Author Topic: Another option for better sounding ekits  (Read 4874 times)

Offline rhysT

Another option for better sounding ekits
« on: June 06, 2015, 05:10:07 PM »
Although VSTs provide excellent sounding ekits, I didn't want to just use my DM10 module as a trigger I/O. I've been tweaking the instrument settings to make the kits sound better and made more improvements with a reconfigured Korg Pandora Mini effects processor, that allows many combinations of amp & cabinet simulators plus reverb, delay and modulation effects (http://www.korg.com/us/products/effects/pandoramini/index.php).
Its custom effects are easily tweaked with the available editor and they can be selected with 4 panel buttons or value dial on the module.
When my revised 'clean' settings are loaded into the editor, they are stored in a Preset programs list (on RHS) as #400>599 and I've renamed them similar to the original guitar/bass effects with an added asterisk(*). All or any of them can be copied and pasted into the 200 User programs (LHS) list (#000>199) to 'transmit' them into the Pandora module. Any distorted effects have been simply switched off in the editor and they can be easily enabled for guitar or bass playing.

A MP3 demo plus the revised User programs file, and owner manual are available via: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lz0sdoqez46r8io/WOQqueK7RI
The MP3 demo provides some beat patterns with 4 effects I mainly use, in this sequence:
Bypass Fx> Comp 1*> Balance*> Comp 2*> Halftone*> Comp 1*> Bypass Fx.
Korg's (Win/Mac) editor is required to transfer the downloaded (Pandora User programs-1.pxm) file to the module (refer to the SoundEditor guide). Btw, the Pandora Stomp version has a similar editor, so if anyone owns one can you confirm that my User programs also function OK with it?

FYI, the Pandora Mini has Mono In & Out so I've included some info about combining the DM10 module's headphones stereo out to mono with a few resistors that will fit in a TRS plug (refer to "Why not Wye?"-fig.2). There's also a stereo Aux input for your music player and it can be powered via its USB connector.

This versatile module is an easy way to vary your available kit sounds for practice or playing live. If you try it out, some feedback might help convince any doubters how much it improves the e-kit sounds.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 04:17:18 AM by rhysT »

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 02:24:48 AM »
Sold.  There some great sounds on your MP3. I have been lamenting how uninspiring my DM10X sounds.

I'll be getting myself one of those Korg units or something similar. Great idea. Why should guitarists have all the effects?  :)

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 04:37:16 AM »
Sold.  There some great sounds on your MP3. I have been lamenting how uninspiring my DM10X sounds.

I'll be getting myself one of those Korg units or something similar. Great idea. Why should guitarists have all the effects?  :)

I didn't emphasize the Pandora's "effects" as I prefer fairly clean processing to keep the kit instruments more realistic. Some of the demo presets prob'ly sound similar but they allow useful variations to the snare and cymbal sounds.

I tried a mate's Boss effects pedal unit previously but it lacked bass response, whereas the Pandora includes guitar and bass amp simulators.

Let me know if you need help loading the User presets file with the editor.

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 06:34:33 AM »
Thanks rhysT

I'm not keen on too much effect either, but I certainly like 'some'. I too noticed the bottom end in the kit on that sample MP3. Was huge.  It was a breath of fresh air on that demo after the dry sound and the Korg kicked in.

I'm looking at the Zoom MS 50g too. Just wondering how that would go. I have much research to do.

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 09:08:43 PM »
Thanks rhysT

I'm not keen on too much effect either, but I certainly like 'some'. I too noticed the bottom end in the kit on that sample MP3. Was huge.  It was a breath of fresh air on that demo after the dry sound and the Korg kicked in.

I'm looking at the Zoom MS 50g too. Just wondering how that would go. I have much research to do.

I reckon the Pandora's range of effects would be equivalent to what the VST edrum programs provide (without stereo).
I don't know how the Zoom MS-50g effects compare, but some advantages of the Pandora are USB power, Aux audio input, headphones out, volume control, rhythm patterns, editor and my modified presets file.
You could check out the Pandora Stomp version if you want foot operation, although I prefer having easy access to panel controls like the 4 preset buttons.

Here are some more expensive stereo effects processors with e-drum instruments included:
http://www.roland.com/products/integra-7/  http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Integra7
http://peavey.com/products/musebox/  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnKK4QHP5Xo&index=1&list=RDJnKK4QHP5Xo

Btw, the proposed KAT 'Adam' drum module is (or was) being developed by Muse Research: http://www.hellfiredrums.com/kat-pro-kit-wadam-eve-module-combo/
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 03:04:35 AM by rhysT »

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2015, 08:32:37 AM »
Just adding some info to a recent post about trying various DM10 preset Compress settings for better sounding kits than with their default settings.
Most of the DM10 kits have Compress/EQ selected for snare, toms and kick/s but not the cymbals, so simply try switching between presets like SoftHype, Bright, Country & Crunch for preferred overall sounds with your favorite kit/s. The Pandora effects combine to produce more realistic sounding kits.
Btw, the term 'Compress' is a bit misleading as the various presets seem to include different frequency settings, separate from the adjustable 'EQ' settings.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 08:35:40 AM by rhysT »

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 09:07:22 PM »
Anyone wanting to check out different DM10 Compress presets with their kits, may be interested in the ones I'm using combined with my Pandora effects module.
The included worksheet also lists default EQ settings for each kit, which can be tweaked to fine-tune the overall kit sounds.
Btw, checking the revised Compress settings just with the original kits reminded me how much tweaking was required to make them sound OK and why many guys have ditched them.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 08:14:12 AM by rhysT »

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 10:48:11 PM »
Took me a while but I just ordered my Korg Pandora Mini. Looking forward to having a play with it.

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 11:13:25 PM »

FYI, the Pandora Mini has Mono In & Out so I've included some info about combining the DM10 module's headphones stereo out to mono with a few resistors that will fit in a TRS plug (refer to "Why not Wye?"-fig.2). There's also a stereo Aux input for your music player and it can be powered via its USB connector.


Just curious.. The DM10 module has stereo out. Left and right..

However it says in the manual.

Plug 1/4" TS cables from the MAIN OUT or AUX out to an amplifier, mixer, or speaker system. (For MONO sound, you can connect only one output)


So could I not just take one line out and not worry about the stereo to mono box?

I would however have to deal with the signal level wouldn't I? Instrument level from a guitar vs a line level from the DM10.

<edit>

I just googled up 'keyboard into guitar pedals'. Lots of keyboard players doing it. Some suggested keeping the output level down on the keyboards. I figure the DM10 has similar output to a keyboard. So I should be right taking mono out of the DM10 and putting into the Pandora.

This sound about right? 
 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:45:39 PM by Dobly »

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 01:42:29 AM »
It should be OK using either DM10 Main L/R output with the various left/right Pan settings for each kit instrument.
I was surprised that panning the Snare between L50 & R50 didn't affect the level much on either L/R output!
I decided to use a simple 3 resistor mixer on the stereo headphone output instead which provides a convenient mono mix.
The Pandora module accepts line level signals OK with the DM10 H/P level set similar to when headphones are plugged directly into it.
Loading my revised programs file (via the editor) may be a bit tricky the first time so let me know if you want some help with it.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:49:15 AM by rhysT »

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2016, 02:30:19 AM »
Thanks for the tips rhysT

I'll let you know how I go. I'm  not expecting the Pandora till next week.

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2016, 06:50:10 PM »
I could not make head nor tail of your cable image, until I reread your first post. You are using the stereo headphone output.

I had not noticed that point and was going on about using the left and right main output from the DM10.

All good now. Nothing to see here..  ;)

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 12:14:12 AM »
Hey Dobly (& anyone else interested), since tweaking my DM10 kits without the Pandora mini connected, I've added it back onto the module output and tweaked my 4 preferred presets for a useful variety of drum sounds and ambience effects for each kit. My updated Pandora user programs (.pxm) file is available via this link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lz0sdoqez46r8io/WOQqueK7RI
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 12:22:04 AM by rhysT »

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 10:40:17 PM »
Hey Dobly (& anyone else interested), since tweaking my DM10 kits without the Pandora mini connected, I've added it back onto the module output
By this, do you mean using one of the Main Outs as a mono out? This is how I send a mono signal to my sound guy.

Interesting stuff here!
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:48:09 PM »
Bummer. The Pandora Mini (and Pandora, for that matter) seem to be extinct!
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline Dobly

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 11:16:41 PM »
Bummer. The Pandora Mini (and Pandora, for that matter) seem to be extinct!

Ebay might have some 2nd hand.


Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 03:25:31 PM »
Bummer. The Pandora Mini (and Pandora, for that matter) seem to be extinct!

Yeah, I bought a spare one when they were being cleared out locally.

By this, do you mean using one of the Main Outs as a mono out?

Scroll up to Reply #9 for some info about connecting the Pandora module to the DM10 headphones output to allow for possible level differences with panned kit instruments.

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 08:22:45 PM »
Scroll up to Reply #9 for some info about connecting the Pandora module to the DM10 headphones output to allow for possible level differences with panned kit instruments.
Yup, I read the whole thread. I have no idea really what you did there. I was looking for a link to, perhaps, a tutorial on that or something.
Don't worry though. I no longer live in a place that has any sort of electronics parts stores for buying resistors and such.

But besides all of that, the manual says that if only one 1/4" is plugged into one of the Main outs, it will become a mono out - as in, both R & L will be fed in mono form out through that jack. So when we tried it with my kit live, that's exactly how it works - one cord = mono output. Wouldn't that work going into something like this too?
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline rhysT

Re: Another option for better sounding ekits
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 03:31:41 PM »
..... the manual says that if only one 1/4" is plugged into one of the Main outs, it will become a mono out - as in, both R & L will be fed in mono form out through that jack. So when we tried it with my kit live, that's exactly how it works - one cord = mono output. Wouldn't that work going into something like this too?

Yeah that's an easier option, thanks for the reminder about DM10's single L/R mixed mono outs.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 04:20:21 PM by rhysT »