Author Topic: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?  (Read 2743 times)

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2018, 12:16:31 PM »
I was referring to the mimic loading VSTís in their native format. I did not think it could be done and still had to be converted. I am aware of the drumit3 but the AD2 kits sound fine and can be tweaked easily in either the module or thru SDSE. The SDSE tweaking method is a little timely though. I prefer to tweak things in the module and save them back to SDSE in a kit bank. Then you can have multiple  32gb SD cards with different kit banks if you desire. Thatís a lot of kits. I am sure you can do similar things and maybe more so with the mimic from what I can tell and it is probably the best module on the market, but you pay a high price for it. I can still get near the same results using most VSTís or close at almost a third of the cost. Granted itís interface is not near as nice as the mimicís but once things are dialed in itís every bit as effective as the mimic if converting VSTís and using their sounds for your kits. And best of all you get away from having a computer connected when playing. Also the AD2 kits I use in the drummit3 sound pretty close to the computer connected version of AD2.

On another note, the perfect module (to me anyway) has not been created yet. It seems since all the VST software companies can write to either Mac OS or Windows (no copyright issues) and with some awesome audio interfaces on the market, that a company could come up with a module that has universal pad interface running on a windows or Mac OS platform (both , your choice) and have at least the same inputs and outputs as the mimic, and be able to load VSTís directly from the internet (just like you do on a laptop) , be able to adjust all parameters I.e. sensitivity, crosstalk etc., be able to create different mixes for different outputs similar to iConnect  or focus right audio interfaces, all in one box. Also you could get away from each modules own proprietary systems and sample formats. It would need a couple of physical multi function knobs for different mix volumes on the fly and have a touch screen similar to at least an iPad Air. And finally a multi core processor, large really fast solid state hard drive, some sort of midi I/o (just in case), usb, thunderbolt, Ethernet, WiFi, Bluetooth, and loads of memory, 48hz at 24 bit and so on. To me that would be a perfect module. All of this currently exists but each in their own boxes. I guess I could duck tape them all together. And finally at a decent price point, like no more than $1500. I can dream.

Correct you cannot use native vst format with any module,  all vst are build differently, on how they works, with setting and algorithm and format for the sound etc.  Building module from what you told, no company will do it, because it will end up lots more expensive, then a simple midi module and laptop, you will still need to buy the vst, license, and all windows\mac stuff mixed, there is no real advantage, it will be the same. If you want stability, great latency, you need to use module with it's own design, mixing lots of thing from others will get issue and nightmare supports.

The price of mimic is higher price, yes, but if you sold your old device and things you are not using, it could be shrink to half price. People often buy many lower cost items 500usd, 800usd, 300usd etc, and accumulate them end up of 3000\4000USD of gear.  Size of mimic 128gb ssd in reality is 512GB for native wav files (from sdse for example), because it use vst format which is 3 for 1, mimic is a virtual VST with all their real native setting\option, multichannel microphone, and all stuff, precise triggering using around 4000 velocity not 127, super low latency 4ms, fast loading kits, no computer can run at that speed with a 800$ sound cards RME, computer and software add latency extra + midi module latency, average people do run around 7ms\10ms on computer with round trip in and out, vst often take average 8 second to load a single kits, that add to others factor.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 12:43:42 PM by ChrisK »

Offline Rmiller

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2018, 02:22:13 PM »
I understand that proprietary systems can be designed and tailored to just about eliminate latency, but my point is that if all these different VSTís can be written to one OS, then be channeled thru a good audio interface with minimal latency and produce really good sounds, I would think a module could be made to handle it all with todayís resources. We already purchase liscences now so thatís not really an issue. I still agree the Mimic is the closest thing out there to being just right but can still be improved upon with its layering and 3rd party VST interface. Iím sure SD5 is great but is still a limited choice. The real problem why companies are stifled is because of lawyers and lawsuits. Even Apple and Microsoft went thru their court cases over gui in the early 90ís.
Obviously price is driven by market share and a product's universe. Example: computers are plentiful with lots of competition which have brought prices way down, but how much demand is out there (comparatively speaking) for drum modules. Development is expensive and many companies donít want to expend the resources on such a small market when they can use outdated technology and develop limited proprietary stuff that can be cheap to semi expensive. The companies with deeper pockets like Pearl or Roland produce a higher end module but still wonít totally commit. Just my take on the matter. However I am thankful the edrum market has come as far as it has just in the last ten years. There is some really cool stuff nowadays.
  Ok, I am really rambling now. I need to stay on topic. Oh, I don't have any old stuff to sell except my DM10 module. I might have a hard time doing that. I love my iConnect 4 audio interface connected to my computer. Works great with Logic Pro X on my MacBook Pro for recording etc and good sound output.  For live sound, everything goes to a 12 channel mixer with a limiter/compressor and an EQ then to speaker system. The audio interface is also connected to the mixer and works well when recording and listening to playbacks in Logic or just hearing thru it live . All I do is turn down some Faders and turn up others. AD2 triggers really well thru Logic and I don't ever hear any latency. The HiHat can be troublesome at times though. What started all this was not having to rely on my computer for live play using AD2, thus either the Strike, drummit3, or the Mimic, but as I said before the Mimic is at a high price point and overkill for what I need/want. My drum setup are all Laurin's (snare,4toms, bass and  mix of cymbal pads 4 crashes and ride. My hats are muted sabians with jman stealth triggers on a tama iron cobra hihat stand using an alesis pro x controller with some mods to the spring system. (I think I already said this)It triggers ok but it could be better. The action on the hit hat cymbals are great. Still looking for a better controller though. Anyway!!!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 05:11:15 PM by Rmiller »

Offline Purpledc

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2018, 05:27:46 PM »

That same drumit software can be used to convert the files for the alesis strike.  You can use the 2box sdse software to convert VST samples into useable format for the Alesis strike.  Its what I used to get addictive drum samples onto my strike module.   But its actually much simpler and IMHO better to use the strike editor software. 

Some are scoffing at the idea of using Wav. files.  But the strike can one up even the drumit.  Sure you can grab things directly from a VST.  But so can the alesis.   And I bet they find a way to do the same with with the load times as the source samples are also in the strike.  They need to be.  So i wouldnt doubt if they find a work around.

Here is the thing.  Most people need to play this kit to understand it.  people talk about the load times.  But it really doesn't matter.  I am playing my kit right now.  And I literally can switch to any kit in my library and it is 100% playable instantly.   I kid you not you switch to any kit from any position and the kit is instantly playable.    The load times really have nothing to do with being able to play the kit.   All it really seems designed to do is to make sure you don't save any edits or trigger settings and try to save them before they are fully loaded.  Because it saves before the samples have completely loaded.   I really do thing the alesis works the same way as the source samples need to be kept in the library after an instrument is made.  So it needs those source samples to work with just like the drummit.  But I promise you, you can play a kit immediately.  There is no waiting at all.   The problem is people see that status bar and they think it means they cant play or wont have all the pads active until its done.  That is not the case.  Just ignore it and play you will never see a difference.

The loading time cancel all FX used on that kits, reverb, eq, compression etc.. the fx return when the loading time is finished, it take about 25sec for the limit of 200mb full kits.

There is few module can layers instruments, td-50 can layers all instrument together, and with imported wav, with custom velocity setting. MIMIC can layer snare and kick with any sound and imported wav.


It doesn't seem to be that way with mine.  I run a lot of compression on most of my user kits.  All of them in fact.   I don't run it on my cymbals.  But the reverb and the compression on mine is immediate.   I seriously don't have any of the issues you just described.   And I know other modules can layer sounds.  My point was that I don't think many people realize just how much you can do with the strike module.  I think as far as layering and what you can do with raw samples from libraries the strike does it better. At least for me.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 05:32:18 PM by Purpledc »

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2018, 12:49:08 PM »
I asked few people the loading affect sample that are not loaded, toms and cymbal get delayed to be audible same with the effect, if you are using different sample from each kits there will be difference, if you are using the same instruments with another kits, ex: same toms cymbal these wont be loaded are already there from previous load. The 200mb limit and loading time these was the main things reported as draw back on this module.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 12:51:12 PM by ChrisK »

Offline Purpledc

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2018, 12:52:56 PM »
I asked few people the loading affect sample that are not loaded, toms and cymbal get delayed to be audible same with the effect, if you are using different sample from each kits there will be difference, if you are using the same instruments with another kits, ex: same toms cymbal these wont be loaded are already there from previous load. The 200mb limit and loading time these was the main things reported as draw back on this module.



Well I own the module and play it every day.  And like I said all of my kits use a variety of samples.  By reverbs are immediate.  And all the instruments work.  The only thing that takes any time on my unit to load are sample layers.   Like I may only have a closed hi hat for a couple seconds rather than a fully operational hi hat.  But effects, compression and the main Layer A instruments are all ready to go almost instantly. Compression also.  Works from the moment I select a kit.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 12:55:50 PM by Purpledc »

Offline VandalX

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2018, 01:32:32 PM »
Alesis DM 10 MKII Pro (with Tama Iron Cobra double). Pearl Export acoustic. Fostex VF160EX Digital multitrack (16). Fostex monitors. Roland TR-626 drum machine. Roland Juno 106 Poly synth. Aria Knight Warrior. Peavy Fury. Digitech GNX3000. Digitech RP360. Tascam Porta 05 four track. MacBook Air.

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2018, 02:28:07 AM »
I would love to do what Jman does. Try everything out there, understand it and write a review.

Ask Jman have drumit5, drumit3 and mimic to compare side by side, from what he told me, it's on another class, on everything.

Offline Rmiller

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2018, 04:18:50 PM »
Thanks Chris, I am sure the mimic is hands down a better overall module, especially the control you have over everything as well as itís native sounds. No doubt Jman picks the mimic as the number one module on the market by far, but itís price is also at the top or close to it.  The drummit3 however is no slouch and at itís price point does what I need it to do, edit, load and play my AD2 kits without a computer for live play as well as sending midi to Logic when recording (I also use AD2 in logic for that). The only real downside for me and itís not really an issue, is having to split some Tom rims to have 2 more cymbals. I have some good audio equipment which makes a huge difference and it sounds really good. I think the quality of a sound system is equally important to achieving great audio. Of course with recordings, itís all in the mix and how you handle FX. I may get a Mimic someday but for now I am very satisfied with the drummit3, especially the financial side of it all.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 04:28:45 PM by Rmiller »

Offline VandalX

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2018, 10:35:39 AM »
Hi Rmiller- I've been hoping to get a drummit3 at some point. I love the price point and flexibility. Nothing else in that price range seems to do what the 2box can. Now that they're discontinuing the drummit5 (and their line of pads/kits), perhaps those will show up on the secondary/clearance market? I have AD2 as well, and would love to have something I could load and untether from my laptop.
Alesis DM 10 MKII Pro (with Tama Iron Cobra double). Pearl Export acoustic. Fostex VF160EX Digital multitrack (16). Fostex monitors. Roland TR-626 drum machine. Roland Juno 106 Poly synth. Aria Knight Warrior. Peavy Fury. Digitech GNX3000. Digitech RP360. Tascam Porta 05 four track. MacBook Air.

Offline Rmiller

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2018, 06:33:18 PM »
  And greetings to you VandalX. You may be able to pick up a used drumit5 module for a decent price, but those modules new went for around $1100 to $1200 and the drumit3 new is $800 to $900 so not sure if a used 5 will be worth it. The 5 does have more outputs but with a work around on the 3ís headphone outs, you can still have 6 outputs to a mixer. For me thatís more than enough. Also the 5 is more proprietary on the inputs, especially the hihat. Need a special controller, but, their are some boxes from zourman.com that can fix that issue. The 3 is universal which makes it more appealing to me.
  I find it interesting that 2box seems to have switched its focus from a complete set to the drumit3 module and their a to e triggers. I think if the word spreads in the US about the drumit3 moduleís capabilities and itís price point, 2box should not have any problem getting their fair share of the market. They are really more established in the European market being a Swedish company, so thereís plenty room to grow in the US.
  Itís no big deal but I wish they would of added at least 2 more inputs, minimum, and went with a 128gb card architecture instead of 4gb but Iím sure they were trying to keep costs down and not try to compete with the high end Roland and now Pearl modules, yet still deliver a module thatís extremely flexible (and I think they did it).

Offline VandalX

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2018, 08:13:07 PM »
Good point re: proprietary stuff on the Five. And of course, the price point. I suppose one could get a trigger interface to add some more inputs. I kinda like the idea of the Roland TM-6.

When I was first looking into e-drums, 2box was at the top of the list, but I couldn't swing it at the time due to finances. Now that I have an Alesis (and myriad replacement pads thanks to their customer service), I can focus on incrementally making my kit bigger and better. Well, bigger. Better is a stick hit away from failure. I truly think Alesis owners must suffer from Stockholm Syndrome on occasion. I know I do!

Alesis DM 10 MKII Pro (with Tama Iron Cobra double). Pearl Export acoustic. Fostex VF160EX Digital multitrack (16). Fostex monitors. Roland TR-626 drum machine. Roland Juno 106 Poly synth. Aria Knight Warrior. Peavy Fury. Digitech GNX3000. Digitech RP360. Tascam Porta 05 four track. MacBook Air.

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2018, 12:29:30 AM »
Hi,

I have tried Alesis strike for a week, the playability on hihat is not on par on Roland either MIMIC, there is lacking on transition, extra tight hihat, transmunication and articulation, the depth of the sound is not on par from MIMIC, swell are not smooth, probably because of 200mb limitation and no real mic + GIGABYTES per kits like true VST have\MIMIC. The loading time, those affect the sound, from v1.3 and v1.4 I tried and it is evident, sample are not all loaded, some sound kick in late, and something even no sound, depend on firmware, I tested v1.3 and v1.4. There is the normal loading time as before, just different way.

I would take 2box before strike, but not change mimic to 2box, has more capability on triggers accuracy, no limit per kits,  and editing that 2box can't have. I had the same conclusion as Jerry, which have drumit5, drumit3, but his main module is mimic, he use drumit3 as addons.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 01:08:20 AM by ChrisK »

Offline ironman187

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2018, 03:50:57 PM »
The Mimic to me seems like an over priced compromise. It doesn't sound as good as a VST, and isn't much more capable than any of the other flagship modules from other brands, but come at a steep premium. There really isn't a better module or kit for the money than a Strike imo. 

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2018, 08:46:18 PM »
The Mimic to me seems like an over priced compromise. It doesn't sound as good as a VST, and isn't much more capable than any of the other flagship modules from other brands, but come at a steep premium. There really isn't a better module or kit for the money than a Strike imo.

You think that because you don't know how others flagship works and mimic works, it's the same library and control as the computer VST SSD4\5 Slate VST version, it's a true vst which default library 14GB  have been used from many pro on studio and famous well know band album, running GB'S per kits and streaming. There is no module on the market can able to do this, the memory is vital for a kit, it's the same comparing picture size\format JPG 512x512 image vs 4k image.  ALL others flagship use limited memory and limited layers, synthetic sound\machine gun sound, week sound on faster roll and faster playing, and so on, without real triggers compatibility but generic, for instance TD-30\TD-50 don't use even real sample, but parts with dsp processing and sound synthetic

There is more then the sound, there is the performance, how playability works,  the 3rd party compatibility triggers with all brand, not generic that will trigs "ok" or even not able. And all external stuff on midi to add more triggers, and sound expandability.

HIHAT is vital on a kit, the hihat on strike does not perform on a standard level, same with the loading time, I have saw at least 40 dead strike module post, awfully amount of broken triggers and cone falling on several Alesis strike group, I could not imagine outside internet what is happening out there with return and supports, it's flaw that Alesis never fixed before strike release on previous kits. You will get better result and accuracy building your own DIY kit with Roland cymbal\ATV then strike kit. If your module\ pad\cymbal triggers fails again after the warranty, you will need to spend your money.

There is big difference judging sound on video vs the real module and playing performance after a month and tweaking.


« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 10:13:51 PM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2018, 03:28:01 PM »
The Mimic to me seems like an over priced compromise. It doesn't sound as good as a VST, and isn't much more capable than any of the other flagship modules from other brands, but come at a steep premium. There really isn't a better module or kit for the money than a Strike imo.

Although the Mimic Pro is expensive I wouldn't mind paying extra for its improvement updates (plus expected editor) and after hearing this comparison of it with the Strike module (@ 0:30 & 5:30): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRnQ_zLc3VU

Maybe combining Slate Drums 5 with a Strike kit could be a suitable compromise based on these SSD 4 kit samples: http://stevenslatedrums.com/ssd4/#AE
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:20:53 AM by rhysT »

Offline ironman187

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2018, 03:00:40 AM »
The Mimic to me seems like an over priced compromise. It doesn't sound as good as a VST, and isn't much more capable than any of the other flagship modules from other brands, but come at a steep premium. There really isn't a better module or kit for the money than a Strike imo.

You think that because you don't know how others flagship works and mimic works, it's the same library and control as the computer VST SSD4\5 Slate VST version, it's a true vst which default library 14GB  have been used from many pro on studio and famous well know band album, running GB'S per kits and streaming. There is no module on the market can able to do this, the memory is vital for a kit, it's the same comparing picture size\format JPG 512x512 image vs 4k image.  ALL others flagship use limited memory and limited layers, synthetic sound\machine gun sound, week sound on faster roll and faster playing, and so on, without real triggers compatibility but generic, for instance TD-30\TD-50 don't use even real sample, but parts with dsp processing and sound synthetic

There is more then the sound, there is the performance, how playability works,  the 3rd party compatibility triggers with all brand, not generic that will trigs "ok" or even not able. And all external stuff on midi to add more triggers, and sound expandability.

HIHAT is vital on a kit, the hihat on strike does not perform on a standard level, same with the loading time, I have saw at least 40 dead strike module post, awfully amount of broken triggers and cone falling on several Alesis strike group, I could not imagine outside internet what is happening out there with return and supports, it's flaw that Alesis never fixed before strike release on previous kits. You will get better result and accuracy building your own DIY kit with Roland cymbal\ATV then strike kit. If your module\ pad\cymbal triggers fails again after the warranty, you will need to spend your money.

There is big difference judging sound on video vs the real module and playing performance after a month and tweaking.

Settle down Rambo. I know the Mimic isn't worth the price for me precisely because I know it's capabilities. It's called an opinion, deal with it. Furthermore, plenty of people, myself included, have had success getting the hihat to work well, with Strike hardware and without, so that's a moot argument on your part. If you are looking for vindication over your particular brand of G.A.S. or for a module you own, then perhaps you don't really believe it's as good as you think. Either way, I don't care, it won't change my opinion.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 03:16:46 AM by ironman187 »

Offline ChrisK

Re: Will Strike performance module ever sell in the US?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2018, 01:50:03 PM »
Settle down Rambo. I know the Mimic isn't worth the price for me precisely because I know it's capabilities. It's called an opinion

There is big difference for my need and usage opinion post and saying things like mimic is not a vst\doesn't sound as good as a VST\ it's like another flagship module out there etc.. that was the point of my message. It's normal there is need, depend on how each one perform and how they perceive the sound for their ears, some can't even notice machine gun on Roland for instance and telling it's sound the same as any computer vst, I saw that countless of time and others can't even handle complex part on hihat and others stuff, they don't need much things for them, same with crappy triggers, it will sound and perform the same as anything on the market for them, but for others it won't works, they want all the extra etc. That make more sens for particular need vs price.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 04:46:37 PM by ChrisK »