Author Topic: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot  (Read 186 times)

Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« on: January 19, 2025, 06:55:59 PM »
I have a Crimson II kit I purchased used about 9 months ago. Everything has been working great but today the floor tom is only sensing the rimshot.  I've plugged the floor tom cable into a rack tom and the problem remains.  I used a new TRS cable to connect the floor tom pad into the Tom 4 input on the module and that works so the pad is not at fault.  All this indicates to me that the floor tom cable in the harness is bad.  Do I have to replace the entire harness or can I just replace the bad cable in the harness?   Any advice on attempting to repair or replace the cable in the harness connection?

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2025, 09:15:02 PM »
I have a Crimson II kit I purchased used about 9 months ago. Everything has been working great but today the floor tom is only sensing the rimshot.  I've plugged the floor tom cable into a rack tom and the problem remains.  I used a new TRS cable to connect the floor tom pad into the Tom 4 input on the module and that works so the pad is not at fault.  All this indicates to me that the floor tom cable in the harness is bad.  Do I have to replace the entire harness or can I just replace the bad cable in the harness?   Any advice on attempting to repair or replace the cable in the harness connection?

If you purchased New it should be under Warranty..

Unfortunately that's the major issue with DB25 Harnesses and it's hard to diagnose without having a 2nd harness or another module.
The issue could be with the molded 1/4" end..the cable end to the connector/pins..or the Internal Module/connector(female) which is soldered to the Main board and also has a resistor for each Trigger/ solder point ...so there are a lot in the chain that can go wrong.



If you had a 2nd harness and the issue remained it would be at the Module connection or a resistor..if there is no issue  with the 2nd harness then the probability is the Harness.
The connection (male/pins) from the harness into the module is molded so there is not much you can do there other than using a Multi-Meter and checking continuity between the 1/4 male end and the pin assignments and if the cable end is bad solder another TRS Male on.
The cable could also have pulled away from the Pins.I have seen many of the Harnesses including some I have that the insulator has pulled away from the 25 Pin connector Molded Housing,exposing the wires..typically Black/Red/White and become a very weak point.
Trying to pry it open will only make matters worse and probably ruin other connections.
Medeli DD650 (Command,Crimson,II,DM10 Studio MKII,Forge) all use the same DB25 Harness..the difference between them is/was Firmware/Hardware and Triggers.



You could try and unplug/plug a few times and see if that helps with the contact (if that is the issue)
Also to double check and make sure...I posted years ago how you can place the Medeli DD650 Modules into Test Mode..and test the trigger if the harness is good , however it doesn't help much if you are sure the trigger is working properly and aren't sure if the issue is the Module connection or the DB25 Harness.
That's the Major problem with DB235 harnesses..if you stretch a cable to far..or pull too hard they are easily damaged.
If you connect to the module and are a little off and force it.. you bend/break pins..if it's a resistor that went bad you won't know without tearing the Module down and equipment for checking.

Medeli DD650 (Command,Crimson,II,DM10 MKII Studio ,Forge)  Module Test Mode ...

Press and Hold Down+Up buttons simultaneously while powering on ..you'll see the Alesis splash screen..Firmware Version .. "Booting"..
Then you'll see the main menu ...use the up/down buttons to maneuver...press down to pad test which is #2...press enter
There will be a PAD... and Value...
The "Pad" will show which trigger is being hit or in this case pressed..the "Value" will show if the hit is detected and what velocity...a hard hit should show around 127..it should vary with a variety of velocity hits.
To "Exit"..go to 8 erp..the module will power down.

Here is a Link for Warranty Repair

InMusic also started adding third party Repair Centers for "After Warranty"..however I only see 2 currently in the USA and Numerous in Europe.

The bottom line is ..it could be as simple fix (New harness) if you are aware of any damage that occurred to the harness ..otherwise process by elimination or send the module/harness in for repair/service

EDIT:
Added Links..Images
« Last Edit: January 19, 2025, 11:11:23 PM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2025, 09:54:24 AM »
Thanks a million!  This is incredibly useful information.  I'll test continuity and if that's the issue I'll seek a new harness.  I did buy the set used so no warranty. Thanks again!

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2025, 10:18:29 AM »
Thanks a million!  This is incredibly useful information.  I'll test continuity and if that's the issue I'll seek a new harness.  I did buy the set used so no warranty. Thanks again!

The only issue with the Continuity Test is if the wires are pulled/broken at the DB25  connector..you wouldn't definitely know if it's the Molded 1/4" Male..or at the Pin.You would just be able to determine of the Harness is bad...and if the Harness is Good..and the Trigger is Good...then it may be a Resistor or bad solder joint etc at the connection in the Module



The Harness isn't cheap...I have seen them at a pretty steep price up to $80+ (w/Ship) for Crimson/II...sometimes in the $60 range for a  Command or Forge Module..however as mentioned previously...All the DD650 Modules use the same harness.
Watch out for the Knock Offs using the Printer Type connectors with Screws. 

There are a Bazillion DB25 DIY Solutions on Amazon..the issue would be you need a Housing that fits into the Module Mount..or pry the existing one open and replace the plate...maybe open up all the holes to make the individual cables/Jackets slide in easier.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 10:58:20 AM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2025, 08:18:09 PM »
I just checked continuity on the tom 3 cable and tip ring and sleeve all connect to their associated pin in the DB25.  So the problem is not in the harness.  I may open the module case tomorrow and check the solder connection of DB25 socket to the circuit board.  Maybe I'll get lucky and find a cold solder joint or something.  In the meantime my Tom 4 workaround will have to suffice.  I really appreciate all the information.

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2025, 08:59:29 PM »
I just checked continuity on the tom 3 cable and tip ring and sleeve all connect to their associated pin in the DB25.  So the problem is not in the harness.  I may open the module case tomorrow and check the solder connection of DB25 socket to the circuit board.  Maybe I'll get lucky and find a cold solder joint or something.  In the meantime my Tom 4 workaround will have to suffice.  I really appreciate all the information.

I have gone through this with multiple members..last one was for the Command HH Pedal
Good Harness Continuity etc...he never finished posting if it was ever the pedaL or the Module.

About the only other option not mentioned in the posts..Have you done a Hard Reset?
You can do other Resets in the Menu..however the Hard reset clears the Module..works in a lot of cases especially for those that disconnect triggers while it is power on...you shouldn't connect/disconnect triggers with the Module Powered up..there is Voltage present at the inputs..be it jacks or cables.. ..

Medeli DD650 factory Reset

Press the [<] and [>] buttons simultaneously..while powering on.



Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2025, 10:32:19 PM »
Just performed the factory reset.  No go.  Looks like I'll be opening it up tomorrow.

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2025, 09:17:34 AM »
Did further testing today.  Opened the case and checked continuity of the three Tom3 connections from the female side of the DB25 through each of the associated resistors and that all checks out too.  So the problem is somewhere further down the line and that's well beyond my pay grade.

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2025, 10:35:38 AM »
Did further testing today.  Opened the case and checked continuity of the three Tom3 connections from the female side of the DB25 through each of the associated resistors and that all checks out too.  So the problem is somewhere further down the line and that's well beyond my pay grade.
That's unfortunate.
The DD650 Modules have been very reliable.
I have only seen issues with a Handfull..

It's been awhile since anyone has posted their Firmware Version so I don't know exactly if it has changed for the Newer SE Kits compared to the original CRIMSON II..more than likely not.

I show..
 
CRIMSON
Firmware LDMB V 0.2.4
 
CRIMSON II
Firmware LDMB 1.1.0

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2025, 12:50:17 PM »
My Crimson II also showing LDMB 1.1.0

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2025, 02:02:21 PM »
My Crimson II also showing LDMB 1.1.0

Then it hasn't changed...
The Crimson IIi has been released...It's basically the same Kit as an SE..Different Module.
Alesis is still using Medeli for the Crimson...it has been filled with BFD Kits.
The Module is based on the Medeli DD638...been out for a few years..just not in the US.
I was expecting this Module to be released on another model a couple years ago.

I will post the release shortly
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 02:26:08 PM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2025, 03:34:58 PM »
I'll keep an eye out for it.  Thanks!

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2025, 04:47:31 PM »
I'll keep an eye out for it.  Thanks!

The post is up...I actually seen this version before the Holidays but there wasn't any info released other than a Alesis Crimson III FAQ Page  had been created in Oct 2024.. so I figured Alesis decided to release for NAMM 2025.

Still No Videos

Alesis Crimson III
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 04:57:41 PM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2025, 05:08:41 PM »
Nice looking drum module.  Sure would be nice to be able to buy just the module and harness

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2025, 06:34:06 PM »
Nice looking drum module.  Sure would be nice to be able to buy just the module and harness

I am sure Kits will be split up into Individual pieces on ebay etc.
The Strata Series went out to numerous for Video demos so when it was released there were many Videos...apparently not so much for the Crimson III.
It may be because of it due to not being a Flagship..tho it does fill in the price gap from Nitro to Strata.

The Medeli DD638 has been out for years..the DD650 and DD680 are Newer...both released in 2016..
At that time I was expecting the DD638 to be the DM10 MKII..instead there was a DM10 MKII Studio (DD650) and the DM10 MKII Pro (DD680)
Here is one of my  Posts from 2018

You'll find the DD638 Kits on Reverb..rubber triggers Kits around 8-1,000...mesh about double and shipping from Europe
Not so much as there were so maybe there will be a Licensing issue with the European countries offering on reverb as it appears to be Private Labeled/ Licensed to Alesis now
There is/was also a Deluxe module the DD638DX which has a wood case (simulated?) holds more Kits/Voices..around 100 Kits (50+49) and over 650 Voices....These will not have the BFD Samples....

Technically the Crimson III is New Old Stock...with Designs that are literally 8-10/12 years old.
The DMPad Cymbals have been around since the original DM10 and had actually been discontinued ..The Crimson II Kit (2017)..The Medeli DD638 (2016/2017)..The Crimson III is the only kit with DMPads...it's kind of like the "New" Crimson III is made up from  excess inventory..

You'll also have a DB25 Harness to contend with again...



Medeli DD638DX
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 07:24:51 PM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2025, 07:57:59 PM »
Chaser you certainly are a wealth of information, thanks!  This is all new to me. I've been guitar, bass, keys, vocals since 1968 and have always wanted to play drums.  Last summer I finally just took the plunge and picked up this used Crimson II kit for $400. I could have picked up a new Nitro Mesh or similar for about the same $$ but I liked the size of the pads and cymbals on this kit.  But as you pointed out it is old tech.  I've already had to replace the ride cymbal as the original lost the bow trigger.  Lucky I found a NOS one for about $70.  Now Tom 3 is gone.  I am having a blast with it and my playing is coming along so this one has served its intended purpose, but I can't see putting any more money into it if something else goes south. 

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2025, 08:50:31 PM »
Chaser you certainly are a wealth of information, thanks!  This is all new to me. I've been guitar, bass, keys, vocals since 1968 and have always wanted to play drums.  Last summer I finally just took the plunge and picked up this used Crimson II kit for $400. I could have picked up a new Nitro Mesh or similar for about the same $$ but I liked the size of the pads and cymbals on this kit.  But as you pointed out it is old tech.  I've already had to replace the ride cymbal as the original lost the bow trigger.  Lucky I found a NOS one for about $70.  Now Tom 3 is gone.  I am having a blast with it and my playing is coming along so this one has served its intended purpose, but I can't see putting any more money into it if something else goes south.

You got it for a good price..it's too bad you have had issues with the triggers etc.
Yes it is old Tech for the most part , that's why I didn't post anything about the Crimson III a couple months ago...nothing new except the module.
The Guitar Center here had them for the Holidays and have been selling them for a couple months now.
They have even sold as Used on reverb as long as a month ago..
I asked about the Module being sold separately as I have done business with the Store/Seller before as he gets a lot of returned Alesis..at one point he sold off between 60- 100 STRIKE Modules for $199 ea (I purchased a few) and he said yes if it hadn't sold in a couple weeks and they would part it out...Kit sold for $799.

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2025, 11:15:11 PM »
I found one NOS Crimson II module on ebay but at this point its not worth it for me to put more money into this kit.  I know the cymbals on this kit have been discontinued but what about the drum pads?  And are either the cymbals or the drum pads compatible with any other module, Alesis or other brand?   If I could find say a Roland TD17 module and harness would it work with these pads?  Just trying to think ahead.  And I do like the 12" snare and 10" 'floor' tom pad.

Offline Chaser

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2025, 12:33:21 AM »
I found one NOS Crimson II module on ebay but at this point its not worth it for me to put more money into this kit.  I know the cymbals on this kit have been discontinued but what about the drum pads?

Is your Kit an Original Crimson II..it will have a Knob on the Toms.
This Trigger design (Inner/Outer Pickups/Piezos) was discontinued.
The SE Kits don't have the sensitivity knob and the New Crimson III appears to be an SE Kit.
It also looks like the New Module doesn't support a Continuous/vaiable Hi Hat and has the V2 Pedal.
It's a confusing product page..the large carousel shows pic of the DMHat V2 pedal..the Kit photo shows Realhat V2 Pedal.
The MIDI Map shows Multiple Zone Cymbals and a Dual Zone Hi hat..however the manual also states..

*The Crimson III module supports some functionality that is not present on all included components of your
Crimson III drum kit. For example, the included Ride pad is a triple zone ride that supports Edge, Bow, and
Bell hits, where the crash only supports Bow hits.


Quote
And are either the cymbals or the drum pads compatible with any other module, Alesis or other brand?   If I could find say a Roland TD17 module and harness would it work with these pads?  Just trying to think ahead.  And I do like the 12" snare and 10" 'floor' tom pad.


The Crimson Toms are Piezo/Piezo..and you have Multiple Zone Cymbals Piezo/Switch so compatible with all Alesis Modules and the majority of others..keep in mind not all Alesis or other modules support a Triple Zone Ride or a Continuous/Variable Hi Hat Pedal
The STRIKE and Original DM10 Modules require a Dual Cable Ride..which you may or may not have...some of the Crimson Kits were sold with DMPads that had a dual cable ride with a Dummy Plug in one output.
If you go to a Roland Module or other brands the issue you will have is the Hi Hat pedal..Roland has a different range than Alesis as do some of the others which as mentioned previously may or may not support a Continuous/variable Hi Hat which is what the Crimson II came with.

The pedal may work with a Roland Module but not as well since the Roland range is shorter/smaller....avoid Yamaha..the Module requires triggers with proprietary wiring and is best left alone for those more experienced with what would work with Yamaha.
Also the DB25 Harnesses were made for a particular length and location on a rack , so if your rack is bigger the layout may be smaller...another con with DB25 Harnesses.

The TD-17 Module is older and is still being supported and KV2 Released.. There are numerous Kits available for download in the Roland Cloud.

The TD-17 Module which was Updated to 2.0 (New Kits,New Samples) in 2022 and a recent Update 2.10 in Oct 2024..

The TD-17 also supports a single cable Triple Zone Ride , which a large majority of Modules do not support a Triple Zone Ride at all...but as mentioned previously the Hi hat Pedal response will be different.


EDIT:
I forget to ask...when you did all of the testing for Continuity..
Did you also connect the harness to the PCB Board and check the DB25 Harness resistor side to Tom3 Cable 1/4" TRS male?..ie as one complete circuit.

I had a Module years ago and that was the final diagnosis..I had to use a micro screwdriver and bend the female a little out of shape (oval) so that the male pin made better contact....otherwise it's probably the Module.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 01:37:40 AM by Chaser »

Re: Crimson II Floor Tom only sensing rimshot
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2025, 06:44:07 AM »
No knobs on the Toms so not the original Crimson II.  Good info on the pads and cymbals and hat controlle, thanks.  My drum pads are all two-zone, the crashes are one zone with choke and the ride is the three zone that uses a single TRS cable.    In our trio our drummer plays a couple different cobbled together kits with a TD-17 module.  I think the TD-17 is a bit more flexible than this DD638.  Easier to navigate too.  If this Crimson develops a flaw that makes it unusable then perhaps I?ll just bite the financial bullet and buy one of the new KV2 kits.  I see they have 10? Tom pads. 

Thanks for the tip about continuity testing.  No, I didn?t go that far ? I just inserted a pin in the female side of the DB25 to test  It also occurred to me in the middle of the night that I just did a cursory test with the Fluke set to audible continuity and didn?t check resistance.  I?ll test from plug through the resistor and see if there?s a noticeable difference on this tom3 cable. 

UPDATE: I just finished testing continuity/resistance from the TRS plug through to the resistors on the main circuit board.  All the connections test fine with insignificant resistance.  So the problem is not in the cable, harness or connections.  It was worth a shot!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 09:58:07 AM by GVPencheff »