Author Topic: Super Secret Alesis DMdock drum module? (Read 29208 times)

vtdrummer · « **Reply #50 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:24:55 PM »

vaikl: Thanks for the info. I'm not opposed to using anything... just curious as I'm an IT and software development guy who's worked with everything BUT ipads & macs, etc., so I really don't know too much about what they offer... only a thimble-full of knowledge.

Hellfire · « **Reply #51 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:57:23 PM »

Quote from: vaikl on March 02, 2011, 07:01:32 PM

But as far as I've read the first comments on the GarageBand app it has no CoreMIDI features, no MIDI at all and no other external triggering options - not even a Logic kernel.

I don't know if this constitutes CoreMIDI, but it sounds like enough midi for it to function.

iPad GarageBand and V-Drums!

vaikl · « **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:04:00 AM »

Quote from: Hellfire on March 10, 2011, 08:57:23 PM

iPad GarageBand and V-Drums!

Yeah, it's great that something with MIDI apparently works

But it still has no MIDI out and no (re-)mapping functions. Anyway - seems funny to play with

Hellfire · « **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:56:31 AM »

Quote from: vaikl on March 11, 2011, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: Hellfire on March 10, 2011, 08:57:23 PM
iPad GarageBand and V-Drums!

Yeah, it's great that something with MIDI apparently works But it still has no MIDI out and no (re-)mapping functions. Anyway - seems funny to play with

I'm just trying to point out that some kind of midi is there. Kind of like an FYI you might say. After all you were the one that stated:

Quote from: vaikl on March 02, 2011, 07:01:32 PM

But as far as I've read the first comments on the GarageBand app it has no CoreMIDI features, no MIDI at all...

You have officially read something to the contrary.

vaikl · « **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Hellfire on March 11, 2011, 08:56:31 AM

You have officially read something to the contrary.

I wrote that I have read some first comments, not official statements (because there are no official statements about MIDI in GB

). And it's still not CoreMidi, it's something.

There are many music applications for iPad, iPhone and iPod on the market which support a very basic set of MIDI commands since years.

TrommelTheo · « **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2011, 05:00:57 PM »

Nice Idea, but not useable for life, there you need knobs and Faders, not touchscreen...
trust me, the first VST-based Drum-Module will come, without Appple I-Pad!
Theo

vaikl · « **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2011, 05:42:45 PM »

Quote from: TrommelTheo on March 11, 2011, 05:00:57 PM

Nice Idea, but not useable for life, there you need knobs and Faders, not touchscreen...
trust me, the first VST-based Drum-Module will come, without Appple I-Pad!
Theo

You mean "live"?

Touchscreens already have hit the music industry and the ability to work wireless with a pocket interface will override the absence of knobs and faders - trust me

BTW: A VSTi-like drum module already exists: DrumIt Five

Guinness · « **Reply #57 on:** March 14, 2011, 07:56:55 PM »

How 'bout this:

ASUS Eee Pad (Eee Slate) EP121-1A011M Tablet PC Intel Core i5 470UM(1.33GHz) 12.1" Wide SVGA 2GB Memory DDR3 1333 32GB SSD HDD Intel HD Graphics $999

vaikl · « **Reply #58 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Guinness on March 14, 2011, 07:56:55 PM

How 'bout this:

If you could put a proper Mac OSX on it and make it two pounds lighter - sure, why not

But you know that it's not a useable multi-touchscreen system, don't you? Windows isn't made for this.

Guinness · « **Reply #59 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:18:54 PM »

I really don't know much about tablets... but how is it not a usable screen?

Why does it need to be lighter, when it would be mounted to a rack? i'm pretty sure my rack can support carry the 5lb load. (guessing on actually weight)

I saw this 'cause it was being promoted for a new version of Win7 (specially designed for tablets or something like that.)

Why Mac OS? Why is that important? Don't VST's run on windows?

vaikl · « **Reply #60 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:55:13 PM »

Quote from: Guinness on March 17, 2011, 07:18:54 PM

I really don't know much about tablets... but how is it not a usable screen?

The advantage of modern touch screen tablets lies in multitouch-ability, in gestures that you can draw with more than one finger to simulate functions which normally need two/three mouse buttons and some Ctrl/Alt/Menu keys simultaneously.

Windows has slumbered away the development of special OSes like iOS and even the actual version for tablets is lacking performance and functionality.

Quote

Why does it need to be lighter, when it would be mounted to a rack? i'm pretty sure my rack can support carry the 5lb load. (guessing on actually weight)

I don't need a tablet fixed on a rack/stand, I need a portable WiFi solution and lighter means more mobility. Even the size matters in this relation.

Quote

Why Mac OS? Why is that important? Don't VST's run on windows?

Since I've left my PC to go on with my Mac I never again had such really annoying problems with USB drivers or crashing DAWs/plugins which were daily routine on Win. I'm more productive with Mac, that's all (and not worth to start an OS flame-war now

)

Webbee · « **Reply #61 on:** April 25, 2011, 11:44:23 PM »

I'm really hoping someone takes this idea and runs with it. Right now I have my ipad2 being controlled by my drum kat. It works perfect but the sounds in Garage Band are pretty limited. The variable hihat even works. I'm sure it's just a mater of time before someone writes this app. Using this new dock, my drum kat and a sweet drum sound app would be such a nice setup.

AWDV8 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 01, 2011, 05:56:48 PM »

I just won an iPad 2 through a webinar I attended. Looks like the alesis io dock will work, but as webbee mentioned, we need a better app / program!

vaikl · « **Reply #63 on:** June 01, 2011, 06:22:55 PM »

Quote from: AWDV8 on June 01, 2011, 05:56:48 PM

I just won an iPad 2 through a webinar I attended. Looks like the alesis io dock will work, but as webbee mentioned, we need a better app / program!

Won't take long 'til some of the big players go ipad, but keep in mind that 64GB isn't that much for the *real* sounds...

Hellfire · « **Reply #64 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:59:42 PM »

Quote from: vaikl on June 01, 2011, 06:22:55 PM

...but keep in mind that 64GB isn't that much for the *real* sounds...

You know back in 1998 the DMPro came out with 16MB (yes MB) of *real* sounds. The DM10 has 8 times that amount at 128 MB and we are still told it is not enough for *real* sounds. Yet I turn on my DM10 and I hear real sounds. I can do a lot of real sounds with 64GB. Just because there is not a butt load of memory to have a sample with every possible mic position and ambient mic placement doesn't mean there isn't enough memory for *real* sounds.

I guess it all comes down to the way a user thinks edrums should be handled. If we are looking for perfect acoustic reproduction and if one believes that 127 samples (24 bit 96khz) for each velocity at several different locations on the same drum and then duplicate that for several mic positions and duplicate that again for several different heads, damping, and head tightness, then I guess we are nowhere near where we need to be to get a real sound. Heck, you would probably need at least 100+GB or more per drum/cymbal to get that kind of *real* sound.

I guess more is always better but, it is not necessary needed to have real sounds. And believe me, I would love to have 64GB in my DM10 for sound files. I guess real sound is in the ear of the beholder. Just a thought.

vaikl · « **Reply #65 on:** June 01, 2011, 09:11:23 PM »

Phil, you know that's a nearly endless discussion

but I really enjoy it.

I'm just thinking back to my old years in the 80's when I bought my first machine, the SR-16. It was my first choice between several others (Yamaha, Roland, Simmons, Akai) because of the *real* sounds! Plus it was affordable

Now I'm old, sitting in front of gadgets, outgear devices, QuadCores and Terabytes of harddisc space and talking about the *real* sounds again. I know that sounds a little bit arrogant, but I *was* on the search at that time and I *am* on it today.

My post was a bit exaggerated answer to the "GarageBand world" on the ipad which imho never could come close to the DM's and the software in my small database here. The sounds of the DM10 have the right punch, volume and transients for playing with e-pads and I admire the engineers at Alesis for getting all that sound into 128 MB.

But the software simulations we can buy today and we have to load on devices like the ipad all have a "most realistic" approach as a selling point. There are no onboard trigger circuits in a PC or touchpad, so the simulation has to calculate and compute with external signals/MIDI data, sample files and external I/O processes. That, among other parameters, makes the cake thus big.

And one of the other parameters is ambience. You could use artificial ambience with digital reverbs/eq's like on the DM10 and you could take the "real" thing with perfectly sampled room recordings, as you've described it. If you are trained to hear Neil's, Vinnie's or Simon's sound and play, you'll certainly hear the difference between the module and a 200 Gb sample library from them.

Maybe the best advice to sound addicts would be to take the module's possibilities and create an own, special sound with them. And this is really easy to achieve with the DM10.

Hellfire · « **Reply #66 on:** June 01, 2011, 11:32:47 PM »

Quote from: vaikl on June 01, 2011, 09:11:23 PM

Phil, you know that's a nearly endless discussion but I really enjoy it.

I had a feeling you liked that kind of discussion. I almost didn't post anything and then I thought, he has to know this is basically going to keep on if someone responds so, I figured, why not.

You are correct, it is an endless discussion. And like I said earlier, it really comes down to the end users expectations of what edrums mean to him/her. If edrums are meant as perfect acoustic reproduction and thus should play as such, then you are correct, more memory is needed. If you look at edrums as its own instrument and part of the art is making do with the limits of that instrument (which is the case for all instruments) then a few hundred megs should work just fine (assuming I can tweak things like pitch, decay, attack etc.).

In a way edrums stopped being edrums when companies moved to sample based systems. The old Simmon drums didn't use samples. It was basically a synth that you hit with a stick. Because of that, the dynamics changed based on how hard you hit a pad. Those edrums were their own instrument and were never confused for the real thing. Today that line has blurred some because the idea now is edrums should be interchangeable with acoustic drums.

I wish I could find this drum program that I saw a couple years ago. It was a non-sample based drum software but sounded pretty darn real. Instead of samples the program used sound program algorithms based on the material structure of the drum (which the user would input). The whole program was actually pretty small. I really thought this was the way edrums should go because it was very dynamic based on how you played. I just can't find the damn link.

AWDV8 · « **Reply #67 on:** June 02, 2011, 09:29:36 AM »

Along these notes, what about something like addictive drums? I can't remember how much space it needs but can't be anywhere NEAR 64GB, or even 16GB for that matter!

drumday · « **Reply #68 on:** June 02, 2011, 11:36:49 AM »

Great discussion. Might I add that at my age, I have lost some hearing accuity, so the more is better has some diminishing returns for me as a consumer. For a young person or an engineer, the pursuit of better design and increasing capability is a good thing; I'm certainly the benefitiary of that pursuit in the DM10.

Sichris29 · « **Reply #69 on:** June 02, 2011, 03:19:40 PM »

64GB would give you thousands of sounds at LOSSLESS quality lol. I would be massive overkill to have 64GB of memory! I would love for there to be around 2 or 3 Gigs but its not a deal breaker though.

vaikl · « **Reply #70 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:26:45 PM »

Quote from: AWDV8 on June 02, 2011, 09:29:36 AM

Along these notes, what about something like addictive drums? I can't remember how much space it needs but can't be anywhere NEAR 64GB, or even 16GB for that matter!

I want BFD2 on the iPad and I need a minimum 200GB. You see, that's not the point.

AWDV8 · « **Reply #71 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:45:16 PM »

Quote from: vaikl on June 02, 2011, 05:26:45 PM

Quote from: AWDV8 on June 02, 2011, 09:29:36 AM
Along these notes, what about something like addictive drums? I can't remember how much space it needs but can't be anywhere NEAR 64GB, or even 16GB for that matter!

I want BFD2 on the iPad and I need a minimum 200GB. You see, that's not the point.

what? i don't understand what you're saying, although it does sound condescending...
I'm not saying using either of these, just an app that is similar, but maybe with less options to save space. I am no computer wiz but would RAM be a problem?

vaikl · « **Reply #72 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:50:39 PM »

Quote from: Hellfire on June 01, 2011, 11:32:47 PM

I wish I could find this drum program that I saw a couple years ago. It was a non-sample based drum software but sounded pretty darn real. Instead of samples the program used sound program algorithms based on the material structure of the drum (which the user would input). The whole program was actually pretty small. I really thought this was the way edrums should go because it was very dynamic based on how you played. I just can't find the damn link.

You don't mean the V-drum modules with COSM, did you? Others I can think of are Drumaxx or the older DKSpro from AraldFX, both not very intuitive to users.

vaikl · « **Reply #73 on:** June 02, 2011, 06:03:22 PM »

Quote from: AWDV8 on June 02, 2011, 05:45:16 PM

what? i don't understand what you're saying, although it does sound condescending...
I'm not saying using either of these, just an app that is similar, but maybe with less options to save space. I am no computer wiz but would RAM be a problem?

No, I'm not dismissive, I'm trying to say that RAM *is* actual a problem on tablet PC's/touchpads like the iPad, because it's much more expensive than normal PC RAM. And a tablet PC/touchpad is not designed to fulfill special needs only, it is designed as a multi-purpose device and you have to share the memory with Gigs of pictures, movies, sounds and other apps.

Maybe AD will fit on an iPad, but if the customer wants to load BFD or both apps together or more than some selected kits to have them all at hand - then the iPad fails. We have to wait some more years for a affordable device as a replacement for a PC.

chud · « **Reply #74 on:** June 02, 2011, 06:17:11 PM »

What I would be interested in, more than a VST app for iPad, is a user interface for the DM10 that could be much more intuitive and user-friendly than the buttons and menus and scroll wheel on the module. And perhaps it could store user kits as chains that could be changed quickly and easily. I just think the iPad's interface is much better suited for this kind of application than trying to make it something it's not. Most VST-enabled computers, even laptops, have tons more memory and power than an iPad, but I think it could make for a much easier and more efficient module controller/interface.