me......does drum on guitar hero count for anything....LOL.  In all seriousness, as funny as it sounds, that is exactly how I started.  That would be a great story if I ever made it big.

This Halloween show we are lucky in the sense we get to setup Friday night (its a local Rod and Gun club) and once they close they won't open until we want them to on Saturday.  We did this this past March at this place.

I can't see myself playing with any other people. We all get each other and for the most part friends first.   To be honest, I don't think I'm that good and probably wouldn't be able to play with any reasonably talented musicians, but I don't really care, all I care about is playing and consider myself lucky.

I hope wherever your musical road lead it is enjoyable and you are always to find that amazing feeling
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2019, 01:21:21 PM »
Hey, even drums on Guitar Hero takes good timekeeping! :)

It definitely is a lot of work to play out.  We don't have a crew or anything, unless we are playing somewhere that allows people under 18, then my son plays roadie for us.  Most of our setup can be done in an hour, and teardown is usually 45 minutes to an hour, depending on how hard we played. :)

Our first public show was like that.  It was at a winery owned by one of the members at the time, and we were able to go in the night before and set everything up.  Then it was just come in and play on show night.

I'm kinda the same as what you said.  I can't really imagine playing with another group.  We've been the group we are for two years now.  I do wish I had an outlet to play out more, I just enjoy being on the stage.  I seriously doubt my talent all the time, though.  I always think there's room for improvement.  We do try to keep it a family-type environment, though, and that's helped a lot along the way.

Same for you, I hope you always get what you look for out of your experience!


--
Shawn

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2019, 01:35:39 PM »
I finally had a chance to get some pics of the China converted with the foam/tape mode


DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline orion32

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2019, 08:27:04 AM »
Update......I'm hopefully posting up results and final details soon, unless I go down another rabbit hole  ;D

I took the converted 16" crash and china with me to a Halloween show our band played in this past Saturday.  With the exception of the mute ring popping off the crash halfway through the second set......... these performed well and I was very happy with them.

I kept the foam/tape mod on as my fear the mute ring would pop off happened.  I had it on as a test.  The mute ring stayed on the china.  The 16" modded crash I used as my main crash so it got a lot of use that night which could be the reason why it came off.

Last night I converted a 14" crash adding my last trigger and just used a mute ring.  The results......... there was a lot of 'rattle' after the initial decay.

So for these triggers, you'll need more 'muting' than an "elastic band" type mute ring can provide.

So....... I want to try a mute ring/foam underneath mode with black yoga matt.  I plan to cut 1" strips to match the circumference of each cymbal and put them under the mute ring with a little gaff tape to secure the foam and the ring.

Once I'm all done I'll try to wrap this thread up.  My reason for posting incrementally is hoping I could tap into the minds of some others to help come up with some ideas on how to make this project a success.
DM10
2 x 10" & 2 x 12" toms/snare with Prism Mesh practice heads
14" crash, 12" crash, 16" ride, A to E converted Zildjian L80 - 14" crash, 16" crash & china
high hat pro

Strike Pro (in the process of customizing with Zildjian L80 cymbals)

Offline Iggford

Re: Zildjian L80 A to E conversion
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2019, 10:36:40 AM »
Great that you had a fairly successful field test!

That's a little disheartening about the mute ring popping off.  I was hoping that would be the ultimate solution to getting everything to work.  I guess if it's not hard to slip back on, it's not a total loss, though!

I had hoped to add a little more input to this thread, as I was planning on trying a couple of things with my remaining Gen16 cymbals.  Unfortunately, we had a couple of unexpected expenses elsewhere and I had to put my projects on hold. 

I'll post anything new if I can get something up and running, either with the cymbals or my lighting project.  I want to try the GoEdrum triggers to see if they behave the same with the decay of the cymbals.

Hopefully soon!!


--
Shawn