Author Topic: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?  (Read 24593 times)

Offline Hellfire

Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« on: February 02, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »

No, those pictures are not real. Sorry to disappoint you guys.

Actually, this is just a kind of wish topic. Seeing the new Alesis iO Dock
Pro Audio Dock For iPad got me thinking. I know many will say that the iPad isn't powerful enough to do this, but iPad 2 might be. The pictures are mock-ups that I made to show how cool something like this would be. If Alesis could pull something like this off, they would definitely corner the market. Just think, a touch pad drum module. ;D

Side Note: I show BFD2 running on the ipad. In truth Alesis would have to write a custom drum module program because something like BFD2 is way too massive to run on a portable device like the ipad. I was just lazy and didn't feel like making a custom looking drum software.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 08:53:36 PM »
Whhooo... HF you damn witch, you can read my mind!!! ;D ;D

The iPad itself doesn't necessarily need to have more power, Alesis only has to put the module's brain and interfaces into such a case and send MIDI internally to the pad. As the whole MIDI functionality of OSX is now working in the iPad since IOS 4.2, the rest will be pluggin' together what's already there.

And BFD eco should work, even with an USB-connected external harddisc... :D

I think we'll see something like that in the near future. When the pad came out I stood back and thought "No, I don't need a sofa pad for mail and video..", but after the music industry has encountered it's enourmous possibilities so quickly (beatboxes, sequencers, synths, remote controls, unseen new instruments, who name it..) it's very realistic that I'll jump on that train - after the next iPad hardware is out, of course 8)



Offline Burning Tires

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 09:48:19 PM »
Nice photoshop work!

I want that, except also with a DAW built in... for a portable touch screen recording/drum module box. :)
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones

Offline ungoliant

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Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 08:20:28 AM »
This would be a grouddbreaking idea  :o
Hellfire, you should apply for a patent before Alesis is thinking making one  ;D

Offline Hellfire

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 09:22:30 AM »
Whhooo... HF you damn witch, you can read my mind!!! ;D ;D
That's not the first time people have accused me of that.  ;)

The iPad itself doesn't necessarily need to have more power, Alesis only has to put the module's brain and interfaces into such a case and send MIDI internally to the pad. As the whole MIDI functionality of OSX is now working in the iPad since IOS 4.2, the rest will be pluggin' together what's already there.
I was thinking it would basically be a souped up type of Trigger I/O, but instead of having the physical interface of the current Trigger I/O, it would use an iPad add to adjust all the I/O settings.

And BFD eco should work, even with an USB-connected external harddisc... :D
Your the first person who has stated to me that something like BFD could run on an iPad. I have posed the idea before to a few people/friends and basically had it shoot down. They claimed the iPad just doesn't have the power it pull it off. I figured it has to be more powerful than the DM10, so at minimum they should be able to emulate that (meaning DM10) on an iPad. At least in my mind that seems possible. ;D

On a side note I think Alesis is missing a very big opportunity if they don't try to go down this road. They already have the experience using dock-able devices and specifically the iPad. It just seems like a no brainer to me.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 09:31:09 AM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 09:54:10 AM »
Your the first person who has stated to me that something like BFD could run on an iPad. I have posed the idea before to a few people/friends and basically had it shoot down. They claimed the iPad just doesn't have the power it pull it off. I figured it has to be more powerful than the DM10, so at minimum they should be able to emulate that (meaning DM10) on an iPad. I least in my mind that seems possible. ;D

If you look at the bandwith of music-related apps and in particular at those which are now complete DAWs incl. wav-file libraries then it's not really impossible. Sure, it has to be an app with all the ridiculous limitations by Apple, but such a development is far away from being impossible. The processor is fast, the graphics are fast enough and the necessary interfaces, both hard and soft, are there.

Only one thing that needs more power is a specialized audio chip, but i believe a DSP chip in the iPad is no argument against it - exactly the opposite is true 8)

Peter Kirn's site Create Digital Music is a good source for keeping you up-to-date on iPad and music.

But wait: there's the real proof that your design is no passing craze here at FXpansions forum:




Offline DeeDubs

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 10:30:05 AM »
HF, you are definitely onto something.. fusing a TriggerIO into the iPad dock might be a feasible way to run a vst drum program conveniently.. and the iPad devices will only get faster over time..

I just picked up a new Laptop and one of the things I'm looking to do is run BFD (I have Eco version now) along with the DM10 at shows. Bluejay is good, but I want more sounds and variable hats. Something like your suggestion would definitely streamline things.
Bashing away on: Alesis DM10 Pro Kit w/ Bluejay soundset, Yamaha DTXM12, Addictive Drums, Gibraltar Cage & old skool Ludwig Maple Kit.


Check out my silly mug with "So What" at http://www.sowhatct.com

Offline Guinness

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 12:21:15 PM »
That would be AWESOME!  (nice photoshop work, HF)
 
As for not being powerful enough...  couldn't the sound card (or whatever isn't powerful enough) be external from the ipad itself?  It could be internal to the base, just not in the ipad itself.  ??
 
HF...  PM Dan and make certain he see's this thread.  :)
 
Also... to think they haven't thought of this already is somewhat niave.  But I will say...   if they came out with this (even a DM10 soundset version to start), I'd buy one immediately! 
 
BFD is a massive program right?  But that's just all the possible voices.  Couldn't that be held in an external  drive (again inside the base housing).   I guess the question is...  does the ipad have enough internal memory to run a quality VST?  I assume the processor is fast enough, and the busses have enough bandwidth... but I could be very wrong about that.   It would also need to run iTunes at the same time.   Any DAW would be great too.  So, that's three proggy's running at once.   Although, imo, the DAW is optional; itunes is not.  :)
 
Man...  a gui-friendly module... that'd sell like hotcakes!  Dan, just send my Resume directly to you?   ;D
 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 12:23:39 PM by Guinness »

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 12:57:02 PM »
Here's another example what's available on the market by now and why Alesis should hurry up: the Akai Synthstation49

Offline Hellfire

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 01:02:53 PM »
Here's another example what's available on the market by now and why Alesis should hurry up: the Akai Synthstation49
Just an FYI: Akai and Alesis are one and the same company. ;)

I believe the parent company is Numark.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 01:06:37 PM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 01:03:48 PM »
I was thinking it would basically be a souped up type of Trigger I/O, but instead of having the physical interface of the current Trigger I/O, it would use an iPad add to adjust all the I/O settings.

That's why I had added the MIDI control surface functionality to our wish list ;)
If you could send MIDI notes or CCs from most of the knobs, buttons and faders on the module, you can use this for controllig all the internal parameters.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 01:11:46 PM »
I just had a thought. If Alesis ever did do this, they most likely would use a multi connector and a cable snake instead of all the 1/4" inputs. It would keep the cost down and make more room in the dock itself for other things.

Almost forgot, they would have to add module mount holes to the bottom of the dock as well. ;)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 01:13:26 PM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 01:14:25 PM »
Just an FYI: Akai and Alesis are one and the same company. ;)

You see: Because I've forgotten this little important info my demand for it is much higher ::)

Offline Burning Tires

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 01:28:43 PM »
Here's another example what's available on the market by now and why Alesis should hurry up: the Akai Synthstation49

That's an interesting product! Seems to confirm that the ipad can handle midi notes from a controller to trigger an ipad-based synth app... how much more would it take to do a drum module app? This controller already has 9 drum pads on it. Someone can test this now for latency. :) The key difference seems to be using a virtual synth vs. a virtual sampler. That is, the synth generates sounds (not as realistic as samples for drum sounds).

I like how things are getting more interesting for us e-drummers every week!
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones

Offline Yankee

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 02:13:47 PM »
First... Hats off to the PS work HF... very nice!

If this doesn't scream "Build it and they will play it" I don't know what would...  8)
E-Kits: Alesis DM10 Studio, Alesis DM5, Alesis DM6 w/ DIY Mesh Conversion's
A-Kits: Gretsch Catalina Maple 6pc Cherry Red; 64 Slingerland 4pc Gold Sparkle

Offline Dan @ Alesis

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2011, 02:18:33 PM »
I have no comment.




But I will include a very emphatic smiley.  ;D
Dan Radin

Technical Support --> http://www.alesis.com/content1024
Pricing / Retailers --> http://www.alesis.com/content4894

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2011, 02:34:10 PM »
Seems to confirm that the ipad can handle midi notes from a controller to trigger an ipad-based synth app

The iPad has the full CoreMIDI functionality of the Mac's since the latest IOS update to 4.2. There are several MIDI connectors available for the dock interface, like the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer, the iConnectMIDI and of course the Alesis StudioDock :D

You could also use the Wireless connectivity with frameworks like OSC to send/receive MIDI to all MIDI-compatible apps.

Offline Guinness

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 02:52:49 PM »
I have no comment.
But I will include a very emphatic smiley.  ;D

So, can I place my pre-order now?    ;D

Offline Dan @ Alesis

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2011, 02:57:22 PM »
Seems to confirm that the ipad can handle midi notes from a controller to trigger an ipad-based synth app

The iPad has the full CoreMIDI functionality of the Mac's since the latest IOS update to 4.2. There are several MIDI connectors available for the dock interface, like the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer, the iConnectMIDI and of course the Alesis StudioDock :D

You could also use the Wireless connectivity with frameworks like OSC to send/receive MIDI to all MIDI-compatible apps.

My understanding is that Bluetooth doesn't have enough error correction for MIDI. It might work for drums, since we don't send much note-off info, but it probably wouldn't work for something like a synth.

Our sister company, ION, showed an arcade console for iPad called the iCade, at CES. (http://www.ionaudio.com/icade) It's Bluetooth, but HID (like a computer mouse), not MIDI, since the data for old-school game control is pretty simple compared to musical instrument MIDI device.
Dan Radin

Technical Support --> http://www.alesis.com/content1024
Pricing / Retailers --> http://www.alesis.com/content4894

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 03:29:59 PM »
Thanks for the smiley, Dan! ;D

My understanding is that Bluetooth doesn't have enough error correction for MIDI. It might work for drums, since we don't send much note-off info, but it probably wouldn't work for something like a synth.

I totally agree with you about the Bluetooth reliability, but I wanted to spot the WiFi connectivity together with the OSC framework, utillizing the UDP protocol in WLANs. One of the most common apps is TouchOSC. I'm controlling several DAWs and VSTs with my iPod and it's stunning easy to use ;)

There are also some early products which use a Wireless MIDI approach, like the AirPower from Starr Labs or The Missing Link.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 03:36:45 PM by vaikl »

Offline Dan @ Alesis

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2011, 04:23:42 PM »
Again, no comment.  8)
Dan Radin

Technical Support --> http://www.alesis.com/content1024
Pricing / Retailers --> http://www.alesis.com/content4894

Offline Hellfire

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2011, 04:32:43 PM »
Seems to confirm that the ipad can handle midi notes from a controller to trigger an ipad-based synth app

The iPad has the full CoreMIDI functionality of the Mac's since the latest IOS update to 4.2. There are several MIDI connectors available for the dock interface, like the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer, the iConnectMIDI and of course the Alesis StudioDock :D

You could also use the Wireless connectivity with frameworks like OSC to send/receive MIDI to all MIDI-compatible apps.

My understanding is that Bluetooth doesn't have enough error correction for MIDI. It might work for drums, since we don't send much note-off info, but it probably wouldn't work for something like a synth.

Our sister company, ION, showed an arcade console for iPad called the iCade, at CES. (http://www.ionaudio.com/icade) It's Bluetooth, but HID (like a computer mouse), not MIDI, since the data for old-school game control is pretty simple compared to musical instrument MIDI device.
Okay, who told you that my other hobby is classic arcade machines? I'm sold, I want one. Hey isn't that guy on the iCade video the same guy playing the DM10 prokit in your guys video?
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Dan @ Alesis

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2011, 06:14:22 PM »
Hey isn't that guy on the iCade video the same guy playing the DM10 prokit in your guys video?

Good eyes. Yes, that's Gregg Stein, who is the head of ION. He and worked together at Zildjian and we're both Berklee grads.
Dan Radin

Technical Support --> http://www.alesis.com/content1024
Pricing / Retailers --> http://www.alesis.com/content4894

Offline vtdrummer

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2011, 07:03:22 PM »
@Dan:  How long ago were you at Berklee?  A friend of mine went there, a great drummer and musician, who now plays in a band near Boston.  Wondering if you might know him.
DM10 Studio 2011 w/Surge Cymbals added, BB Mesh head conversion w/rubber muffs at bottom, one 12" A-E pad, Simmons DA200S, sometimes using 2 satellite speakers... Simmons SDMP-1 Multi-pad.
See my DIY 12" Acoustic to E-Drum project post here: http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=1227

Offline vaikl

Re: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 08:05:20 PM »
Because I had mentioned Peter Kirn's site earlier, here's his brand new article on what's possible with iPad and MIDI today (just as if we had ordered it ;)):
How to use MIDI to make an Ipad more musically
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 08:12:08 PM by vaikl »