Author Topic: hi-hat revisited  (Read 379 times)

Offline AlanK

hi-hat revisited
« on: January 17, 2019, 03:40:34 PM »
Hey gang, sorry to start a new Pro X hi-hat discussion but I did do a search and there were 15 pages of results, nothing for my question in the first few pages so I will start fresh..besides, I don't think my specific question has been addressed at length..

So, I've had the Pro X for a couple years now I think.. and decided to give the switcheroo another go, using one of the DM10X's crash cymbals in place of that piece of junk that comes with the add-on. The hole to thread your hat clutch through is smaller, but it goes through snuggly. Its quieter, love that. But response has to be tweaked and I haven't quite got it to a decent place yet. Also, the action is difficult.

Because there's the extra choke strip and other differences in build, it doesn't close as smoothly as the crappy top hat, there's a lot more air caught in between I seem to think, and just in general it takes a lot more pressure to get a full close. I also have played a bit with the hat trigger calibrations and things got better, but not great. So it takes a hell of a lot of effort to keep it closed tight during play, and barking isn't as easy as before. So, quieter playing but not great playability.

I also wonder if the cable that comes up through the hole in the bottom hat is snagging or just getting in the way during closing and making things more difficult. I will definitely spend some serious time trying to calibrate open and close settings..I'll manual dial each up and down both ways to see if it works any better.. but I do wonder if simply the mechanical change in size, shape and air flow between these two hat cymbals makes this mod a bit quirky.

Anybody have any advice or fixes to make the hat playability more user friendly when swapping in a good Alesis crash in place of the crap that came with the Pro X? Again, sorry if this was touched on in our previous discussions.. I know a lot of members quickly put on a better cymbal and we all revelled in how much quieter it made it, but I don't recall anyone talking about any negative repercussions as a result.

Thoughts? Happy new year y'all :)
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, 682 white mesh cone conversion, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Tama saddle, Panasonic noise cancelling headphones, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Iggford

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 02:05:43 PM »
Happy New Year to you, Alan!

I'm not saying this like I've tried it, but I wonder if it would work.  It's not so much a fix for an Alesis crash as it is a replacement option if you decided to go that route.

If you could get ahold of a Strike hi-hat pad, it may work better for you.  I use mine as a splash, as I've gone back to my Gen16 hats, but the Strike hi-hat is built pretty much identically to the Pro-X.  I've heard the controller is different internally, but as far as the bottom cymbal, it's the same as the Pro-X physically, so the top Strike hat wouldn't have any problem closing over the top of it. 

I personally couldn't get the response out of it that I wanted for a hi-hat, but it is certainly better than the top cymbal of the Pro-X.  I do know that it triggers well on the DM10, maybe a little better than on the Strike, so it may actually work better for you.  I requested the replacement spring for my Strike hat set to see if that solved my problems, and they sent me the whole set.  I have the extra pad on my DM10 kit for practice.  I'm using it with the RealHat pedal, though.

If I had my DM10 kit at home, I could dig out my Pro-X and try swapping these out for a definite answer, but it's at the practice space.  What I can do, though, is take my hi-hat stand to practice with the Pro-X and try it, but it will be a week or so before I'm there.  We're not practicing again until next week, before our gig next weekend.  If I can get over there before then, I'll try it out sooner and let you know what I find!   

Hope this rambling helps!


--
Shawn

Offline AlanK

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 02:34:23 PM »
Hey Shawn, happy new year too, and thanks for this info.. I'd love to try out the Strike top hat.. and all the cymbals that come with it. I'm still a few years away from buying a Strike kit. No rush at all, but when you do get to that next practice that would be interesting to hear if the setup is any better sounding.

Even with the nicer softer crash on as my top-hat it still makes a fair amount of noise. But I spent a while this weekend changing settings.. I think I've got the trigger wet with Spline 4 now, toyed a bit with threshhold, retrigger, sensitivity and I think I've now calibrated the open/close to 30/80 or something like that. It's responding fairly nice, I make a few adjustments to my playing style.. I'll have to set up a recording some time.. but I managed to spend 5 or 10 minutes just tapping away at it testing 16ths and other styles, was able to get the bark fairly controlled and get a decent chick out of it..also "painstakingly" can get it to register at least 6 voices going from fully closed to fully open.. key is to really REALLY concentrate on keeping your foot at the same level as you open (or close) to varying degrees.

I tend to find my forarm will end up resting on my left thigh in between upswings, and that extra weight really makes a difference on holding the left foot on the hi-hat peddle at the exact same place while reaming away on it.. with super concentration it's almost doable, but I wouldn't rely on this ability. I'm sure half the time my foot wavers a bit and the hat will make a more closed, or more open sound depending on how many nano-meters I move up or down by just the slightest movement on my part.

Loads of fun..
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, 682 white mesh cone conversion, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Tama saddle, Panasonic noise cancelling headphones, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Iggford

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 02:40:45 PM »
Alan,

Ok, I was able to connect my Strike hat (top cymbal) to my DM10 module and Pro-X setup.  It worked really well in my opinion.  Like I mentioned before, it seems like the Strike hat responds better with the DM10 than it does with the Strike.  It does open and close properly, and is quieter than the Pro-X by quite a bit.  Still a bit noisy, but nowhere near as bad as the Pro-X is. 

I always had trouble playing 16ths with the Strike hat, on the Strike kit.  It seemed a bit easier to do with the DM10 module.  I tried the Roland VH-11 also, and I really didn't get much better response out of it.  My best e-hat response was with a Roland CY-5 and a GoEdrum hi-hat controller.  But the problem was the CY-5 would rotate more than I liked because it wasn't really meant to go on a hi-hat stand.

After I switched to the Gen16s, I have tried to go back after reading some of the tips on improving the Strike and other hats, but once I got used to the way the Gen16 plays, I just can't do it.  Unfortunately, I bought the entire set and only like the hi-hat, so the other two cymbals are hanging on the wall above the kit! :) 

I think the hi-hat performance overall seemed a little better with the DM10, but it seems to improve each time they update the Strike.  And I'll more than likely continue to switch back every time there's an update, just to try it and see if I like it better than my current option.

I know my technique is probably totally wrong in all ways, but it gets the job done (lol).  My legs don't move much, I tend to use more of a stepping motion with my bass pedal.  It's probably made it a little harder to learn how to use the double-bass pedal I bought last year, but I'm getting there!  I do like the fact that it doesn't take much movement to get a different sound out of the A/E hi-hat, but it certainly made it harder to adjust when I tried out the full electronic ones again.


--
Shawn

Offline JonB300

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 06:52:39 PM »
Hi, new here and yet to post an intro, but thought I’d make a quick comment as I’ve just got a dm10 that had the pro x hats on it.

Really wasn’t good to start with as the triggers hadn’t been updated, with that done is was addressing the acoustic noise level. The original 12” hat was quieter but didn’t contact all of the pressure switches in the bottom hat due to the choke strip.

Looking around on the web, I settled for an eBay find (£20)of a lower spec single zone 12” cymbal that isn’t branded alesis but is the same as the lower spec ones (dm5/6). It has an exposed plastic bell but importantly is virtually flat underside. Tried this and with normal cluch felts, the top hat made good contact with all three ‘bumps’ on the lower hat and is no louder than the other DMPads.

Still some playing to be done with settings, but it’s loads better and really should of been used rather than that plastic dustbin lid they supply (especially as it’s a standard in-production piece).

Now-has anyone tried the chrome strike spring as I can’t believe the fsr is different to the strike when the old strike spring is identical (or has anyone measured the fsr resistances).

Sorry for the long post, but have been seeing lots of other suggestions, but this one is a real easy win for a replacement pro x top hat (hopefully a picture attached

Cheers. Jon

Offline AlanK

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 10:16:15 AM »
Hi Jon (and Shawn), thanks for both your replies. Jon, that's pretty cool finding a hat (cymbal) with a fairly flat bottom. I was wondering about those 3 bumps on the bottom hat. I assumed they were simply for softening the mating of the top and bottom. Do they have any electronics in them or underneath?

At one point I started sticking on bits of foam, I think I had spare strips from the kids' bicycle helmets.. to see if that would dampen some of the loud acoustic noise from the closing with the crappy top hat they provide with the Pro X. Made it harder to get a good closing though. I'm not loving the action and triggering since replacing that rigid top with one of my spare DM10X cymbals.. it's quieter but I haven't been able to dial in settings to make it function where I want it. I should really take more time to experiment with the hi-hat module settings, as well as looking at other cymbal pads like you've done, or just seeing if I can mod any part of top or bottom cymbal pad to get them to react better.

At times I seem to get the hats to sound and work well enough and I'm fairly happy, and other times it just sucks. Luckily for me, I bought a townhouse a couple years ago in between two others and it turns out both neighbours are really cool and tolerant, even tell me to play and jam with friends, doesn't bother them. So eventually I lucked into a used acoustic Yamaha Stage Advantage and squeezed it into my drumcave so most of the time I just jump on that to practice or jam now. But I still love my Alesis.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, 682 white mesh cone conversion, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Tama saddle, Panasonic noise cancelling headphones, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline JonB300

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 06:18:52 PM »
Hi, glad the info is of some use. The 3 bumps have pressure switches in them to register the fully closed position. The cheap pad I’m using has a step of 1 or 2mm but with normal clutch felts on the clutch there is enough movement for this not too matter and the movement when open feels a little more realistic.  The underside mounting isn’t the alesis ‘dome’ but is a ‘ridge’ so the pad can swing but not rotate. The small clutch felt fits against it just fine.

Got my eye on some 16”ers which will mean I can do away with the pro x pad completely and have a 12” splash, 14” and 2x 16” crash’s, 16” ride and a 14” triggera China (oh, and a cowbell- can never have enough cowbell).

Looking to wrap the pads with some blue sparkle tomorrow  ;D

Offline AlanK

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 10:09:35 AM »
Huh.. cool..I had no idea there were electronics or mechanics inside those bumps.. now I wanna open the hat up and take a look! Yep, you never can have enough cowbell.. or cymbals. I've added a couple extras (10 and 12" I think). I also found cheap sparkle borders on clearance at a Walmart and cut strips to wrap my pads as well. I'm using blue at the moment but they had a kind of salmon sparkle and I've got a woodgrain veneer roll that I used for a while. Maybe this weekend I'll try out the salmon sparkle for a change! Rock on bro
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, 682 white mesh cone conversion, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Tama saddle, Panasonic noise cancelling headphones, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Iggford

Re: hi-hat revisited
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 09:43:50 AM »
Wow, I was unaware of there being any electronics in that bottom hat. 

Jon, I haven't tried the new Strike spring with the Pro-X, but I've tried it with my Strike kit.  To me, there wasn't much difference, but I think I had already been spoiled on my Gen16 set by that point.  My biggest problem with the electronic hi-hats with the Strike is just the triggering of the cymbal itself. 

And no... There is NEVER enough cowbell!  :)


--
Shawn.