Author Topic: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg  (Read 3161 times)

Offline ChrisK

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2019, 09:03:59 PM »
-Pearl Emerge project have been started 6 years ago. The Pearl Emerge is closed architecture, there will be no update on sound or anything like this, all it's triggers are not compatible with others manufacture either the module, you are stuck for ever until it's discontinued. To my point of view, Emerge does not conform for today demand\future, sound update, feature update, compatible triggers, acoustic shell type design. The project have been started far long time ago and missed the today demand peak, technologies change fast.

-The emerge module power horse\expandability is inferior then the MIMIC.

-Pearl MIMIC is based on VST architecture, you should know each instruments have individual mic, which are individual multilayered instruments, ex: snare  have bottom mic, direct mic, overhead, room mic, just calculate all wav files! it's 5 instruments in 1 + all articulation (  rim click, side stick, side rim, rim, sided rim, center, rimshots, rimshots sided, and contains position sensing sound built in, not activated yet. Have most algo triggers on all manufacture and are made precisely, even piezo piezo switch algo, all roland hihat, include extra tight pressure hihat even on VH11, there is been like 5-6 firmware update to dates, new feature, improvement, and actual a new one in the progress. There will be sound update, full expansion pack, and later full blown multi-layer editor to create your own instruments.

ATM ATV using 3 cones, on side, give you the best dynamic range on the market, it spread the dynamic evenly and no hot spot in center, either not stick near the piezo peak in center.

MIMIC paired with ATV kit, Muzzio https://www.muzziodrums.com/drums , drum-tech is far more powerful then emerge at long terme.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:15:10 AM by ChrisK »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2019, 06:43:06 PM »
-Pearl Emerge project have been started 6 years ago. The Pearl Emerge is closed architecture, there will be no update on sound or anything like this, all it's triggers are not compatible with others manufacture either the module, you are stuck for ever until it's discontinued. To my point of view, Emerge does not conform for today demand\future, sound update, feature update, compatible triggers, acoustic shell type design. The project have been started far long time ago and missed the today demand peak, technologies change fast.

-The emerge module power horse\expandability is inferior then the MIMIC.

-Pearl MIMIC is based on VST architecture, you should know each instruments have individual mic, which are individual multilayered instruments, ex: snare  have bottom mic, direct mic, overhead, room mic, just calculate all wav files! it's 5 instruments in 1 + all articulation (  rim click, side stick, side rim, rim, sided rim, center, rimshots, rimshots sided, and contains position sensing sound built in, not activated yet. Have most algo triggers on all manufacture and are made precisely, even piezo piezo switch algo, all roland hihat, include extra tight pressure hihat even on VH11, there is been like 5-6 firmware update to dates, new feature, improvement, and actual a new one in the progress. There will be sound update, full expansion pack, and later full blown multi-layer editor to create your own instruments.

ATM ATV using 3 cones, on side, give you the best dynamic range on the market, it spread the dynamic evenly and no hot spot in center, either not stick near the piezo peak in center.

MIMIC paired with ATV kit, Muzzio https://www.muzziodrums.com/drums , drum-tech is far more powerful then emerge at long terme.

I doubt anyone here thinks the e/MERGE is better than the Mimic. However, I still find it odd that Pearl decided not to make a Mimic specific kit (meaning here's our new kit that we designed to be the perfect match to the Mimic). Pearl makes money selling product and I'm sorry but the vast majority of edrum players are not using Mimic. Most find the price to be much too high. If the e/MERGE hardware it really good, I can see this easily out selling the Mimic as far as units sold.

It's a matter of economics. The cheaper end of edrums is where the money is right now. That's why Alesis is doing so well. The number one selling edrum kit (at least at the end of 2018 from my understanding) is the Alesis Crimson. That's a $1000.00 drum set. That appears to be the sweet spot for people to buy into edrums. I know the DM10 MKII have been selling really good as well. Alesis has established themselves as the bang for your buck buy.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline ChrisK

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2019, 07:52:52 PM »
-Pearl Emerge project have been started 6 years ago. The Pearl Emerge is closed architecture, there will be no update on sound or anything like this, all it's triggers are not compatible with others manufacture either the module, you are stuck for ever until it's discontinued. To my point of view, Emerge does not conform for today demand\future, sound update, feature update, compatible triggers, acoustic shell type design. The project have been started far long time ago and missed the today demand peak, technologies change fast.

-The emerge module power horse\expandability is inferior then the MIMIC.

-Pearl MIMIC is based on VST architecture, you should know each instruments have individual mic, which are individual multilayered instruments, ex: snare  have bottom mic, direct mic, overhead, room mic, just calculate all wav files! it's 5 instruments in 1 + all articulation (  rim click, side stick, side rim, rim, sided rim, center, rimshots, rimshots sided, and contains position sensing sound built in, not activated yet. Have most algo triggers on all manufacture and are made precisely, even piezo piezo switch algo, all roland hihat, include extra tight pressure hihat even on VH11, there is been like 5-6 firmware update to dates, new feature, improvement, and actual a new one in the progress. There will be sound update, full expansion pack, and later full blown multi-layer editor to create your own instruments.

ATM ATV using 3 cones, on side, give you the best dynamic range on the market, it spread the dynamic evenly and no hot spot in center, either not stick near the piezo peak in center.

MIMIC paired with ATV kit, Muzzio https://www.muzziodrums.com/drums , drum-tech is far more powerful then emerge at long terme.

I doubt anyone here thinks the e/MERGE is better than the Mimic. However, I still find it odd that Pearl decided not to make a Mimic specific kit (meaning here's our new kit that we designed to be the perfect match to the Mimic). Pearl makes money selling product and I'm sorry but the vast majority of edrum players are not using Mimic. Most find the price to be much too high. If the e/MERGE hardware it really good, I can see this easily out selling the Mimic as far as units sold.

It's a matter of economics. The cheaper end of edrums is where the money is right now. That's why Alesis is doing so well. The number one selling edrum kit (at least at the end of 2018 from my understanding) is the Alesis Crimson. That's a $1000.00 drum set. That appears to be the sweet spot for people to buy into edrums. I know the DM10 MKII have been selling really good as well. Alesis has established themselves as the bang for your buck buy.

Concerning sales, you need to compare flagship price take more time at these price, low and mid always sell more, it's normal. Alesis have it's own customer for these price with all problem came with, many will never buy higher price flag such Roland or others, it's not Alesis customers can pay these higher price, but I saw people switching strike module to MIMIC and few others. But TD-17 is now grabbing everything at these price kit range, it's far superior then all Alesis low and mid range without any issue, reliable, sound cards built in, superior triggering and latency at 3MS. But I am afraid anything at these price are toy play, sound rubbish, machine gun, lack of nuance, dynamic, limited and basic.

Concerning KIT with mimic, true track pad have been discontinued for months now, maybe somethings in the pipe is happening, that would change everything. I don't understand why you think mimic is high price when TD-50 Module is 2500 USD? you can get MIMIC at 1800$-1900$, add a ATV kit at 2400$, it's about the price of Emerge, plugs acoustic conversions with mimic it will cost 3000 USD and so on, a 7 pieces shell kit with internal triggers it's about 1400 USD

I don't want to speculate but, Pearl changed in December mimic manufacture to get more for the high mass demand, if it would not sell, they would never make this major change,  hence I don't see Emerge kit bright future with it's design and concept, the price is not a factor here, but one is stuck with it's own design and not expandable until discontinued, I have seen many criticizing  it's design, kit size depth, colorful toyish module, red metal plate on cymbal on 4k kit should not be like this.

Ps: The latency on strike module is approx 10MS

« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 10:59:20 PM by ChrisK »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2019, 11:48:26 PM »
Concerning sales, you need to compare flagship price take more time at these price, low and mid always sell more, it's normal. Alesis have it's own customer for these price with all problem came with, many will never buy higher price flag such Roland or others, it's not Alesis customers can pay these higher price, but I saw people switching strike module to MIMIC and few others. But TD-17 is now grabbing everything at these price kit range, it's far superior then all Alesis low and mid range without any issue, reliable, sound cards built in, superior triggering and latency at 3MS. But I am afraid anything at these price are toy play, sound rubbish, machine gun, lack of nuance, dynamic, limited and basic.

Concerning KIT with mimic, true track pad have been discontinued for months now, maybe somethings in the pipe is happening, that would change everything. I don't understand why you think mimic is high price when TD-50 Module is 2500 USD? you can get MIMIC at 1800$-1900$, add a ATV kit at 2400$, it's about the price of Emerge, plugs acoustic conversions with mimic it will cost 3000 USD and so on, a 7 pieces shell kit with internal triggers it's about 1400 USD

I don't want to speculate but, Pearl changed in December mimic manufacture to get more for the high mass demand, if it would not sell, they would never make this major change,  hence I don't see Emerge kit bright future with it's design and concept, the price is not a factor here, but one is stuck with it's own design and not expandable until discontinued, I have seen many criticizing  it's design, kit size depth, colorful toyish module, red metal plate on cymbal on 4k kit should not be like this.

Ps: The latency on strike module is approx 10MS
Hi Chris,

I like your passion but, I find it odd that you feel the need to "defend" the Mimic as if someone is trashing it. No one is trashing the Mimic. I know you own one and think it is the gold standard. I'm glad you like it. Your are a great champion of the Pearl Mimic.

BTW, I just checked current pricing of the Mimic and the price that keeps coming up is $2199. I'm sorry but that is not affordable for most people. Yes, if you have a coupon you might be able to get a slightly better price but when people are new to edrums they are not going to pay $2000.00 plus for just a module. Most will not pay more than $1500.00 for an entire kit. And no I'm not saying the e/MERGE is a $1500.00 kit. I'm just pointing out where the sweet spot is that "most" people are willing to pay for an edrum kit (first and second time out).

And yes I'm very much aware that almost all kits in the sweet spot range feel toyish, machine gunning, lack nuance and is limited. I don't think this is a big revelation. Just because the Mimic can be update doesn't mean at some point it won't be discontinued. And right now the Mimic's future sound updates, full expansion packs, and later full blown multi-layer editor to create your own instruments is still just a future thing. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that everything you mention has already happened on the Alesis Strike module. And yes, I know the Strike is "only" 200 MB per kit. You do realize that the entire contents of the Roland TD-20 and Alesis DM10 was only 128 MB? I only point that out because many people still use those modules. So going to the Strike is still a big upgrade (not Mimic big, but still big). Heck, I remember when an edrum kit fit in 10 MB and that was a "good" sounding kit. Now every "serious" edrum player has become size snobs. "If it isn't gigabytes it's just a toy."  ::)

With all that said the e/MERGE still might be a winner with buyers. That statement does not mean it's better than the Mimic. It just means some people may like the e/MERGE enough to buy it.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 11:50:34 PM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline ChrisK

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2019, 12:30:01 AM »
Concerning sales, you need to compare flagship price take more time at these price, low and mid always sell more, it's normal. Alesis have it's own customer for these price with all problem came with, many will never buy higher price flag such Roland or others, it's not Alesis customers can pay these higher price, but I saw people switching strike module to MIMIC and few others. But TD-17 is now grabbing everything at these price kit range, it's far superior then all Alesis low and mid range without any issue, reliable, sound cards built in, superior triggering and latency at 3MS. But I am afraid anything at these price are toy play, sound rubbish, machine gun, lack of nuance, dynamic, limited and basic.

Concerning KIT with mimic, true track pad have been discontinued for months now, maybe somethings in the pipe is happening, that would change everything. I don't understand why you think mimic is high price when TD-50 Module is 2500 USD? you can get MIMIC at 1800$-1900$, add a ATV kit at 2400$, it's about the price of Emerge, plugs acoustic conversions with mimic it will cost 3000 USD and so on, a 7 pieces shell kit with internal triggers it's about 1400 USD

I don't want to speculate but, Pearl changed in December mimic manufacture to get more for the high mass demand, if it would not sell, they would never make this major change,  hence I don't see Emerge kit bright future with it's design and concept, the price is not a factor here, but one is stuck with it's own design and not expandable until discontinued, I have seen many criticizing  it's design, kit size depth, colorful toyish module, red metal plate on cymbal on 4k kit should not be like this.

Ps: The latency on strike module is approx 10MS
Hi Chris,

I like your passion but, I find it odd that you feel the need to "defend" the Mimic as if someone is trashing it. No one is trashing the Mimic. I know you own one and think it is the gold standard. I'm glad you like it. Your are a great champion of the Pearl Mimic.

BTW, I just checked current pricing of the Mimic and the price that keeps coming up is $2199. I'm sorry but that is not affordable for most people. Yes, if you have a coupon you might be able to get a slightly better price but when people are new to edrums they are not going to pay $2000.00 plus for just a module. Most will not pay more than $1500.00 for an entire kit. And no I'm not saying the e/MERGE is a $1500.00 kit. I'm just pointing out where the sweet spot is that "most" people are willing to pay for an edrum kit (first and second time out).

And yes I'm very much aware that almost all kits in the sweet spot range feel toyish, machine gunning, lack nuance and is limited. I don't think this is a big revelation. Just because the Mimic can be update doesn't mean at some point it won't be discontinued. And right now the Mimic's future sound updates, full expansion packs, and later full blown multi-layer editor to create your own instruments is still just a future thing. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that everything you mention has already happened on the Alesis Strike module. And yes, I know the Strike is "only" 200 MB per kit. You do realize that the entire contents of the Roland TD-20 and Alesis DM10 was only 128 MB? I only point that out because many people still use those modules. So going to the Strike is still a big upgrade (not Mimic big, but still big). Heck, I remember when an edrum kit fit in 10 MB and that was a "good" sounding kit. Now every "serious" edrum player as become size snobs. "If it isn't gigabytes it's just a toy."  ::)

With all that said the e/MERGE still might be a winner with buyers. That statement does not mean it's better than the Mimic. It just means some people may like the e/MERGE enough to buy it.

I think you mixed too much things here, I was talking on emerge, sales, lower kit entry first kit, the market have been always like this low and higher price, in fact Roland is the best seller out there, despite their high price they sell tons, my point was about Emerge is nothing revolutionary for that price they should had set it at 3000$, there is already Roland, Alesis, Yamaha, I am on many social media and I see the tendency, they all asking flexibility, acoustic look, and importing sound, emerge is "out of this scope for 2019" as brand new kit design, just think a bit this kits and feature in 3 years, will be outdated already, Alesis strike look better then the Emerge and have better flexibility but with some problems design. For the price online there is a rules, they must be all the same for competitor higher retailers store and lower shop size, on MIMIC lowest you can get with coupon is 1745$- 1800, and at that price at 1900 anytime without coupon, you need to call to get the real price and others store can match price. The things I said on mimic concerning new stuff it's actually been stated before and recently from the team.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 12:41:20 AM by ChrisK »

Offline Purpledc

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2019, 08:52:15 AM »
I don't see the emerge being as successful in the long run.  I simply don't think a closed system comprised of proprietary pads is going to appeal to many people.   Maybe for those guys who value expression more than anything else.  But I see more people heading for universal triggering systems.   The cheapest iteration of the emerge is $4000.   The mimic can be bought for half that maybe even a little less with a coupon and then you still have 2$2000 to buy any pads of their choosing.   If anything I see the mimic as a value in comparison.    If you cant afford $4000 for your own custom kit made specifically for you, you dont have $4000 for the emerge.   It is by no means at all a cost effective alternative to the mimic. 

I don't think anyone has become a size snob.   I think people are just sick of being bent over a barrel and are now letting actual facts and not feelings dictate their buying habits.   They don't want small kits.  They don't want underpowered modules.  Yeah crimsons probably outsell all other edrums on a scale of 10-1.   This mirrors the guitar market where low end guitars outsell expensive models 10-1.   But that is common in any hobby.   Entry level instruments sell a lot because its the first thing a parent goes to when their kid says they want to play X instrument.  But that is NOT indicative of the musician wanting a professional product.   


Maybe if you only play alesis, and for the most part hang out with other alesis owners the numbers look a little more skewed.  But when i see a "which module are you playing"  I am always seeing the mimic at the top of the list.  Its selling very well.  So well the supply for awhile dried up and they had to take measures to ensure a steady supply.   Hell I started with a nitro,  had a strike 2 months later and a year after than bought the mimic.  You find a way to make something a reality if you have a passion for it.   Everyones situation is different.   But when comparing the sales of flagship gear the last thing you do is compare it to products that arent even in its lane.   By that metric the toyota corolla is the car everyone wants to drive.   

As for the mimic not having dedicated pads?  Thats precisely the point.  It puts you in control of your kit.  You make the kit.  The universal triggering ensures you get the best possible results no matter your choice of accompanying equipment.   And its really something that needs to be not only experienced but also understood to appreciate.  Beginners may not sit on the mimic and understand why it cost $2000.  But you learn how to use it and why it does things the way it does and you realize relatively quickly that there really is nothing that compares.  Even the TD50 IMHO cant touch it.   That kit may have digital ride and snare but to me it needs them or else it would be considered a step backwards compared to the 30.     

I was a 30 year long guitarist who decided to all but give it up and move to drums.  That put me in the unique position to have all ready developed an ear.   And I quickly discovered that no ekit in the sub $2000 price bracket was going to supply the realism I needed.  Even after having the strike for a year and dealing with its issues I was able to experience its own shortcomings.  The biggest issue I have with that kit is the lack of onboard sound processing.  The eq and compression is extremely limited.   Hell the dm10mk2 has more eq and compression options.   And in its case having a complete kit was all for not because I ended up replacing 90% of it because it just didnt perform.  The module is great.   But I hate the cymbals and hi hat even on their best day.   


All in all only time will tell about the emerge.  But like most things history usually repeats itself.   And one thing about closed systems is that they are a niche within a niche within a niche.   They target a very small percentage of the market.  And even among the people who are going to spend that kind of money on a kit I think would be hard pressed to find much appealing about the emerge from a practicallity standpoint.  To me its the kit for the older gentleman who wants a quiet kit but who needs acoustic like expression above all else.   The retired guy, whos wife said "no harley".      And I simply dont believe that you should be using entry level sales of any product as the metric in which to measure what people actually want.    Because its not really represetative of the serious musician.





Offline Hellfire

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2019, 01:13:25 PM »
I don't see the emerge being as successful in the long run.  I simply don't think a closed system comprised of proprietary pads is going to appeal to many people.   Maybe for those guys who value expression more than anything else.  But I see more people heading for universal triggering systems.   The cheapest iteration of the emerge is $4000.   The mimic can be bought for half that maybe even a little less with a coupon and then you still have 2$2000 to buy any pads of their choosing.   If anything I see the mimic as a value in comparison.    If you cant afford $4000 for your own custom kit made specifically for you, you dont have $4000 for the emerge.   It is by no means at all a cost effective alternative to the mimic.

I don't believe it to be a cost effective alternative to the Mimic either. Keep in mind some people don't like to piece meal edrums. Yes, I know you can put together a far superior kit piece meal, but some just don't like doing that. As far as how well it sells, only time will tell. I personally don't think the eMERGE offers enough at that price range to be successful, but who knows.

I don't think anyone has become a size snob.   I think people are just sick of being bent over a barrel and are now letting actual facts and not feelings dictate their buying habits.   They don't want small kits.  They don't want underpowered modules.  Yeah crimsons probably outsell all other edrums on a scale of 10-1.   This mirrors the guitar market where low end guitars outsell expensive models 10-1.   But that is common in any hobby.   Entry level instruments sell a lot because its the first thing a parent goes to when their kid says they want to play X instrument.  But that is NOT indicative of the musician wanting a professional product.

Nobody likes being bent over a barrel and the only company that did this (or at least was accused of do this) was really Roland after all they held the patents for their own brand of triggering that everyone states as "industry standard" now. I agree with the rest of your statement. Just keep in mind that "entry level" instruments are the bread and butter of a company right now. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

Maybe if you only play alesis, and for the most part hang out with other alesis owners the numbers look a little more skewed.

Not skewed, actually numbers. You stated yourself that "entry level sell more.

But when i see a "which module are you playing"  I am always seeing the mimic at the top of the list.  Its selling very well.  So well the supply for awhile dried up and they had to take measures to ensure a steady supply.   Hell I started with a nitro,  had a strike 2 months later and a year after than bought the mimic.  You find a way to make something a reality if you have a passion for it.   Everyones situation is different.   But when comparing the sales of flagship gear the last thing you do is compare it to products that arent even in its lane.   By that metric the toyota corolla is the car everyone wants to drive.

It was not my intention to compare apples vs. oranges. I was trying to point that "complete Kits" tend to sell better than individual modules. Hence, why I thought it odd that Pearl doesn't focus more on a known good product like the Mimic and sell an entire kit.
 
As for the mimic not having dedicated pads?  Thats precisely the point.  It puts you in control of your kit.  You make the kit.  The universal triggering ensures you get the best possible results no matter your choice of accompanying equipment.   And its really something that needs to be not only experienced but also understood to appreciate.  Beginners may not sit on the mimic and understand why it cost $2000.  But you learn how to use it and why it does things the way it does and you realize relatively quickly that there really is nothing that compares.  Even the TD50 IMHO cant touch it.   That kit may have digital ride and snare but to me it needs them or else it would be considered a step backwards compared to the 30.

Don't think anyone could disagree with you but again, some don't like piecing together kits. BTW, just so you know what you just described is almost word for word what "MegaDrum" owners would say about their system.

I was a 30 year long guitarist who decided to all but give it up and move to drums.  That put me in the unique position to have all ready developed an ear.   And I quickly discovered that no ekit in the sub $2000 price bracket was going to supply the realism I needed.  Even after having the strike for a year and dealing with its issues I was able to experience its own shortcomings.  The biggest issue I have with that kit is the lack of onboard sound processing.  The eq and compression is extremely limited.   Hell the dm10mk2 has more eq and compression options.   And in its case having a complete kit was all for not because I ended up replacing 90% of it because it just didnt perform.  The module is great.   But I hate the cymbals and hi hat even on their best day.   

I'm not happy with the Alesis Strike either as far as quality control. Alesis has real quality control issues.

As a matter of fact do you know why this site exists? I knew that Alesis edrums were a great price but lacked on robustness and/or quality control. This site was set up to help those with more affordable edrums module/kits to get the most out of their purchase. Overtime it has grown.

All in all only time will tell about the emerge.  But like most things history usually repeats itself.   And one thing about closed systems is that they are a niche within a niche within a niche.   They target a very small percentage of the market.  And even among the people who are going to spend that kind of money on a kit I think would be hard pressed to find much appealing about the emerge from a practicallity standpoint.  To me its the kit for the older gentleman who wants a quiet kit but who needs acoustic like expression above all else.   The retired guy, whos wife said "no harley".      And I simply dont believe that you should be using entry level sales of any product as the metric in which to measure what people actually want.    Because its not really represetative of the serious musician.

Just remember that not all "serious musician" have the money to acquire what you see and the only real solution for serious musicians. You might be right and maybe that retired guy might buy the e/MERGE.  :D
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Purpledc

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2019, 05:44:55 PM »
I don't see the emerge being as successful in the long run.  I simply don't think a closed system comprised of proprietary pads is going to appeal to many people.   Maybe for those guys who value expression more than anything else.  But I see more people heading for universal triggering systems.   The cheapest iteration of the emerge is $4000.   The mimic can be bought for half that maybe even a little less with a coupon and then you still have 2$2000 to buy any pads of their choosing.   If anything I see the mimic as a value in comparison.    If you cant afford $4000 for your own custom kit made specifically for you, you dont have $4000 for the emerge.   It is by no means at all a cost effective alternative to the mimic.

I don't believe it to be a cost effective alternative to the Mimic either. Keep in mind some people don't like to piece meal edrums. Yes, I know you can put together a far superior kit piece meal, but some just don't like doing that. As far as how well it sells, only time will tell. I personally don't think the eMERGE offers enough at that price range to be successful, but who knows.

I don't think anyone has become a size snob.   I think people are just sick of being bent over a barrel and are now letting actual facts and not feelings dictate their buying habits.   They don't want small kits.  They don't want underpowered modules.  Yeah crimsons probably outsell all other edrums on a scale of 10-1.   This mirrors the guitar market where low end guitars outsell expensive models 10-1.   But that is common in any hobby.   Entry level instruments sell a lot because its the first thing a parent goes to when their kid says they want to play X instrument.  But that is NOT indicative of the musician wanting a professional product.

Nobody likes being bent over a barrel and the only company that did this (or at least was accused of do this) was really Roland after all they held the patents for their own brand of triggering that everyone states as "industry standard" now. I agree with the rest of your statement. Just keep in mind that "entry level" instruments are the bread and butter of a company right now. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

Maybe if you only play alesis, and for the most part hang out with other alesis owners the numbers look a little more skewed.

Not skewed, actually numbers. You stated yourself that "entry level sell more.

But when i see a "which module are you playing"  I am always seeing the mimic at the top of the list.  Its selling very well.  So well the supply for awhile dried up and they had to take measures to ensure a steady supply.   Hell I started with a nitro,  had a strike 2 months later and a year after than bought the mimic.  You find a way to make something a reality if you have a passion for it.   Everyones situation is different.   But when comparing the sales of flagship gear the last thing you do is compare it to products that arent even in its lane.   By that metric the toyota corolla is the car everyone wants to drive.

It was not my intention to compare apples vs. oranges. I was trying to point that "complete Kits" tend to sell better than individual modules. Hence, why I thought it odd that Pearl doesn't focus more on a known good product like the Mimic and sell an entire kit.
 
As for the mimic not having dedicated pads?  Thats precisely the point.  It puts you in control of your kit.  You make the kit.  The universal triggering ensures you get the best possible results no matter your choice of accompanying equipment.   And its really something that needs to be not only experienced but also understood to appreciate.  Beginners may not sit on the mimic and understand why it cost $2000.  But you learn how to use it and why it does things the way it does and you realize relatively quickly that there really is nothing that compares.  Even the TD50 IMHO cant touch it.   That kit may have digital ride and snare but to me it needs them or else it would be considered a step backwards compared to the 30.

Don't think anyone could disagree with you but again, some don't like piecing together kits. BTW, just so you know what you just described is almost word for word what "MegaDrum" owners would say about their system.

I was a 30 year long guitarist who decided to all but give it up and move to drums.  That put me in the unique position to have all ready developed an ear.   And I quickly discovered that no ekit in the sub $2000 price bracket was going to supply the realism I needed.  Even after having the strike for a year and dealing with its issues I was able to experience its own shortcomings.  The biggest issue I have with that kit is the lack of onboard sound processing.  The eq and compression is extremely limited.   Hell the dm10mk2 has more eq and compression options.   And in its case having a complete kit was all for not because I ended up replacing 90% of it because it just didnt perform.  The module is great.   But I hate the cymbals and hi hat even on their best day.   

I'm not happy with the Alesis Strike either as far as quality control. Alesis has real quality control issues.

As a matter of fact do you know why this site exists? I knew that Alesis edrums were a great price but lacked on robustness and/or quality control. This site was set up to help those with more affordable edrums module/kits to get the most out of their purchase. Overtime it has grown.

All in all only time will tell about the emerge.  But like most things history usually repeats itself.   And one thing about closed systems is that they are a niche within a niche within a niche.   They target a very small percentage of the market.  And even among the people who are going to spend that kind of money on a kit I think would be hard pressed to find much appealing about the emerge from a practicallity standpoint.  To me its the kit for the older gentleman who wants a quiet kit but who needs acoustic like expression above all else.   The retired guy, whos wife said "no harley".      And I simply dont believe that you should be using entry level sales of any product as the metric in which to measure what people actually want.    Because its not really represetative of the serious musician.

Just remember that not all "serious musician" have the money to acquire what you see and the only real solution for serious musicians. You might be right and maybe that retired guy might buy the e/MERGE.  :D


sorry in advance.  I don't have the internets skillz to break down a post like you so please bare with me.  And in advance thank you for being able to debate like an adult.  I love conversations like this.  On FB too many "feelings".   But....


You know I actually didn't like piecing together kits either.  But unfortunately being as picky as I am I have not found a company that makes an all inclusive kit that truly delivers on all fronts.  So Even when I thought I bought my dream kit I end up replacing this or that just because its the only way to get the results I desire.  And I just changed my mindset because it was easier for me to deal with ocd over not having a complete single origin kit rather than dealing with this or that, that is causing me grief. 

As for the prices and being bent over a barrel I am a bit of a pessimist.   I think all edrum gear for the most part is overpriced.  Roland is well known for it though I definitely agree.  But I would still disagree on your statement that the prices are not skewed.  Because there are two ways to make money in retail.   Low cost units that you sell in quantity to return a profit, or you sell a high cost item in lower quantities.   You can either sell 1000 kits at a $1000 a pop or you can sell 500 modules at $2000 a pop.  And as they say work smarter not harder.  Now Yes there is probably less cost to produce a cheaper kit. But more is likely put out in shipping rates and extra warranty fulfillment.  Either way, its safe to say they both are turning a decent profit or it wouldn't be made I would think.

But again on the mimic I think it makes perfect sense for them not to have a complete kit.  Like I said its its claim to fame.  And the mimic really is a acoustic drum studio.  I mean if we are talking price it makes even more sense.  Because a dude may be able to swing buying a mimic to make is forge the best damn forge in existence.  But he may not be able to swing a $2000 kit plus the hi end pads to match the high end module.  I think once you start talking about flagship kits the rules start to change just because of the huge prices involved.

And I agree.  Not all serious musicians have the money to be able to buy what they want.  But I also think there are a lot of guys who make the sacrifices in other parts of their life.  That is how I did it. I consolidated 5 hobbies into 1 and instead of a $2000 kit, I have a $10,000 kit.  Or at least that's what it will be when my new set is complete.  I get that's some cant, at this moment.  Hell, I was one of them.  And may be again one day.  But I am trying to build my forever kit.  The kit I keep no matter what unless it breaks.  Yeah I know, "good luck with that, lol"


Offline Iggford

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2019, 02:56:38 PM »
But at least you have the basis of your "forever kit."  Chances are, it's not going to break all at once, so now, especially if you're short on cash, you are likely only going to have to put a fraction of the money in to fix things here or there.  That's the point I'm working toward now.  Getting that "forever kit."

I love my Strike kit, and the module has served me VERY well over the last year or so.  I still wonder quite frequently if it's time to go to the Mimic, though.  I'd still keep the Strike as a backup, but there's just something about the Pearl that keeps drawing me in.

I started off with very little in the funds department, until I had saved enough to upgrade my DM10 module to a Mimic or buy the Strike.  I opted for the Strike mainly because I was getting the full kit, and I could leave my DM10 kit at the practice house and not have to transport an entire kit back and forth twice a week.  I still wanted to be able to play at home.  So, I feel I made the smarter choice for my needs.

I've since figured out how to work the system a little and buy from these places with the no-interest financing.  I can add a part if I need to, pay on it until gigs add up enough to pay it off, then work on the next part.  It's what's worked for me.  For my $2,300 Strike Pro, I've probably got another $1,500 in it by now.  That's just the Gen16 pack and VH11 that I bought. 

I still have both my previous e-kits, and I've swapped parts in and out from all three just to get what works for two complete kits, one for practice and one for home/gigs.  My gigging kit is what I would consider the main interest, though. 


--
Shawn


Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2019, 11:44:17 PM »
Good point, Iggford. In fact, I often come back to one major thing every time I get myself worked into a frenzy about upgrading from my beloved DM10X Mesh kit that has treated me so well for two years so far: Portability.

I show my method of transporting this kit around in my Cases - My Lucky Score topic, and whenever I think about a kit with larger or thicker shells, I'm reminded of why I love these DM10 shells so much - and that would also apply to the newer (or older) DM10, Command, and other kits too.

So instead of getting depressed, I take yet another look at (and listen to) my DM10 and seem to always find ways to improve either my sound, setup, or whatever else might bother me - or at least grab my interest.

So I guess, at this point... I think I've already found my "Forever Kit", and I'm grateful for that! I do still plan on getting a Strike kit, and other fun things, maybe even more lits as I go along... but I really have no urgent need for any of it - just a good maintenance regiment, repair skills, and keep an eye out for a time when I can get my hands on a spare DM10/Pearl REDbox module just in case my module ever goes. But I keep it in its original box wrapped in its original foamy envelop thingy whenever it's not set up to play, and I keep the whole kit covered with a king-size black sheet while it's set up, but not being played. It's in amazing condition, even though I gig with it constantly!

(one of the pics from my topic)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 11:49:53 PM by Dartanbeck »
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2019, 12:10:21 AM »
And I agree.  Not all serious musicians have the money to be able to buy what they want.  But I also think there are a lot of guys who make the sacrifices in other parts of their life.  That is how I did it. I consolidated 5 hobbies into 1 and instead of a $2000 kit, I have a $10,000 kit.  Or at least that's what it will be when my new set is complete.  I get that's some cant, at this moment.  Hell, I was one of them.  And may be again one day.  But I am trying to build my forever kit.  The kit I keep no matter what unless it breaks.  Yeah I know, "good luck with that, lol"

Absolutely.
As an acoustic drummer, and a poor ($) one at that, I've only owned two acoustic kits over more than thirty years of doing paying gigs. The one I started with, an old tiger-striped Ludwig that was actually two identical kits made into a larger kit, and then many years later finding an amazing (AMAZING) deal on a high-end, limited edition Yamaha Turbo Tour kit, which I still have twenty-some years later.

When I bought my DM10, I knew it wasn't flagship. I downloaded the manual from Alesis and studied it for a while. Darn, this thing comes with a LOT of sounds built in... that's what I want. Nice, full kit of pads... let's get this thing.

I did an ornate stone patio and several small dried river bed lawnscapes for it.

Point is, acoustic kits can get really expensive too. Why do more pros use Roland kits over Alesis? Maybe it's all about the price... who knows. When I worked at Guitar Center a  l o n g  time ago, Alesis was really turning heads with the quality of sounds coming out of their inexpensive drum machines. I remembered that like it was yesterday when I saw the DM10X Mesh kit for the first time, which was when I first started looking at going e-drum, which was also at the end of the DM10 of that era.

That same singer that funded this DM10 for me was recently talking about the new Roland kits. "Not interested", I told him. I love my Alesis, and it sounds Fantastic live! It took me a lot of tweaking to get it to where it is now. But I promise that Neil Peart's Rolands were not an out-of-the-box affair either.

Just because things are more expensive and/or come with amazing different sounds, doesn't ever mean that they're plug n' play by any means.

We're damned lucky here to have the incredibly intelligent e-drummers who have been here sharing advice for years and years (as well as new) - for that advice doesn't just apply to our Alesis kits, but to any e-drum purchase we might make. Why? Because no two drummers are truly alike.
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2019, 12:12:25 AM »
...and mine was just over a $Grand! ;)
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline ChrisK

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2019, 03:29:38 PM »
  Why do more pros use Roland kits over Alesis? Maybe it's all about the price...

Not only pro but many local gig player and home players, they do not break easily, reliable 6 years+, much more plugs and play, easy to use, they are designed and tested correctly + solid quality control, which add to the cost. There is no such things on Alesis product in all process, example strike kit is far from even plugs and play kit, lots of trigger setting post, many defect parts\module, bad engineered triggers. never seen these amount of  post on all Roland social media for one example. There is big confidence with Roland compare to Alesis, on the market 20+ years and more,  the price don't matter, TD30K flagship sold a least 10k the first years of the release, which is 3x profit compare to lower end kit price, expand it to 5 years, count all sales and profit.





« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 05:01:07 PM by ChrisK »

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Pearl e/MERGE Kit powered by Korg
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2019, 09:52:08 PM »
That's awesome... and really good to know. I don't have any places around here to try them out. I heard some Roland recording on YouTube, and just didn't care for the sound compared to my trusty DM10X Mesh kit... but that could be anything.

I'm really happy with my particular DM10. Maybe I just got lucky? I love the sound, the feel, the simplicity...

...but it truly is refreshing to hear that the Roland kits are worth their weight. They seem (to me) to have a decent price range if they are indeed "Pro" level gear - and I'm happy, this DM10 being a test to see if I'd enjoy going all-e-drums, that mine is holding up to three 4 hour gigs each month for two years now, and the pessimistic audience learned to love the sound right from the first song.

I've been in the drum retail industry in the 90's (Guitar Center) and got to learn a bit about MIDI and dialing in sound modules, so it wasn't even the slightest bit of displeasure for me to dial in this awesome little module. Happy owner = me!
Alesis DM10X Mesh