Author Topic: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix  (Read 21753 times)

Offline Greaserock

Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« on: March 03, 2012, 10:03:59 PM »
I was going crazy trying to get this dm-10 pedal to respond like a real pedal. After a closer look, i realized the issue. Its mechanical not an electrical problem. Here is my simple solution. The pedal travel has about a half inch gap between pedal travel and trigger activation. My solution is to take the bracket that is bolted to the top of the foot pedal and reverse it to mount under the footboard. The responsiveness is perfect!
Turn off your brain and let your soul play

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 12:55:13 AM »
Well - the pedal is, as far as I know, in "contact" with the trigger all the way - the trigger generates a number for each position if the pedal, and using the trigger settings you can change the curve and cutoff-points for how the module translates these numbers to open, half-open, 3/4 closed etc -settings.
Having said that, however, I'm not quite happy with the pedal, so it would be fun to take a look at your modification.. :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:26:07 AM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 07:22:46 AM »
Thats interesting, I have two realhat pedals here and the bracket on both has a half inch gap before it contacts the rubber even when the bracket is at its lowest position (adjustable with the chrome bolt on the front) Have a look at the last post I put on regarding different pedals.
I'l give that a try, thanks for the tip  :)

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 09:51:45 AM »
Hmm - I might be was very wrong - I'll have one more look.

It should be easy to check if the module is reading anything at the top of the pedal travel - I think I'll try to run a couple of "calibrate" tests with the pedal depressed just a few mm at the "open" position and see if the calibration yields different numbers than calibrating it at a fully opened position.. :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:26:57 AM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline einarabelc5

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 03:16:23 PM »
Thats interesting, I have two realhat pedals here and the bracket on both has a half inch gap before it contacts the rubber even when the bracket is at its lowest position (adjustable with the chrome bolt on the front) Have a look at the last post I put on regarding different pedals.
I'l give that a try, thanks for the tip  :)

Make that 4 pedals with an inch gap ;D.

Btw, I still don't get what he's saying. I simply put a folded paper sheet and taped to the thing.

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 03:17:47 PM »
You, sir, were completely correct. The pedal does not connect to the trigger lever at all in the upper position, even when the flange thingy is set as low as it can go. You can easily see that when calibrating as well - the top position will always yield 85 - I had to depress the pedal a cm or so before the calibration would register as any lower than 85 when running the "Open" calibration

I did exactly as you said - moved the holder mounted on top of the pedal to the bottom - and with the flange adjusted as low as it will go, the pedal now is in touch with the trigger in the open position - the calibration now yields a value of 83 instead of 85 when I am calibrating with the pedal fully open.

Success! Now there is no dead zone in the pedal travel, and it is much more responsive - thank you very much! :)


Other solutions could be to bend the flange metal part, or add some padding - just like einarabelc5 suggests. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline einarabelc5

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 03:21:16 PM »
You, sir, were completely correct. The pedal does not connect to the trigger lever at all in the upper position, even when the flange thingy is set as low as it can go. You can easily see that when calibrating as well - the top position will always yield 85 - I had to depress the pedal a cm or so before the calibration would register as any lower than 85 when running the "Open" calibration

I did exactly as you said - moved the holder mounted on top of the pedal to the bottom - and with the flange adjusted as low as it will go, the pedal now is in touch with the trigger in the open position - the calibration now yields a value of 83 instead of 85 when I am calibrating with the pedal fully open.

Success! Now there is no dead zone in the pedal travel, and it is much more responsive - thank you very much! :)


Other solutions could be to bend the flange metal part, or add some padding - just like einarabelc5 suggests. :)

Well budd, it's still not fully responsive although I can play American Pie now.

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2012, 02:46:07 AM »
Quote
Btw, I still don't get what he's saying.

Imagine!

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 06:04:08 AM »
Trondster suggests bending the flange but you would have to be carefull, mainly because the angle it is at allows the rubber to "roll out" over the film resistor. If you just bend it down it looks like it could dig into the rubber.
    Better to file the adjustment slot deeper, (its easier if you remove the bracket) I used a chainsaw chain sharpening file, they are only about 1 and come in different diameters and are very sharp.
    Another thing I noticed is that you need to make sure the flanged piece sits squarely on the rubber and is not canted over at an angle or it tends to push the rubber out of line.

Offline inconn

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 09:25:04 AM »
    Another thing I noticed is that you need to make sure the flanged piece sits squarely on the rubber and is not canted over at an angle or it tends to push the rubber out of line.

This is true, I noticed this while trying out this mod, it was misaligned:

Also, if you wan't to screw in this piece UNDER the footpad (as the OP suggested) you need to screw it in the middle hole on the footpad, or it ends  up scraping the inside of the pedal.

I can provide photos of the way I did it if anyone requests.
I haven't had time to test it out extensively though, but it seemed to work a bit better than before for the half an hour I played it.

Offline einarabelc5

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 11:39:14 AM »
    Another thing I noticed is that you need to make sure the flanged piece sits squarely on the rubber and is not canted over at an angle or it tends to push the rubber out of line.

This is true, I noticed this while trying out this mod, it was misaligned:

Also, if you wan't to screw in this piece UNDER the footpad (as the OP suggested) you need to screw it in the middle hole on the footpad, or it ends  up scraping the inside of the pedal.

I can provide photos of the way I did it if anyone requests.
I haven't had time to test it out extensively though, but it seemed to work a bit better than before for the half an hour I played it.

Me wants pictures.... :P

thanks!!!

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 01:53:58 AM »
If I flip the bracket upside down, the rubber pad gets squished into the bracket because there is no solid surface on the top and much less surface area. I found it easier to glue two strips of Ye Good Ole Craft Foam to the bottom of the bracket. (could drummers be keeping Michael's in business?)

They really should have cast a small alignment notch or guide into the underside of that pedal to keep the bracket straight.

.

Offline So-Kal

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 10:14:32 AM »
Could I have some pics please too?
Standard DM10 - played with passion!

Offline einarabelc5

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 04:52:01 PM »
If I flip the bracket upside down, the rubber pad gets squished into the bracket because there is no solid surface on the top and much less surface area. I found it easier to glue two strips of Ye Good Ole Craft Foam to the bottom of the bracket. (could drummers be keeping Michael's in business?)

They really should have cast a small alignment notch or guide into the underside of that pedal to keep the bracket straight.

.

Go figure. The flipped pad on mine STILL left some space between this thing and the trigger. I had to reattach the paper sheet.

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 05:58:24 PM »
With the adjustable flange in the top position, there is a huge gap between the adjustable flange (gray) and the trigger (black, in the hole).

And thus, you have to move the pedal quite a fair bit before actually reaching the mechanical trigger.

Even with the flange in the lowermost position, there is still a gab between the flange and the trigger.


I disassembled the flange and the bracket:


..And put the bracket back on - mounted on the underside of the pedal.
The screws are tricky - the best way would be to mount both screws the correct way, and add an extra nut to the frontmost screw (the threading is in the pedal itself).


As I did not have an extra nut with the correct threading, I put the frontmost screw upside down and tightened it by hand - as it was not tightened with a screwdriver (there was no room), it won't hold that much. But - I tightened the back screw (with nut) with a screwdriver and a spanner, and it is this screw that will keep the bracket affixed to the pedal.

But - now the flange (barely) touches the trigger, and any movement on the pedal will be registered by the trigger, instead of having a lot of dead room at the start of the pedal travel.


Issues/future improvements:
The bracket is barely scraping the front of the pedal casing, impeding free travel - I might unmount and slightly bend the bracket, to keep it from touching the inside of the pedal casing.
I'd like the bracket to be securely fastened to the pedal - I might locate a nut matching the threading and mount the front screw the right way, with the nut underneath. Or - using a smaller screw with matching nut, a screw that will go inside the threading on the pedal.

An alternative solution could be to do as evilcartman suggests - to just attach something to the flange as a spacer, craft foam, metal or whatever - filling the space, making direct contact with the trigger sensor.
For my pedal, the perfect thickness for such a spacer would be the thickness of the pedal + the thickness of the bracket - this the same distance the flange has moved after moving the bracket to the underside of the pedal.


Edit: I ended up moving the bracket - see my post on the next page. :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:35:02 AM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline inconn

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 07:06:03 AM »
Here's mine. So, I've had to screw it in the second hole because it was scraping the insides of the pedal.




Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 08:03:44 AM »
Great post.  I just put a piece of felt (a round "foot" with adhesive on it like you would put on the bottom of furniture).  This seems to just take up the slack.

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2012, 11:30:27 AM »
I eventually ended up doing the same as inconn - the front of the bracket was scraping against the inside of the pedal casing, slightly impeding the movement of the pedal. I moved the bracket a bit back, and although it is only held by a single screw, the pedal is nice and stable, and the response is much better. Works like a charm! :)


But - darrenw2112s suggestion of gluing something on the bottom of the flange is a just as good solution, and might be even easier. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2012, 02:50:16 PM »
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at in these photos.

I hate the lack of responsiveness in this pedal but can't quite get what it is I'm supposed to be tweaking and don't want to make it worse!

Anthony

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2012, 06:29:05 PM »
I started taking things apart and it began to make sense. In one of the photos above (img_2952) the lip that activates the trigger appears to be missing.

Anyway, I've similarly modified mine, with the latter 1-screw solution. The pedal works MUCH better now. Thanks for the tip!

Anthony

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2012, 12:11:53 AM »
The lip is not missing - it is just inside the hole in the pedal casing, touching the trigger. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline gorgatron

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2012, 01:40:44 AM »
i've scanned through this thread twice, but it's long, i'm just catching a glimps on my breaks, and breaks will be few over the next few weeks. such is the life of a freelancer...nothing to do for a month or so, and then you work almost every waking hour for about a month. hope that changes once i leave the US - better prospects in the EU. i now digress from my story for which i myself care very little, in order to ask a simple question i may have glossed over too quickly.

@Trondster- though it doesn't appear to be the case, did you have to drill a new hole for your method? with all the photos, and from other users, it was hard to tell if this was the case. i know you still used two screws, just with a modified install, and others used the one-screw method.

@ everyone else who performed a mod, except for the user who used a shim, did any of you drill a new hole to facilitate your modification?

i'm scared to drill a new hole, which is why i take time to ask now, while it's fresh in my mind. lol

sorry if this has been covered. i'm looking for a project to do on my short breaks, and this could be it. i noticed too that the HH pedal ranges were sort of odd, but didn't have the same insights as the rest of you to formulate why this might be. i've saved the thread for the future, but an answer would sve me time, of which i'll have little for some time to come (see boring story at beginning of post  ;) )

thanks to all of you contributing your knowledge and expertise!!! 8)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 01:43:19 AM by gorgatron »
Alesis DM10 Studio - modified Trondster dampened rack, Hellfire mesh head conversion on toms and kick, converted 1971 14" Ludwig 303 snare w/ aluminum shell - cone + rim piezo conversion; alternate between Stock and Blue Jay Roms, BFD2, Reaper, Reason 6.5

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2012, 01:45:48 AM »
At first, I used a two-screw method, but then later I moved the bracket and went for a one-screw method instead.

I'll see how it works over time - if the screw does not stay put, or it is unstable, I might go for a two screw approach - drilling a hole, placing something under the lip or similar - but for now I'm staying with the single screw. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2012, 05:15:29 AM »
I eventually ended up doing the same as inconn - the front of the bracket was scraping against the inside of the pedal casing, slightly impeding the movement of the pedal. I moved the bracket a bit back, and although it is only held by a single screw, the pedal is nice and stable, and the response is much better. Works like a charm! :)


But - darrenw2112s suggestion of gluing something on the bottom of the flange is a just as good solution, and might be even easier. :)

I was amazed that someone had actually figured out how to increase the responsiveness of the real hat pedal, but then i seen your pictures... i dont even care about the pedal any more! What kind of camera are you using????:D
DM10 Pro kit, Mesh Heads, Quad Kicks, Dampened Rack, Extra Roland Crashes.

Offline Trondster

Re: Hi Hat pedal 5 min fix
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2012, 05:58:55 AM »
I was amazed that someone had actually figured out how to increase the responsiveness of the real hat pedal, but then i seen your pictures... i dont even care about the pedal any more! What kind of camera are you using????:D
Thanks - I replied in my own "hello, folks" thread, to avoid a thread jack.
Fun if there are any other photo interested people here as well. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.