Author Topic: Custom Sound Sets, Alesis v.s. Pearl, Who will be first! (Read 17068 times)

Hellfire · « **on:** July 09, 2010, 01:35:49 PM »

Okay, the last official word from Alesis was back in May. Alesis basically stated they will be ready when they are ready. Pearl has been saying (since May) that they plan on having the RED Box Sound Shop up and running when ePro hits the stores. Which is now going to be the first or second week of August.

Who do you think will deliver this feature first?

For now this will be a sticky but, once someone releases their website with downloads I will un-sticky this poll.

Rev2010 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2010, 04:14:06 PM »

I wonder if the small 128megs of memory is what's delaying this. It really is a hindrance for the companies they tapped for this task, companies that create large drum libraries of around 30 gigabytes. Granted that's for a few kits but squeezing a single kit down to 128megs must prove a bit of a task for them being I doubt the DM10 supports any type of compression formats, unless Alesis is using their own.

Rev.

Guinness · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2010, 10:30:03 PM »

they should come out with a Memory Upgrade mod. I'd bust out the soldering iron for that (and quality sounds sets).

DeeDubs · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2010, 12:17:06 AM »

I just wanted to chime in for a sec..

My biggest beef at this point is the feeling of being "out of the loop"..
We used to hear from the alesis folks, but the status reports stopped coming a while back. Whether they are having technical or non technical (lawyer?) issues, let us know something, anything, so we don't bitch for nothing..

A 'beta' kit would be nice as well, just to play around with the functionality, even if it's not ready for prime time, and even if you only let a few of us have it to report out audio or video to the rest of us.

Hellfire · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2010, 01:08:32 AM »

Quote from: Guinness on July 09, 2010, 10:30:03 PM

they should come out with a Memory Upgrade mod. I'd bust out the soldering iron for that (and quality sounds sets).

Never happen. I've seen the inside of the DM10. All surface mount components and no obvious slots or sockets for upgrading. They most likely would come out with a higher end module that would be based around the DM10 architecture before they tried offering an upgrade. Plus an upgrade would be a support nightmare for Alesis. Can anyone say DMPro?

Guinness · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2010, 01:06:49 AM »

Quote from: DeeDubs on July 10, 2010, 12:17:06 AM

I just wanted to chime in for a sec..

My biggest beef at this point is the feeling of being "out of the loop"..
We used to hear from the alesis folks, but the status reports stopped coming a while back. Whether they are having technical or non technical (lawyer?) issues, let us know something, anything, so we don't bitch for nothing..

A 'beta' kit would be nice as well, just to play around with the functionality, even if it's not ready for prime time, and even if you only let a few of us have it to report out audio or video to the rest of us.

Yes, an update would be welcome.

DeeDubs · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2010, 11:04:13 AM »

So, after wondering about the memory size, and reading the blasts on how 128 is miniscule, I google'd around trying to find a formula for how much sound data 128MB could fit. I finally found a formula :

size = sample rate * number of channels * (bits per sample /8) * time in seconds.

So a 44.1 hHz, stereo 16 bit wav file lasting 60 seconds should be :

Size = (44.1 * 2 * (16/8) * 60) / 1024
Size = 10,3359 MB

so 128MB of storage should give roughly 12 minutes of CD quality uncompressed audio. For one kit that should be pretty damn good if managed well..

Some thoughts on memory management in the DM10:

I wonder if the 3rd party developers can allow kits to be configured, then 'bundled' and uploaded to the DM10. That would eliminate wasting space on sounds that the user doesn't want.. Another thought might be something like a zip utility that compresses the sounds not in use on the fly to free up memory..

Damn I wish someone would drop some news on this.. I see Addictive Drums on sale for $129 @ guitar center and I'm getting pretty itchy..

Rev2010 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2010, 12:49:57 PM »

Quote from: DeeDubs on July 20, 2010, 11:04:13 AM

so 128MB of storage should give roughly 12 minutes of CD quality uncompressed audio. For one kit that should be pretty damn good if managed well..

Oh it's definitely possible to get a good sounding kit in there. No one said it can't be done with 128megs and I think the reason for most bitching about it simply comes down to how dirt cheap memory is these days. And for a company buying bulk it's sooo much cheaper. So why not throw 1gb in there and just charge $50 extra or so?? Makes NO sense whatsoever that a company would use 128megs as the amount of "expansion" memory in today's technological market and with the intent of loading hyper real kits.

Just to point one more thing out, try not to think of it so linear. Remember for a hyper realistic kit you need many layers of velocity so consider every sound having , let's just say for now, 10 files each. Cymbals especially take more space because of their long decay times. But yeah, it surely can still be done. If we start thinking about 32 layers of velocity or more forget about it.

And a final point, while a great sounding kit surely can fit in 128megs that still likely means only one or two kits max can be loaded. And I'm of the assumption that we won't have the ability to load separate pieces, though we won't know until these kits are out. So you may love the toms, hate the snare, love the kick, hate the hihat, etc. Not sure they'd really be able to offer kits with several different kit pieces options.......
.........
................
........................ unless of course they release sets with absolutely miniscule velocity layers in comparison to the current module sounds. But that would defeat the purpose a bit I think.

Rev.

Hellfire · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:26:01 PM »

Quote from: Rev2010 on July 20, 2010, 12:49:57 PM

Quote from: DeeDubs on July 20, 2010, 11:04:13 AM
so 128MB of storage should give roughly 12 minutes of CD quality uncompressed audio. For one kit that should be pretty damn good if managed well..

Oh it's definitely possible to get a good sounding kit in there. No one said it can't be done with 128megs and I think the reason for most bitching about it simply comes down to how dirt cheap memory is these days. And for a company buying bulk it's sooo much cheaper. So why not throw 1gb in there and just charge $50 extra or so?? Makes NO sense whatsoever that a company would use 128megs as the amount of "expansion" memory in today's technological market and with the intent of loading hyper real kits.

Just to point one more thing out, try not to think of it so linear. Remember for a hyper realistic kit you need many layers of velocity so consider every sound having , let's just say for now, 10 files each. Cymbals especially take more space because of their long decay times. But yeah, it surely can still be done. If we start thinking about 32 layers of velocity or more forget about it.

And a final point, while a great sounding kit surely can fit in 128megs that still likely means only one or two kits max can be loaded. And I'm of the assumption that we won't have the ability to load separate pieces, though we won't know until these kits are out. So you may love the toms, hate the snare, love the kick, hate the hihat, etc. Not sure they'd really be able to offer kits with several different kit pieces options.......
.........
................
........................ unless of course they release sets with absolutely miniscule velocity layers in comparison to the current module sounds. But that would defeat the purpose a bit I think.

Rev.

Good point Rev.

Of course the stock sounds are only about 3-4 layers deep and they use the Dynamic Articulation to make up the rest. They will never be as good as the VST on a computer but, if they made sounds that were 6 layers deep with good dynamic articulation, they should be able to fit a couple options in there. I don't need 32 layers to fool an audience of music goers that my kit sounds real. Only other drummers are going to notice that. I'm not playing to other drummers, I'm playing to the audience at the bar/club.

You know, now that I think about it. What would be really cool is if you could load new kits (VST like one) off the USB port on the fly. Then you could take a couple with you to a gig. Between sets you should have enough time to load them up. Then again, I guess you could just take a laptop but, then you defeat the purpose of using the DM10 at the gig.

Guinness · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:46:46 PM »

Speaking of USB, could kits be stored on a memory stick, plugged into the module, and this could be the "memory" needed for big/multiple kits?
(as opposed to just loading from USB as you mentioned, HF)

Patience is not my strong suit, but I can wait. It would be nice if ANY sort of update was provided by either company (Pearl or Alesis).

Rev2010 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:52:21 PM »

Quote from: Guinness on July 20, 2010, 01:46:46 PM

Speaking of USB, could kits be stored on a memory stick, plugged into the module, and this could be the "memory" needed for big/multiple kits?

Well the port is a USB "hub" type port so it wouldn't accept a memory stick as is. I'm not sure if a simple converter cable would be able to connect a memory stick but since most printers today can take an SD card I'd guess it may be possible. One thing is for sure the unit would likely need a firmware update to be able to recognize memory sticks. I really don't think this will happen though, and to be honest if Alesis really wanted to get off the shitter and start doing some serious improvements to ensure their survival in the E-Kit market their first move should be to incorporate aftertouch!

You make a great point though, actually it's rather brilliant while being obvious and already done by others. Alesis really should have put a standard USB port on the DM10 specially for housing these kits on one's memory stick. This way they don't have to worry about putting huge amounts of memory in the DM10 but rather have them housed on an added memory stick that the user provides. Most these days are fast enough to offer streaming right off the stick as well.

I really do love Alesis, Roland, and Yamaha. I've owned VERY many of their products over the years. But all these companies really need some new staff in charge of new products that take advantage of today's tech. Some of these companies are ridiculously behind the times.

Rev.

Hellfire · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:39:16 PM »

Quote from: Guinness on July 20, 2010, 01:46:46 PM

Speaking of USB, could kits be stored on a memory stick, plugged into the module, and this could be the "memory" needed for big/multiple kits?
(as opposed to just loading from USB as you mentioned, HF)

Patience is not my strong suit, but I can wait. It would be nice if ANY sort of update was provided by either company (Pearl or Alesis).

Loading into the USB via a memory stick is what I meant in the first part. Sorry, I should have been more clear. Then the thought hit me to just take a laptop since we can not do the whole memory stick thing. But yes, we are in agreement.

Rev2010 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:38:29 PM »

Quote from: Hellfire on July 20, 2010, 03:39:16 PM

Then the thought hit me to just take a laptop since we can not do the whole memory stick thing. But yes, we are in agreement.

Heh, ya know as much as I too wish to just be able to use a module and have awesome sounds, it's really not that much of a problem to bring a good laptop with good sound card loaded up with a Toontrack or BFD or whatever companies product. My DFH Superior blows away all the modules out there in sound. I also have the Custom Vintage expansion and both of those together are enough to create several amazing kits.

Of course... using a laptop always carries the possibility of a crash, but as an IT Tech for a living I'm quite damn good at tweaking out a system and setting it up to only run what's needed and avoid 98% of the crashes. Actually maybe even 100% as my DAW running XP and Cubase SX3 has never fatally crashed on me yet after years of use.

Rev.

Hellfire · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2010, 03:56:50 PM »

Posted just yesterday on PearlDrummersForum.com:

Quote from: Bob Sabellico - Product Manager - Pearl Electronic Percussion Division

Great News !!

E Pro is on the way and will be in stores on August 6th.

Also www.redboxsoundshop.com will be up and running for you to check out some of the kits available from our sound partners.

I wonder who will be first...

Hellfire · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2010, 12:44:57 PM »

One more day...Will Pearl really have www.redboxsoundshop.com up and running tomorrow? Will Alesis have something up and running like REDBox soundshop by tomorrow? I guess we will have to wait one more day to find out.

Rev2010 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2010, 04:27:59 PM »

I seriously doubt Pearl will have it up tomorrow. They'll probably posted a delay notice. But who knows, we'll see.

Rev.

Hellfire · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2010, 09:18:25 AM »

Quote from: Rev2010 on August 05, 2010, 04:27:59 PM

I seriously doubt Pearl will have it up tomorrow. They'll probably posted a delay notice. But who knows, we'll see.

Rev.

You might be right Rev. As of 9:05am EDT, the Sound Shop is not up and running. I guess I will check back later to see if anything has changed.

ghostman · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2010, 12:04:28 PM »

Still says coming soon..

DeeDubs · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2010, 01:28:48 PM »

(YAWN)

Pier · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2010, 04:22:28 PM »

I'd be more interested in seeing more activity on the ALESIS website...

Hellfire · « **Reply #20 on:** August 06, 2010, 05:33:44 PM »

Quote from: Pier on August 06, 2010, 04:22:28 PM

I'd be more interested in seeing more activity on the ALESIS website...

I think all of us would.

I guess Pearl has till midnight to roll out the site but, I really doubt it will happen today. You never know so, I guess I will check back later.

Burtmeister · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2010, 12:27:23 AM »

Well, as of 12:25 est the sound shop is still "coming soon". I wonder if Pearl is running into the same issues that Alesis supposedly is with things not being just right yet.

Hellfire · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2010, 12:33:21 AM »

Quote from: Rev2010 on August 05, 2010, 04:27:59 PM

I seriously doubt Pearl will have it up tomorrow. They'll probably posted a delay notice. But who knows, we'll see.

Rev.

Well, no go on the Sound Shop (and no notice either). The truth is Rev, like you I never really thought Pearl would have it up and running when they said it would be. I just didn't want to come out of the box looking negative about it. When will they have the sound shop up? Who knows. I have a feeling it will not be for a while and I will guess they will go down the same road Alesis has when it comes to asking about the sound sets. Just a feeling of course. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I really do hope I'm wrong about Pearl and Alesis. It is hard not to feel some what cheated as one of the main reasons for me wanting the DM10 since I heard of it was the ability to upload new sound sets to it. Pearl and Alesis can state all day long about how it works and they've done it (and even shown videos) but, when it comes right down to it, none of that matters because the end user can't take advantage of it. Until it happens, it's nothing more than vapor ware and in my eyes false advertising.

Rev2010 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2010, 10:57:44 AM »

Hey Phil, where are the videos of them loading up soundsets? Do they play the sounds too in the videos? I'd love to see/hear that if you have a link.

Rev.

Hellfire · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2010, 02:11:26 PM »

Quote from: Rev2010 on August 07, 2010, 10:57:44 AM

Hey Phil, where are the videos of them loading up soundsets? Do they play the sounds too in the videos? I'd love to see/hear that if you have a link.

Rev.

They don't have a video showing the upload process. Only videos showing a red box or DM10 with them already installed and playing them. The reason they don't show the upload process is because it take about 20-30 min. for the upload to take place. That is because of the USB connection. Pearl has a NAMM video showing a custom sound set in a red box. Just do a search on you tube. Alesis as a small clip in their promo video on their site which has a custom sound set installed. I believe it is around 3:18 - 4:50. Here is a link to the video:

ALESIS DM10 PRO KIT Introduction

or

Pearl ePro Live Electronic Drums

I know for sure the Pearl video uses a memory switch kit. Memory switch is what Pearl calls their custom sound sets. I'm not 100% sure if the Alesis video is using an actual custom sounds set or just a standard kit. Let me know what you think. The kit in question is close to the 4:50 mark and it isn't played very long.

The Pearl videos are by far the most impressive.