Author Topic: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds  (Read 18649 times)

Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« on: November 21, 2012, 02:13:31 PM »
Hey All,

It's been a looooong time since I've posted here, but I've been using my DM10 again and have discovered some methods I thought I'd share.

Before I start, please note that I like realistic sounds from my e-drums. Like, close your eyes and it's an acoustic kit (but with a volume knob!)

That being said, one thing I've never liked about e-snares is the soft-to-loud consistency. The "curve" going from soft to loud on an acoustic drum is NOT the same between the "drum head/shell" sound and the "snares" sound. To achieve this effect on the DM10, here's what I've done:

1) Set up your favorite snare sample as Layer A, and "Piccolo 1" as Layer B
2) Change the filter type of both sounds to HiPass. Set the "velocity>filter" setting to a large NEGATIVE value (say, -99 to -70 or so.) and set the Layer A filter value itself to a lower medium value, like somewhere between 20-50. Set the Layer B filter higher... Maybe 40-70.
3) Don't go overboard with the "velocity>level" setting- expecially on Layer B. Maybe 60-70 or so on Layer A and 40-60 on Layer B. (This is because the snare buzz sound is louder in the overall snare sound mix at lower volume hits.)
4) Use the Level setting to "mix" the two sounds to your liking. If you do it all correctly, changing the balance between the sounds will be very similar to adjusting the snare strainer on an acoustic drum.

What this does is makes your e-snare behave more like an acoustic drum. The fact that all the DM filters default to LoPass baffles me. That's not how real drums work! If you hit a drum very softly, you hear the "tick" of the stick attack and snare buzz first, and the depth of the tone emerges as you play louder. That's exactly how a HiPass filter operates.

By the way, these same filter ranges really improve the realism of toms, cowbells, cross-stick, timbales, and more. Using the filter to create the soft-to-loud dynamic range is so much more realistic than only using the velocity>level setting.

Also, copying these settings for Layer B (Piccolo 1) to Layer B on toms and bass drum, with lower level and higher filter settings, can create an extremely realistic sympathetic snare buzz effect, which I really prefer in my jazz kits. Pay attention to your acoustic kit to see which drums excite the snares more than others, and mimic it with your Level settings. Also, remember to pan the layers to different locations... The Floor Tom panned R25, snare buzz at L05, for example.

Yes, I know... Some players HATE snare buzz, and see its absence as a bonus on e-drums. Me? I like the realism. And, make a second kit in the next kit location, with a snares-off snare sound and no Layer B on any drum, and now your "kit up" button acts like turning your snare strainer off. You can even turn snares on and off mid-song using this method!

I hope that helps someone!

Jer
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 12:54:42 PM by zendrumdude »
Taye GoKit with Pintech trigger conversions, Hart mesh heads, Zildjian Gen16 AE cymbals, Pintech Nimrods, and various and ever-changing accessories

Offline Trondster

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 02:34:47 PM »
Read this thread - http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=2946.0 - if you add a bit of Vel>Pitch, the drums will go up in pitch when you hit harder.

I'll try your tip - thanks! :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 03:29:11 PM »
Yeah, I forgot to mention that... I use a little vel>pitch as well, especially on my "boingy" jazz toms.

Jer
Taye GoKit with Pintech trigger conversions, Hart mesh heads, Zildjian Gen16 AE cymbals, Pintech Nimrods, and various and ever-changing accessories

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2012, 04:51:50 AM »
Hi, yes you've got it for sure, it took me a long time to learn how to blend layers successfully, I like the way you have explained how to do it, that only comes from a good understanding of all the parameter effects.
 
  H.F, one for the advanced user guide?

Offline Trondster

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2012, 05:25:19 AM »
Hmm - I'd like a common thread with "favourite" instrument settings, where we can share the best instruments settings we've come up with so far.

And - for me the best single sample is Lu5x14 SS for the head and Lu5x14BBStk for the rim, which just miiight be a Ludwig 14x5" Super Sensitive and a Ludwig 14x5" Black Beauty (cross sticked), respectively.. ;)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 06:35:15 AM »
Good idea Trondster, can anyone who posts their settings, make sure they also state what global trig sens (under utility menu) and what global graphic (main drum kit menu, cursor down button) and most importantly, under the main drum kit menu, edit instrument, the FX settings- - the type of reverb, effects, compression, and E.Q.
   These are important to know as they dramatically change the overall sound of instruments in the kit.  :)

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 12:35:14 PM »
Ok, I'll start. Here are my exact settings for my two main kits (rock and jazz.) I'll list the snare drum and Tom 2 settings. (I didn't list Tom 1, since I have an older module and Tom 1 doesn't trigger well.  Yeah yeah, I know... I need to send it in.  LOL)

Trigger settings:
Taye GoKit drums with Pintech conversion kits installed

Global Trig Sens: Medium

Snare Head:
Sens 7
Xtalk rcv/send: 1, 5
Retrigger: 10
Thresh: 30
Curve: spline 2

Tom 2 head:
Sens 7
Xtalk rcv/send: 6, 5
Retrigger: 20
Thresh: 65
Curve: spline 2

Instrument settings:
ROCK KIT
Snare:
Layer A: Lu5x14 SS
Level 87
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -20
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 6

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 35
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 50
Vel>pitch 0

Tom 2:
Layer A: Y 9x12 MCA
Level 86
Pan R10
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 25
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -90
Vel>level 35
Vel>pitch 10

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 18
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 0

JAZZ KIT
Snare:
Layer A: R5x14DynStk
Level 92
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -30
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 8

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 40
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 50
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -50
Vel>level 65
Vel>pitch 0

Tom 2:
Layer A: G 8x12
Level 87
Pan R10
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -40
Vel>level 60
Vel>pitch 12

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 18
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 0

Enjoy!

Jer
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 12:56:27 PM by zendrumdude »
Taye GoKit with Pintech trigger conversions, Hart mesh heads, Zildjian Gen16 AE cymbals, Pintech Nimrods, and various and ever-changing accessories

Online Hellfire

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 01:16:00 PM »
Awesome topic. I've been use the Vel> parameters for ever to get a more realistic sound out of my DM10. Many of the the advanced user guide sections utilize these parameters very heavily. You can see that in the example I posted in that topic.

As for a section of instrument settings. We already have a section for that:

DM10 Custom User Kit Downloads Area

If you guys use DMeditor, users wouldn't need to re-inputs all of the parameters. You could just up load your DMeditor instrument file or kit file. Just a thought.

Offline Trondster

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 01:36:07 PM »
The problem with sysex files is that it overwrites everything - it would have to be DmEditor files..
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 06:06:34 PM »
The problem I have with DmEditor is it doesn't read the settings already in the module

I'd rather put settings into an excel file than  use the dmeditor
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Online Hellfire

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2012, 09:26:17 PM »
The problem with sysex files is that it overwrites everything - it would have to be DmEditor files..

Yes, I know. That is why I stated this:

If you guys use DMeditor, users wouldn't need to re-inputs all of the parameters. You could just up load your DMeditor instrument file or kit file. Just a thought.

I didn't say anything about sysex files. Though that can be done as well.

Offline Trondster

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 03:47:41 AM »
Well, Hellfire - you did link to a thread starting with "This area is dedicated to the Alesis DM10 Midi Sysex custom kit memory files.". ;)
But - never mind - we all agree.

And - it seems I listed the wrong favourite snare - I'm currently using the P6x14 FFS - which just miiight be a Pearl 14x6" Free Floating Snare. Just a guess. :D
But - I'm going to have a second look at the Lu snares - I like the ring, and I'm going to experiment a bit more with the tuning parameters. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Online Hellfire

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 10:20:12 AM »
Well, Hellfire - you did link to a thread starting with "This area is dedicated to the Alesis DM10 Midi Sysex custom kit memory files.". ;)
But - never mind - we all agree.

Yes we do agree, but you pointed out something that tends to be a recurring issue with forums in general. Topics over time morph or change. The link I provided above was started before DMeditor existed. You'll notice that the last message in that topic has DMeditor files attached to it.

I will update the title of that sticky since it seems the goal is custom instrument and/or kits which can be achieved by DMeditor files or sysex files.

Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 07:27:03 PM »
Recklessrog:

THANKS for mentioning the compressor settings! Honestly, I had never delved into that menu, and changing my rock kit's compressor to "Bright" (and then messing with the parameters) yielded a much more crisp sound, which I had been looking for. Additionally, reducing the compression brought out some ringy overtones in my snare, which I love.

I have to say, this is very different than a "real" compressor. I'm guessing raising the compression setting is analogous to lowering the threshold AND raising the compression ratio, and the gain setting is makeup gain. I'm not sure what's going on with "Bright," "Rok1/2/3," etc. (why the compressor seems to also have EQ ramifications); maybe frequency-band specific compression?

At any rate, it's a powerful yet somewhat hidden tool. Thanks for the heads-up.

Jer
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 09:26:45 PM by zendrumdude »
Taye GoKit with Pintech trigger conversions, Hart mesh heads, Zildjian Gen16 AE cymbals, Pintech Nimrods, and various and ever-changing accessories

Offline vaikl

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »
I have to say, this is very different than a "real" compressor. I'm guessing raising the compression setting is analogous to lowering the threshold AND compression ratio, and the gain setting is makeup gain. I'm not sure what's going on with "Bright," "Rok1/2/3," etc. (why the compressor seems to also have EQ ramifications); maybe frequency-band specific compression?

Yep, the compressor tool/FX in the module is more like a "one-knob-solution", which is customized for specific kits. Even Waves as a well-known developer for high-end plugins has such "knobs" in their current product portfolio.

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2012, 08:19:49 AM »
Ok, I'll start. Here are my exact settings for my two main kits (rock and jazz.) I'll list the snare drum and Tom 2 settings. (I didn't list Tom 1, since I have an older module and Tom 1 doesn't trigger well.  Yeah yeah, I know... I need to send it in.  LOL)

Trigger settings:
Taye GoKit drums with Pintech conversion kits installed

Global Trig Sens: Medium

Snare Head:
Sens 7
Xtalk rcv/send: 1, 5
Retrigger: 10
Thresh: 30
Curve: spline 2

Tom 2 head:
Sens 7
Xtalk rcv/send: 6, 5
Retrigger: 20
Thresh: 65
Curve: spline 2

Instrument settings:
ROCK KIT
Snare:
Layer A: Lu5x14 SS
Level 87
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -20
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 6

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 35
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 50
Vel>pitch 0

Tom 2:
Layer A: Y 9x12 MCA
Level 86
Pan R10
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 25
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -90
Vel>level 35
Vel>pitch 10

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 18
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 0

JAZZ KIT
Snare:
Layer A: R5x14DynStk
Level 92
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone +1
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -30
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 8

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 40
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 50
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 50
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -50
Vel>level 65
Vel>pitch 0

Tom 2:
Layer A: G 8x12
Level 87
Pan R10
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 20
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -40
Vel>level 60
Vel>pitch 12

Layer B: Piccolo 1
Level 18
Pan L05
Decay 99
Reverb 60
Effects 0
EQ/Comp On
Semitone 0
Fine tune 0
Filter 70
Type HiPass
Vel>decay 0
Vel>filter -99
Vel>level 70
Vel>pitch 0

Enjoy!

Jer

Many thanks for kindly sharing these setting Jer, I tried them last night and they work very well, all apart from "Sens 7"....this I had to put this up a bit on my module, as it was not registering all of the hits. Aside from this one small thing, they worked really well, so much appreciated.

Mark.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 08:23:19 AM by Topcat7123 »

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2012, 09:21:35 AM »
Mark,

Glad to hear that, man! Keep in mind, my drums are a DIY conversion job, so trigger settings will definitely vary. I'm glad you got it to work though! The DM10 can be sooooooo powerful... I wish the factory sound presets out of the box were better. Maybe I'll apply for a job there and see if I can do better.  Lol

Jer
Taye GoKit with Pintech trigger conversions, Hart mesh heads, Zildjian Gen16 AE cymbals, Pintech Nimrods, and various and ever-changing accessories

Re: Pointers on getting more realistic snare drum sounds
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2013, 05:27:11 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions on creating instruments.  I have added them to my instrument library in DMeditor.  Here are the files in case someone else would like them.