Author Topic: I need help on a decision!  (Read 4350 times)

I need help on a decision!
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:02:50 PM »
Hello everyone, I just joined and I have been reading your posts for sometime,so thanks for all the info.
I have recently just got into e drumming.I am a full time drummer in Branson,Mo.I also get to do a fair amount of studio work here as well,so I thought- Why not try drum software, a computer and the Alesis trigger io?
   I am using all Hart Dynamics drums and cymbals- along with BFD2
 
Here's my problem. I am having a real difficult time with making my drums feel natural to my playing style with the trigger io.I have done about all the tweaking I can do and I am close, but not enough. Because I have such a learning curve,would you suggest that I should purchase a drum module, like the DM10? My thinking is ,is if I can get that to work well,then I can transform that to my drum software and use that for stuff I want to record with. Or do I need a TD12 or 20?I didnt really want to spend the extra money If I didnt have to for those. Anyway thanks for your replies on this. I know it sounds like a basic question,but I'm ready to use my new gear and I'm tired of it not working right :D

Offline Guinness

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 12:11:32 PM »
Question:   what exactly is not working well?   I'm not sure I understand the problem, and/or what you're trying to do.  :)
 
Welcome to the forum, by the way.   ;D

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 12:27:48 PM »
Hi Guiness,and thanks.
Heres what I'm trying to do. I have a macbook pro with 8 gigs of ram,Bfd2 with Hart pro drums and trigger io. I will also be using an Mbox with protools le.I am a newbie with all of this gear and I have a lot to learn. I am wanting to use this gear to record from home or take to studio if necessary.Im just having a hard time using the trigger io and BFD2 ,and making the hi hat feel natural and my trigger zones on the ride cross talk pretty badly no matter what i do! Its just overwhelming me to a degree. I have spent weeks now trying to make it all work but I feel it may be some-what over my head. Thus the reason for possibly buying a dm10 and making my drums feel natural using a module- and then if I'm good at doing that, maybe I'll have a better feel on what to do with BFD2  and so on. Hope that makes sense to ya and thank you!

Offline Pier

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 12:49:32 PM »
Hello and welcome to the forum, first of all!  :)

Maybe mine is a stupid question/observation, but:

- Is there a drummer friend of yours or a "honest" dealer in your zone who can let you just TRY the DM 10?

Should be the best thing to do, on my humble opinion... you could test imediately if the thing is working for you and for your style of playing...

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 12:54:15 PM »
There is a guitar center 45 min away. Maybe I should try that. I just started reading the posts in the vst forum. I still have a lot to learn. I'm sure my trigger io is fine,I'm just not doing something right!  :o

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 01:36:15 PM »
Thanks guys for the replies. The more I'm reading is the more I realize that I need to keep plugging away with my gear and keep learning. I feel like I'm in college trying to learn about Physics or something.hahaha! I am learning a lot by reading the VST forums and stuff. Phil from Hellfire seems to know his stuff! Pretty cool. Anyway, I still may purchase a DM10 just to be able to mix things up and maybe add more inputs with my io. Maybe one day I'll be able to contribute to this forum and be as smart as you guys ;D .

Online Hellfire

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 04:13:40 PM »
Thanks guys for the replies. The more I'm reading is the more I realize that I need to keep plugging away with my gear and keep learning. I feel like I'm in college trying to learn about Physics or something.hahaha! I am learning a lot by reading the VST forums and stuff. Phil from Hellfire seems to know his stuff! Pretty cool. Anyway, I still may purchase a DM10 just to be able to mix things up and maybe add more inputs with my io. Maybe one day I'll be able to contribute to this forum and be as smart as you guys ;D .
I can tell you that you would get a lot more control over your triggers with the DM10. Keep in mind (as I see it) the Trigger I/O is best used as an add-on type device. It does tend to work better with reflection plate type triggers (think yamaha drum pads and Roland Pd series). It also works well with side mount add-on triggers like the Ddrum red shots and of course it works well with Alesis pads because they use a reflection plate set-up in their triggers. I do know that many with Roland dual zone mesh pads have had problems getting it to work good with the Trigger I/O. Hart edrums are made off that design. I do have a Roland mesh cone style type trigger and I found it to work much better with the DM10 than the Trigger I/O. The biggest problem with using Roland mesh head type triggers is the piezo (sensing element) is way too hot for the Trigger I/O. I don't know if all this info helps but, I thought I would put it out there.

BTW, I just thought of something else. If you find a music store that has the DM10 on the floor (call first to make sure) you could always take one of your drum triggers and see if they let you plug it in right there. I would take your snare drum. Some music stores will let you do this but, you will need to ask first.

Offline ghostman

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 05:10:33 PM »
I can tell you that you would get a lot more control over your triggers with the DM10. Keep in mind (as I see it) the Trigger I/O is best used as an add-on type device. It does tend to work better with reflection plate type triggers (think yamaha drum pads and Roland Pd series). It also works well with side mount add-on triggers like the Ddrum red shots and of course it works well with Alesis pads because they use a reflection plate set-up in their triggers. I do know that many with Roland dual zone mesh pads have had problems getting it to work good with the Trigger I/O. Hart edrums are made off that design. I do have a Roland mesh cone style type trigger and I found it to work much better with the DM10 than the Trigger I/O. The biggest problem with using Roland mesh head type triggers is the piezo (sensing element) is way too hot for the Trigger I/O. I don't know if all this info helps but, I thought I would put it out there.

I think the 'too hot' is a good point.  I think Rolands use 35mm piezo's, and Alesis uses 25mm.  Bigger seems to send more signal.  I use 25mm and they work out okay - I am still playing with my 'foam' or 'cone'.

My trigger IO worked okay for hi-hat articulation, and that was using the PinTech hi-hats w/ the controller box.  It's a box with a cable that connects to the footpedal of your hihat stand, so your foot moves a slider pot inside the box.  It worked relatively well.  I've since moved to a pintech hat with the integrated controller, and I haven't dialed it in as well - yet. 

Edrums takes patience to tweak it till it's right!
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 05:16:07 PM »
Thanks guys! Very good info! I am going to try to find a Dm10 And try it out!
I appreciate your replies! Very encouraging stuff! I'll let you guys know what I'll end
up doing

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 06:24:21 PM »
Also,just throwing it out there. Since I have a Hart kit, would it be better for me to grab a td12 since my kit seems to be geared that way? I just don't want to cut corners to sacrafice playability.But I'm all about giving the DM10 a try as well.

Offline ghostman

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 06:41:05 PM »
If you can borrow a module - try anything!
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Online Hellfire

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 08:12:54 PM »
If you can borrow a module - try anything!
Here, here! I agree with ghostman. I don't like telling people what to buy because what works for me doesn't always mean it will work for someone else.

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 08:21:33 PM »
Good advice guys! Very much appreciated! At this time I don't know of anyone around me that is doing this kind of thing,but everything you guys are telling me has been helpful.

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 01:49:05 PM »
Another thing you could also do is call around to local people who give drum lessons and see if they have the setup you are looking to try. Explain what you want to do, and maybe even bring your kit with you if you find someone who uses a trigger io also. Might cost you the price of a lesson, but would save you a 45 minute drive to Guitar Center.

As a last resort you could always take advantage of Guitar Centers 30 day "Satisfaction Guarantee" if you are dead set on getting a new brain. 15% restocking fee if you wanna return the item, don't know if it applies to exchanges though. At least that way you have a few weeks to try it with your setup and see if it feels better. Try the DM10, if it still doesn't feel perfect, exchange for a TD9, decide you like the DM10 better exchange it back. I'm not one for abusing return policies, but the way theirs is written practically begs you to do something like this.

If you do go that route I would the whole grace period to tweak everything I could. I've had my DM10 studio for about 3 weeks now and am still changing settings and how the drums are arranged. I've already done the mesh head conversion, jumped on the Superior Drummer 2 deal, moved the snare to a stand, and have configured the rack in every way humanly possible. Next step is get a pintech hi hat that can be used with a stand and possibly moving the whole kit to stands. I can already see an A to E conversion in the not to distant future...

But basically, I've been struck with drum ADD in order to get the "perfect" setup and feel for me(basically duplicating my acoustic set). Is the kit playable as it is right now? Very much so, and it feels pretty good the way it is. Hell, it was playable right out of the box, but it's still not perfect... Point is, it will take time and money to get that perfect set up just the way you want it. Just make sure that you have a stopping point and not to lose sight of your goal, which in your case is recording  :)

Offline Guinness

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2010, 03:37:53 AM »
I think someone left a comment on my youtube videos that they were going to roland, but decided on the DM10 because of the voices I played.  Not sure if that helps or not...
 
:)
 

Re: I need help on a decision!
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 09:56:02 AM »
Ok guys,so sorry for not replying for a while! Thanks to all who have responded and have helped me. I ended up getting a td 20. Got a pretty good deal on it on ebay used. Anyway my drums are responding so much better now. I'm still having some issues of course using the m box and vsts, but I'm getting closer I feel. I never even got around to hearing the Dm10,but considering the gear I have the td 20 is feeling great. Thanks Quize, for the encouraging words on my goals and such. I'm still not there yet but I'm learning a lot of stuff!