Author Topic: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos  (Read 50737 times)

Offline mpanzer

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2015, 09:21:17 PM »
Khes74 is right about going with at least 1/4".  Having done the Hellfire conversion on my 8" and 10" pads, my opinion is that a minimum of 1/2" thick would be ideal.  The point of messing with the foam under the plate is to lower the plate in the foam stack so you can fit more foam on top.  Harder hits (at least mine) would bottom out on the plate with only 1/4" foam.  Since the 12" pad is much shallower than the 8" and 10" pads, I'm not sure you have enough room to get even 1/4" foam above the plate and still have enough below.  This is why I created the "Shell Riser Mod" to "deepen" the shell by about 3/8" or 7/16".  It's been about 6 months using the risers, and they play and feel identical to the 8" & 10" "Hellfire" converted pads.  While making the riser pieces takes a little time, it's well worth it.

That all said, if you're trying to do the minimum changes to the pads, stick with your approach first.  My only suggestion is that you'll probably want to use a foam that's denser than the stock Alesis gray foam (under the plate).  This should help cushion the stick bottoming out with harder hits.

Offline Khes74

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2015, 09:52:40 PM »
Khes74 is right about going with at least 1/4".  Having done the Hellfire conversion on my 8" and 10" pads, my opinion is that a minimum of 1/2" thick would be ideal.  The point of messing with the foam under the plate is to lower the plate in the foam stack so you can fit more foam on top.  Harder hits (at least mine) would bottom out on the plate with only 1/4" foam.  Since the 12" pad is much shallower than the 8" and 10" pads, I'm not sure you have enough room to get even 1/4" foam above the plate and still have enough below.  This is why I created the "Shell Riser Mod" to "deepen" the shell by about 3/8" or 7/16".  It's been about 6 months using the risers, and they play and feel identical to the 8" & 10" "Hellfire" converted pads.  While making the riser pieces takes a little time, it's well worth it.

That all said, if you're trying to do the minimum changes to the pads, stick with your approach first.  My only suggestion is that you'll probably want to use a foam that's denser than the stock Alesis gray foam (under the plate).  This should help cushion the stick bottoming out with harder hits.

Do you have a physical shell riser? I saw the diagram but I would like to see a picture of it in action.

Offline mpanzer

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #102 on: January 20, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
Rather than further crowd this thread with my Riser method, I've added a new thread:
http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=5865.msg41011#msg41011

I plan to post updates there as I experiment with other foam sheets.

I hope it helps!
-Matt

Offline spectorga

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #103 on: January 20, 2015, 05:10:07 PM »
Khes74 is right about going with at least 1/4".  Having done the Hellfire conversion on my 8" and 10" pads, my opinion is that a minimum of 1/2" thick would be ideal.  The point of messing with the foam under the plate is to lower the plate in the foam stack so you can fit more foam on top.  Harder hits (at least mine) would bottom out on the plate with only 1/4" foam.  Since the 12" pad is much shallower than the 8" and 10" pads, I'm not sure you have enough room to get even 1/4" foam above the plate and still have enough below.  This is why I created the "Shell Riser Mod" to "deepen" the shell by about 3/8" or 7/16".  It's been about 6 months using the risers, and they play and feel identical to the 8" & 10" "Hellfire" converted pads.  While making the riser pieces takes a little time, it's well worth it.

That all said, if you're trying to do the minimum changes to the pads, stick with your approach first.  My only suggestion is that you'll probably want to use a foam that's denser than the stock Alesis gray foam (under the plate).  This should help cushion the stick bottoming out with harder hits.

I've completed the mod.  The 12 inch pads work great with 5mm foam.  They feel great, at least to me.  The 8 and 10, however, do not feel as good and have a bit of a metallic sound on impact. My guess is that the stick is hitting the metal plate and 5mm won't cut it on the smaller pads.  I think I'll get a 2 or 3 mm foam sheet and "stack" them.  Do you think its worth a try?
I'm trying to avoid the whole soldering mess.  Thanks again!

Offline mpanzer

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #104 on: January 20, 2015, 05:33:28 PM »
It's certainly worth a try.  That's the best part of modding these pads.  You can keep opening them up and changing things around.  Of course, it's nice to have some pointers from these forums so you don't have to open them up TOO many times.

My only worry about adding more foam on top would be how it affects the sensitivity.  There's definitely a delicate balance with the amount (and type) of foam both above and below the reflector plate.  It's certainly worth a shot and adjusting your trigger settings in the module might be able to make up for it as well.  I can't tell you how many times I've muddled around in the 12" pads, and I plan to do more.  :-)

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #105 on: January 28, 2015, 07:10:54 PM »
Does anyone know if this is something that would work with a rubber pad from a DM7? I am considering picking one up for a steal here locally, but don't want to if it can't be converted easily.

Offline davemcq

Hello. First, this post has me back on track so thank you for sharing.

The problem i am having is very poor sensitivity on rimshot. I'll explain what I've done thus far.

The pad is an Alesis 12" dual zone Realhead. Apparently its the "pro" one that has 20mm of foam instead of 15mm. I have not actually seen a picture online of foam that matches mine. I've attached a photo of the two pieces of original foam. ( IM ON MY PHONE AND CAN NOT ATTACH PHOTO. IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEE IT, LET ME KNOW)  They're each 10mm and the piece with the larger hole was on top of the other foam with the sensor plate on top of that.

I did not follow Hellfire's method. I followed Gerdy's for the most part.
Some differences:
1. I used a Roland mesh head which i now understand is not the recommended head for the conversion but it doesn't seem to be a problem.
2. I used 3/16 inch AC filter foam ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BO68BU/ref=ya_aw_oh_pii ). 3/16 inch converts to about 4.75mm.
3. I cut the "CD" holes big enough to not touch the glass part on the sensor plate. Thats about an extra 1/2 inch diameter over an actual CD.
4. Used an extra slice of foam to add the missing 5mm of height.
5. I did not do any electronic mods, did not desolder resistors.

So my final stack is 2 pieces of foam with the "CD" hole. Then the sensor plate. Then 2 pieces of foam without holes. The rebound and sensitivity of the surface are great. But the rimshot is way off. Anything but the very lightest tap of the rim will trigger a snare (surface) hit. The only thing that triggers what I would call a correct rimshot is if i reach under the drum and tap right in the center. (right where that trigger is)

My module is the DM7X and it does not have separate settings for the snare and the rimshot.

Any suggestions?
Thank you;
Dave
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 11:20:23 AM by davemcq »

Offline davemcq

Ok. I swapped the foam around. The state i described above was 2 foam donuts on the bottom, then sensor plate, then 2 foam sheets on top.  The snare surface was great but I'm pretty sure the bottom of the plate was touching the rimshot sensor. I believe that cutting the inner circles too big so that the glass part of the sensor plate did not touch the foam was the problem.

So i just tried 3 donuts with the same cut under the plate with one sheet of foam on top. The rimshot works fine and the surface senses fine but the one sheet of foam is not enough and its a louder hit with less rebound.

Next, follow Gerdy's instructions correctly with an added sheet on top to give me the needed 20mm. Thats 2 properly cut donuts, sensor plate, 2 sheets of foam.

I've yet to test the sensitivity but at least I'll be functional again.

I hope this does it bc I'm ready to start kicking holes in the wall since i haven't played in well over a week.

Dave

Offline davemcq

Wow.  Is this thread dead or what?  Very surprised I've gotten zero replies. Anyway...

So, i used donuts with the correct size hole and all is well.  That CD hole has to be smaller than the glass on the sensor plate.

That's two donuts, sensor plate, two sheets, just like Gerdy said plus the extra donut for the 20mm spec.  Foam is 3/16"=4.76mm.  FYI, I think that extra 5mm is to provide separation between the sensor plate and the rimshot sensor.

Haven't tested for specific module settings.

Dave

Offline swlabr

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #109 on: December 19, 2015, 10:44:36 PM »
(For clarification, my Alesis 12" dual-zone head is the type without any layer of white foam. It is just like the one illustrated in Gerdy's demo. I'm using 682drums white mesh head.)

I performed Gerdy's mod on my Alesis 12" dual zone head according to his instructions, but with a different foam. What prompted me to use Gerdy's mod over the 682 mod is this. I loved the feel of the 682 mod with the cone, but when I played two rapid notes with one hand with heavy force, the second note would not sound. I spent days tweaking my trigger settings, but could not get the playability I wanted, nor could I get the second note to sound. Rapid heavy strikes with alternating hands did not produce this muted effect. Weird, I know. Anyway, Gerdy's mod with the foam I describe fixed the problem.

Sourcing the correct foam in the U.S. was a bear for me. I initially tried 1/2" medium-density foam at the bottom of the pad and 1/2" medium-density foam directly underneath the mesh head. This did not fix the problem and the playability was not good. I finally found foam that worked. The store is Upholstery Fabric Outlet here in San Diego, CA (http://www.ufofabrics.com/). They key was finding "Headliner Foam". It's the stuff that is used to line the interior ceilings of cars. This specific foam is low-density and 1/8" thick. I also got some 1/4" thick low-density foam there. I used three layers of the 1/8" foam on the bottom of the pad. I then used one layer of the 1/4" foam directly underneath the mesh head. The thickness does not exactly match Gerdy's specifications, but it worked in my situation. It took awhile to tweak the trigger settings, but I'm pleased with the results. Settings are as follows:

Snare Head
  Sensitivity: 62
  Xtalk Rcv:  00
  Xtalk Snd:  07
  ReTrigger:  00
  Threshold: 03
  Curve:       Offset

Snare Rim
  Sensitivity:  26
  Xtalk Rcv:   07
  Xtalk Snd:  07
  ZoneXtalk:  07
  Curve:        Linear

I sincerely hope this saves someone the trouble I went through. Good luck.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 11:08:31 PM by swlabr@cox.net »

Offline Trondster

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #110 on: December 20, 2015, 06:17:52 AM »
I'd strongly recommend not having xtalk receive and xtalk send of 7 - if you hit other pads at the same time the other hits will be cancelled out. As well, xtalk send of 0 is too low, unless it is on a separate stand - but then the other xtalk send/receive should be zero as well.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 06:41:05 AM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline cheezyfryes

I was just about to start this mod on my 12" heads, but the recent Photobucket policy change removed remote references to images they host.

Gerdy, are you still around and can you repost all the helpful pictures??

Offline Basic261

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #112 on: December 31, 2017, 07:15:04 PM »
For those of us in the US I believe I Found A supplier in Michigan where you could purchase the materials from. Here's the link.

https://www.foambymail.com/SFF-/speaker-filter-foam-30-ppi.html

I ordered the role of this let everybody know if this stuff works

Offline mpanzer

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #113 on: January 01, 2018, 02:36:48 AM »
For those of us in the US I believe I Found A supplier in Michigan where you could purchase the materials from. Here's the link.

https://www.foambymail.com/SFF-/speaker-filter-foam-30-ppi.html

I ordered the role of this let everybody know if this stuff works

Basic621,
Please let us know how it compares to the original grey foam from the pads. I’ve found the following to be the best match so far and find it works very well:
https://www.foambymail.com/CR/solid-charcoal-regular-foam.html
I’m curious how the speaker foam compares.

Offline Basic261

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #114 on: January 01, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »
Today I went to my local Lowes. I purchased the Frost King A/C Filter. Part # F1524. Polyurethane Foam 15inch x 24inch x 1/4"inch The only thing I did was add 2 12" full pieces to the top, just above the Trigger plate. I'm using Billy Blast 3ply mesh heads. I did have to adjust my threshold a bit but nothing else.

Offline Basic261

Re: 12“ Mesh Head Conversion / only with foam / step by step / incl. videos
« Reply #115 on: January 01, 2018, 10:29:23 AM »
mpanzer

I did also order the https://www.foambymail.com/CR/solid-charcoal-regular-foam.html. I have 2 more heads to do so I will do one with the Solid Charcoal Foam and compare.