Author Topic: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box  (Read 30230 times)

Offline Hellfire

Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« on: January 11, 2010, 07:27:01 PM »
Okay, what's the deal here. Is Alesis licensing the DM10 hardware out?

For those who don't know. Pearl has released information about their new ePro live drums. It looks to be using an Alesis DM10 module (repackaged for Pearl) and Surge cymbals (again, repackaged for Pearl).

The big question is: Is the RED box download kits compatible with the DM10?



For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline mazzith

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 08:11:32 PM »
It def looks like the surge and DM10 module. I am going to wager that set going to cost a small fortune though. If you notice they are also using 2 DM10's to complete that set, because once you have the dual zone ride plugged in you limited to 3 extra expansion ports. They have 2 extra cymbals and 2 extra toms.

Great looting setup non the less. Appears they renamed their sets to.
Lets go Cowboys!

Offline goony

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 04:08:39 PM »
Grrrr cant view the video from Pearl on this kit ..flash video is blocked on our onboard ship network...
KIT: Roland TD9s
Online Browser Game Desert Ops
http://uk.desert-operations.com/?recruiter=275

Offline Guinness

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 11:13:11 PM »
very cool.
 
Although the guy doing the video seems like he should be doing a video for a 12-string guitar, or baby grand piano, rather than a drum kit.   Drink some coffee dude!  Wake up! 
 
lol
 
 

Offline ghostman

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 02:07:22 PM »
Yeah, I wonder if the RedBox kits will be available to a non-red DM-10.

I liked the part in the video saying you can upload one VST kit over everything, that sounds GREAT - a VST in a module, with some limits, but this sounds AWESOME.
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline H3RB

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 09:58:18 AM »
Yeah, I wonder if the RedBox kits will be available to a non-red DM-10.

I liked the part in the video saying you can upload one VST kit over everything, that sounds GREAT - a VST in a module, with some limits, but this sounds AWESOME.
thats the bit im interested in and hope we can do it on the dm10.... that kit is damn sexy tho. but then i thought why not just buy a drum kit and convert it to an e kit and use the dm10.... same kit a fraction of the price lol

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 10:44:20 AM »
When they say a VST kit, they mean a VST sounding kit. I doubt very seriously there will be any kind of VST control in the module other than the effects that are already in there. In a way the DM10 drum module already has VST like controls in it. I can control the volume of each sound, I can change the pitch, I can change the eq., there is the velocity envelopes, and the effects.

I think what they mean by VST sounding kit is the depth of each kit. Right now the DM10's samples only have about 3 or 4 layers deep of samples. Meaning a snare sound is made up of 3 or 4 different velocity sounds. In a VST kit, they normally have up to 12 or more layers of velocity sounds for each instrument (like the snare) That is what makes VST sound more real. Since the DM10 only has 128MB of memory, to put 12 or more velocity sounds per instrument takes up a lot of space.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2010, 02:33:51 PM »
Yeah, I wonder if the RedBox kits will be available to a non-red DM-10.
I don't think so. On Pearls website it states this about downloading kits from the REDBOXsoundshop.com.

You will receive an "unlock" key that is unique to your serial number on your REDBOX. You will only be able to download sounds to your computer and your REDBOX.


I guess this is how they are going to control non REDbox owners from buying their sound sets. So, will the downloads be compatible with the DM10? I don't know. They only way to find out is to know someone with a REDbox and dump the download to a DM10 instead of the REDbox. Worse case is you have to re-install the DM10 stuff if it doesn't work I would think. I'm just guessing at this point.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Guinness

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2010, 03:16:36 PM »
When they say a VST kit, they mean a VST sounding kit. I doubt very seriously there will be any kind of VST control in the module other than the effects that are already in there. In a way the DM10 drum module already has VST like controls in it. I can control the volume of each sound, I can change the pitch, I can change the eq., there is the velocity envelopes, and the effects.

I think what they mean by VST sounding kit is the depth of each kit. Right now the DM10's samples only have about 3 or 4 layers deep of samples. Meaning a snare sound is made up of 3 or 4 different velocity sounds. In a VST kit, they normally have up to 12 or more layers of velocity sounds for each instrument (like the snare) That is what makes VST sound more real. Since the DM10 only has 128MB of memory, to put 12 or more velocity sounds per instrument takes up a lot of space.

But, if they decrease the quanitity of voices (ie remove all hip hop/techno voices) would that leave enough room for more voice layers?  Maybe not 12, but perhaps more than 4.   Darn DM10 needs more memory.  >:(

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2010, 05:05:14 PM »
But, if they decrease the quanitity of voices (ie remove all hip hop/techno voices) would that leave enough room for more voice layers?  Maybe not 12, but perhaps more than 4.   Darn DM10 needs more memory.  >:(
Sounds like it is time to upgrade to a DM20? ;D
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline ghostman

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2010, 06:04:13 PM »
But, if they decrease the quanitity of voices (ie remove all hip hop/techno voices) would that leave enough room for more voice layers?  Maybe not 12, but perhaps more than 4.   Darn DM10 needs more memory.  >:(
Sounds like it is time to upgrade to a DM20? ;D

DM10 x 2?

I am waiting for the dude who decides to GAS up his Alesis setup w/ 2 DM10 modules.  We've all seen some Roland kits with 2 TD20's.  And if you haven't, what kind of e-drummer fanboy are you?  (hint, Mr. Render is one multi-TD20 kit builder).
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline Guinness

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2010, 06:04:41 PM »
But, if they decrease the quanitity of voices (ie remove all hip hop/techno voices) would that leave enough room for more voice layers?  Maybe not 12, but perhaps more than 4.   Darn DM10 needs more memory.  >:(
Sounds like it is time to upgrade to a DM20? ;D

I'd buy one!  (IF they include all of our suggestions from the DM20 thread.  :)   AND they offer trade-in monies for our DM10's.  :D )

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 07:10:15 PM »
But, if they decrease the quanitity of voices (ie remove all hip hop/techno voices) would that leave enough room for more voice layers?  Maybe not 12, but perhaps more than 4.   Darn DM10 needs more memory.  >:(
Sounds like it is time to upgrade to a DM20? ;D

DM10 x 2?

I am waiting for the dude who decides to GAS up his Alesis setup w/ 2 DM10 modules.  We've all seen some Roland kits with 2 TD20's.  And if you haven't, what kind of e-drummer fanboy are you?  (hint, Mr. Render is one multi-TD20 kit builder).
I guess you could do that but it would be a lot cheaper to just add a Trigger I/O to access some of the other 35 midi notes on just one DM10. Have a look at this topic:

DM10, 35 additional sounds via MIDI!!!

Of course looking back at that topic, you responded to it. :P So I guess you already know so, for anyone else, there you go.

It would be interesting to see someone use 2 DM10's (a bit over kill because of the link above but still cool). ;D
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline ghostman

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 07:17:53 PM »
I guess you could do that but it would be a lot cheaper to just add a Trigger I/O to access some of the other 35 midi notes on just one DM10. Have a look at this topic:

DM10, 35 additional sounds via MIDI!!!

Of course looking back at that topic, you responded to it. :P So I guess you already know so, for anyone else, there you go.

It would be interesting to see someone use 2 DM10's (a bit over kill because of the link above but still cool). ;D

I think the trigger sensitivity in the DM10 is better than the IO, at least it was faster to dial in the DM10 than the IO.  but, yes, the trigger IO -> DM10 combo would be just as good, but not as cool looking.  A TD-9 / TD-20 kit isn't as cool as a TD-20 / TD-20 kit.  But then, only the cool kids are in the pool.
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 12:00:13 AM »
I think the trigger sensitivity in the DM10 is better than the IO, at least it was faster to dial in the DM10 than the IO.  but, yes, the trigger IO -> DM10 combo would be just as good, but not as cool looking.  A TD-9 / TD-20 kit isn't as cool as a TD-20 / TD-20 kit.  But then, only the cool kids are in the pool.
I know what you mean. Those cool kids tend to have the money to do those type of things as well. I don't have that kind of money. :'( But, if I did, I would do dual DM10's just to say I can. Most likely I would get a DM10 Studio kit and mesh it with my Pro kit. The super duper dual DM10 experience!
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline akromyk

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 02:57:05 PM »
HF, I just read this thread a second time more closely rather than just skimming through it like before.

Where did you hear about this?:

As far as the really good sounding multilayer sounds per trigger thing, Yes Alesis already stated that is what they plan on doing. If you replace the entire 128 MB with just one kit, yes you can have that kind of depth and Alesis stated that is how they plan on using it.
( http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=230.45 )

This whole Pearl Redbox thing is worrying me. The only thing on the Alesis DM10 page in terms of downloading is:

The DM10 module not only has a breathtaking collection of sounds on-board, it is also the world's first drum-sound module that enables you to load new sound sets via USB connection from your computer. This means that your sounds will always stay fresh, current and cutting edge.

And then on the Alesis DM10 site when they mention BFD, Toontrack and Reason, it is in this context:

You can also use the DM10 as a trigger-to-MIDI interface for performing and tracking with software drum modules such as BFD, Toontrack and Reason, among others. For practice, you can play along with the tracks in the DM10ís internal sequencer, mix in an iPod or other MP3 player and play along.

However, on the Pearl's Redbox website when they refer to BFD and Toontrack it is in this context:

One very unique and exciting capability of Pearl's r.e.d.box is the Memory Switch, which gives you the ability to flash the memory and substitute a lush, super high-end drum set for the original acoustics. Pearl has partnered with professional digital drum samplers Toontrack, Sonic Reality, Ocean Way, Steven Slate Drums, Virtual Drumline and BFD, to provide the lush kits through a new website, www.redboxsoundshop.com.

Either Alesis has a piss poor marketing team or something is going on. Alesis better not have sold that stuff off to Pearl otherwise I will dig up the grave on this and call them out on their false marketing practices. I know I heard somewhere that these companies were developing sounds for Alesis, and I bought this kit with that in mind. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are youtube videos with an Alesis representative stating that fact on youtube.

I think we should all keep a close eye on this one so that we don't all get screwed.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 03:17:36 PM by akromyk »

Offline Guinness

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 03:05:46 PM »
I believe they (Pearl v. Alesis) are saying the same thing, and it's marketing verbiage.
 
Patience is required here, in my opinion.
 

Offline akromyk

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 03:13:02 PM »
I hope you are right. Is there anything official from Alesis though. I don't understand why Pearl is already advertising the downloadable content, as well as the companies involved, while Alesis hasn't advertised anything. This is a horrible marketing move on Alesis's end if there are big named companies making sounds for them. It's so bad that I find it hard to believe that it's just an accident.

Are these companies no longer working with Alesis? Are they solely working for Pearl's repackaged DM10 (Redbox)? Is Alesis working by themselves to create these sounds now, while these companies go off to work with Pearl?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 03:16:17 PM by akromyk »

Offline ghostman

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2010, 03:19:24 PM »
Our Alesis rep, Dan, (in the other VST sound module thread) mentioned he already previewed one download candidate, and sent it back - he wasn't happy with it.

With Dan previewing the Alesis downloads, they might be better over the REDbox ones - Pearl may just accept whatever to get their library going.  Quality vs. Quantity..

I support Dan and his effort for QUALITY. :D

I charge $0.02 for this opinion.
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline akromyk

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2010, 04:26:02 PM »
That is a good point. There is the possibility that these companies might just dump their garbage on Pearl's front doorstep and save the good stuff for themselves, while Alesis takes their time and makes some great sounding kits. I guess it depends on what's in it for these companies.

There is another scenario. Alesis might have just dumped these companies with the attitude that they can make good enough sounds on their own in order to pocket all of the money. While Pearl took a different approach and decided to act as a middleman and allow these various companies to sell their kits through their own website, and only pocket a fraction of the cost. Pearl's method create competition between companies who already have a great deal of specialized experience in this area rather than trying to do it all themselves.

Who knows what will happen. Those are the scenarios I think are most likely, but then again I am making a lot of assumptions. I'll relax and be patient. I just hope Alesis can match what those companies put out.

Offline Guinness

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2010, 04:50:38 PM »

There is another scenario. Alesis might have just dumped these companies with the attitude that they can make good enough sounds on their own in order to pocket all of the money. While Pearl took a different approach and decided to act as a middleman and allow these various companies to sell their kits through their own website, and only pocket a fraction of the cost. Pearl's method create competition between companies who already have a great deal of specialized experience in this area rather than trying to do it all themselves.


You would admit that is pure speculation, yes?
 
Here's my $0.02, but I'll give it to you for free :D ...
 
Alesis has more to lose if the uploadable kits are crap.  The DM10 is thier flagship drum module, and if it goes awry, then it'll be worse for them, than for Pearl.  Pearl is dipping their toe in the edrum waters.  If it flops, it's a "Well, hey, we tried."  Whereas, if it flops for Alesis, it'll be a "Holy shit, now what?" moment.

Offline ghostman

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2010, 05:36:07 PM »
There is another scenario. Alesis might have just dumped these companies with the attitude that they can make good enough sounds on their own in order to pocket all of the money. While Pearl took a different approach and decided to act as a middleman and allow these various companies to sell their kits through their own website, and only pocket a fraction of the cost. Pearl's method create competition between companies who already have a great deal of specialized experience in this area rather than trying to do it all themselves.

It's possible, however I highly doubt it.  The kit Dan rejected, I believe, was from a VST vendor.  He's not gonna tell us who because that would be wrong.  The power from these sound sets is to attract attention to the DM10 with big VST names - FXPansion, ToonTrack, etc.

I agree w/ Guiness, I think Alesis has more riding on these sound sets than Pearl does.

Really, the module isn't even a year old yet, and if ANYONE (other than me) has worked in a corporation, #1 time sink is meetings about meetings about what to do about all the dam meetings.  A year spins by really fast.  How long did it take the iTunes store to get on it's feet?  Sure, it was less than a year, but the audience for that is easily 10x (or 50x or more) what the edrummer market is. :D
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2010, 07:30:39 PM »
akromyk, I don't think it is time yet to worry about it. Alesis did advertise this. You might want to read over this topic:

Where are the DM10 Custom Sound Sets?

You might also want to see this ad by alesis:

ALESIS DM10 PRO KIT Introduction
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline DeeDubs

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2010, 09:56:13 AM »
[quote author=ghostman link=topic=129.msg2897#msg2897
Really, the module isn't even a year old yet, and if ANYONE (other than me) has worked in a corporation, #1 time sink is meetings about meetings about what to do about all the dam meetings.  A year spins by really fast.  How long did it take the iTunes store to get on it's feet?  Sure, it was less than a year, but the audience for that is easily 10x (or 50x or more) what the edrummer market is. :D
[/quote]

LOL - So true about the meetings.. Damn I hate meetings. I'm from the less talk, more do camp. ;)
Bashing away on: Alesis DM10 Pro Kit w/ Bluejay soundset, Yamaha DTXM12, Addictive Drums, Gibraltar Cage & old skool Ludwig Maple Kit.


Check out my silly mug with "So What" at http://www.sowhatct.com

Offline eugenecp

Re: Alesis DM10 vs. Pearl's R.E.D. Box
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 12:05:24 PM »
well, i'll be leaving in a few mniutes for a meeting about a meeting next week! :o

back on the sound sets, it does take a long while for larger companies to move than smaller companies, especially for a company with a lot of different products like Alesis.  but hopefully, they come out soon!
DM10 Pro Kit, Tama Iron Cobra Jr Double Bass Pedal, Tama 1st Chair HT530E5, Tascam US-122 Audio/MIDI interface