Author Topic: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?  (Read 7423 times)

Offline MechanEvil

Doable? What I mean is, most of the dual zone pads have a TRS connector. Is there a way to split the input into two pads so that one would use the "head" and the other the "rim" for that input? This would really open up the scope for expansion of the kit. I think it would be more complex than using a y-cable, but what do I know!
Warrior poet, guitar vocalist bassist drummer
... and inventor of the three-legged setup

Offline Trondster

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 05:47:09 AM »
How is this any different than using a Y splitter?
If you want to use only one zone from each pad, you could just use two TS connectors into each pad, joined to a single TRS jack - in other words a simple y splitter.

You typically do not want to send the head and rim trigger signal from a pad to two different inputs - you'll get a ton of crosstalk, as you can't use the handy "zone xtalk" to subdue just that kind of crosstalk.

Currently I'm using two single zone surges into a single perc input using a Y splitter.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 04:53:19 PM »
It's doable. My "old school" drum pads have two separate TS inputs - one for the head piezo and one for the rim piezo. So I actually use standard stereo Y-cables for each pad all the time. Therefore I think you could use a Y-splitter or Y-cable input to 2 different single-zone triggers.

You won't be able to hit the 2 single-zone triggers at the same time, though. The module purposely doesn't allow that, so that your dual-zone pads aren't rife with cross-talk all the time like Trondster mentions. I think it's a great feature actually. With my original module (D4) and the same pads, I would try to get a dual-zone snare by using 2 separate module inputs, but could never get the crosstalk situation quite right. 
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones

Offline MechanEvil

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 02:37:09 PM »
That's exactly what I was saying, Trondster. Thanks, Burning Tires. But cross talk, didn't think of that. I was thinking of a larger snare for my kit and didn't want a pad to go to waste, hehe.
Warrior poet, guitar vocalist bassist drummer
... and inventor of the three-legged setup

Offline Trondster

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 05:44:40 PM »
But if you got an "extra" pad, and want to use both zones from the pad - why not just plug the TRS jack into an available two zone input? If you want to use both zones from the pad on a Dm10 - why try to split them up into to different inputs at all?

If you only want to use a single zone from the pad - just use a TS jack, or a TRS jack with only the TS or RS connected.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline MechanEvil

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 03:51:13 PM »
No no. I wanted to split a single input on the DM10 into two pads. If I hadn't asked, I wouldn't have caught on to the Xtalk thing. The things we sometimes don't think of.
Warrior poet, guitar vocalist bassist drummer
... and inventor of the three-legged setup

Offline Jermdog

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 08:20:05 AM »
It's not a question of xtalk when you split one input.  It would only be an issue if you sent the head to one input and the rim to a different input.  What you're proposing will work fine.  Before I got my second module, I had several Y adapters on one module without any xtalk issues.  Just remember, you can only use zone xtalk if you have xtalk between the two pads on the same trigger input.

As stated above, you cannot trigger both at the same time.  The module prevents that from happening.  Kind of funny... they give you zone xtalk, but the module prevents it... I guess so you don't get the mute group effect where striking the second trigger mutes the strike of the first trigger (Hellfire's additional method of additional cymbal chokes!!!)  Although, I don't think this is 100% true for all inputs (think ride, where you can get the bow and bell sound at the same time... not to mention the crash sound which is a function of two triggers at the same time).

You can also add additional chokable cymbals using a Y on the same input.  The limitation here is that you're stuck with the same kit settings, sounds and all, for both.  Not really a big deal as most larger sets usually have pairings of a few cymbals on different sides of the kit.
Strike Pro, Dm10, Zildjian Gen 16 hats, xhats and garbage cymbals, Kit Toys chinas, crash and splashes, jam dock, mixer, custom 13" tom, alesis, drum workshop and various hardware.

Offline MechanEvil

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 11:59:34 AM »
Thanks for the info, Jermdog. Not being able to strike two pads simultaneously is a big limitation and the idea is pretty much sunk there and then. Guess I'll stick with my current hardware till something falls apart, it's not like a bigger pad will sound better :)

Noticed the Trigger IO in your setup. I guess that's another potential route!
Warrior poet, guitar vocalist bassist drummer
... and inventor of the three-legged setup

Offline Jermdog

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 03:04:12 PM »
Why should that stop you?  Do you strike the highest and lowest toms at the same time?  Think of what sounds you would never strike together... and split those.

I had a similar set up for some of my toms in the past.
Strike Pro, Dm10, Zildjian Gen 16 hats, xhats and garbage cymbals, Kit Toys chinas, crash and splashes, jam dock, mixer, custom 13" tom, alesis, drum workshop and various hardware.

Offline Trondster

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 03:31:57 PM »
But - if you want to use both zones of a single pad - in what scenario would you want to split them? As I asked earlier - why not use those two zones in a single input? I can't see a scenario where you would want to split the input - why not reassign the instruments instead?
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline MechanEvil

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 06:21:43 AM »
@Trondster: Supposing I wanted more toms. It just seems simpler to hit a pad than a rim. Difficult to remember that stuff sometimes. When I'm playing, I don't want to have to remember a lot of external stuff.
@Jermdog: That's a good point. It could work really well. I might hit a high and low tom simultaneously though, if I was trying out some kind of jungle drums-influenced rhythm.
Warrior poet, guitar vocalist bassist drummer
... and inventor of the three-legged setup

Offline Trondster

Re: Splitting a dual zone trigger into head/rim for separate pads?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 08:10:25 AM »
If you have a dual zone pad, and just want to use the pad as a single zone pad - as I wrote earlier - just use a TS jack or a TRS jack with only the TS or RS connected, and you can use a Y splitter to connect two such pads in a single input, setting zone xtalk to zero.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.