Author Topic: DM10 MIDI - annoyed.  (Read 4801 times)

Offline ghostman

DM10 MIDI - annoyed.
« on: May 24, 2010, 02:10:09 AM »
Okay, so I have time to mess around tonight, and after about an hour of drumming, I decide to test the DM10 with my Steven Slate Drums and see how it compares to the Trigger IO.  Well, the first thing I do is start hittin' pads and see what sounds are mapped by default - and it's generally good - snare, toms, ride - all already mapped.  then the essential hats.. hit 'em and get a hat kinda sound, and I look at the MIDI note, and I decide I need to play with it.  So, I click down to edit the note, and the edit highlight skips right over the note number..  I am confused, and start looking around for another place to edit the note number..  Then switch to the snare - I can edit that MIDI note number.. WTF..  so, I RTFM.. page 12 - on the line for MIDI Note, there is a Note in parens that reads (and I quote):
(Note: the MIDI note for the hi-hat and ride cymbals is fixed and can not be reassigned).

WHAAAAA??

Now, I still have the trigger IO to fall back on if I want to - or even use MIDI-Pipe to re-route the note number. BUT c'mon!!! The ONLY module I know about that have the MIDI notes fixed is the Roland HD-1.  I cannot believe that Alesis locked down the MIDI notes for specific inputs.  This is really super annoying, and I now cannot strongly recommend the DM10 for VST users now knowing this fact.  Steven Slate Drums, specifically, doesn't allow you to edit note numbers of the drums, so you have to edit your module.
Anyway, that's my rant, and I think it might be very eye-opening for other DM10 advocates on this forum.

I'm gonna go grumble some more..  and read some posts..  Rant OFF.
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Online Hellfire

Re: DM10 MIDI - annoyed.
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2010, 09:52:58 AM »
Okay, so I have time to mess around tonight, and after about an hour of drumming, I decide to test the DM10 with my Steven Slate Drums and see how it compares to the Trigger IO.  Well, the first thing I do is start hittin' pads and see what sounds are mapped by default - and it's generally good - snare, toms, ride - all already mapped.  then the essential hats.. hit 'em and get a hat kinda sound, and I look at the MIDI note, and I decide I need to play with it.  So, I click down to edit the note, and the edit highlight skips right over the note number..  I am confused, and start looking around for another place to edit the note number..  Then switch to the snare - I can edit that MIDI note number.. WTF..  so, I RTFM.. page 12 - on the line for MIDI Note, there is a Note in parens that reads (and I quote):
(Note: the MIDI note for the hi-hat and ride cymbals is fixed and can not be reassigned).

WHAAAAA??

Now, I still have the trigger IO to fall back on if I want to - or even use MIDI-Pipe to re-route the note number. BUT c'mon!!! The ONLY module I know about that have the MIDI notes fixed is the Roland HD-1.  I cannot believe that Alesis locked down the MIDI notes for specific inputs.  This is really super annoying, and I now cannot strongly recommend the DM10 for VST users now knowing this fact.  Steven Slate Drums, specifically, doesn't allow you to edit note numbers of the drums, so you have to edit your module.
Anyway, that's my rant, and I think it might be very eye-opening for other DM10 advocates on this forum.

I'm gonna go grumble some more..  and read some posts..  Rant OFF.
I would bet that those notes are fixed because of the way Alesis had to program the DM10 to work. If they let you change the midi note for the hi-hat it would most likely screw up all the sounds that go with the hi-hat (internally to the DM10). What a support nightmare that would be. I can just hear the support calls now, "I changed my hi-hat midi note and now it doesn't work right, you guys need to fix it!"

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great to have that kind of control but, the DM10 is not an end all to be all drum module. It is what it is for the price. Show me a Roland product that can do what the DM10 can do at the same price. Your not going to. Yes you will find some can do something that the DM10 can't but chances are the DM10 can do things the other can't. It's a push and pull thing. Most VSTs let you change the midi note number. I didn't realize that Steven Slate did not.

May ask why you directed your frustration at the DM10? Why not at Steven Slate drums for not giving you the option to change the midi. My point is, if you believe that Alesis should have put that option in because everybody else has that option, Could that same be said of Steven Slate drums?

Offline ghostman

Re: DM10 MIDI - annoyed.
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2010, 12:41:22 PM »
HF,
 I totally agree with you on all points.  I just posted a review of the DM10 over on my acoustic drumming forum (I am one of a few e-drummers over there, and I do get a lot of questions regarding electronics - http://www.onlinedrummer.com/forum/index.php?topic=30257.0). 
And I give it a glowing review - price per performance is awesome, and I love the module.

And I have posted on the SSD forums asking why they hard-code the note mappings, and got boilerplate answer saying that thats how they guarantee compatibility and QA yada yada yada.  This was mostly meant to be a FYI post, that turned rant!  I was caught off-guard that I couldn't edit those MIDI notes.

I've not used any Roland modules (well, the PM-16, but that was a TMI) and I don't know if any notes are hard-coded or not - except I know the HD-1 is.  Whether the DM10 uses MIDI to trigger internal sounds or not is unknown, but seems a bit silly to tie an external interface to an internal call - that's just the programmer in me.  And really, this is more of an Alesis 'weird one-off' thing.

With the Trigger IO, it was input 4, you can't edit the input to piezo-piezo, it is hard coded piezo-switch.  The DM10 now has a few of these 'one-off' bits - input 7 is dual, but the only one that chokes - but the screen shows it as a single input - that's weird.  The hi-hat isn't dual - the only mono input - that's weird.  And now, the 2 MIDI notes that can't be updated.

I guess I expect to be able to edit everything and move along my merry way doing what I want to do - I suppose in a way, the PM-16 was so generic, that I got spoiled with it's simplicity and therefore flexibility, and I only expect more from products produced 15 years later..

So, I guess, I need to pop over to the 'DM20' thread, and put in some suggestions..

As a programmer, I think it is odd to limit an input to a type, rather than allowing the user to pick a configuration type for an input.  I should be able to duplicate the input 7 settings to other inputs, for example.  I think Roland handles this by allowing the user to 'configure' the pad type they are using for the input, and therefore, the module knows, piezo/switch and choke like settings based on pad type.  If you know the pad type, you can fake the module into different config settings.
Alesis DM10 & Trigger IO, 5 8" single input DIY shells; 2 18" DIY Bass drums, 1 13" DIY eSnare, PinTech 14" Visulaite Hi-Hats, 2 PinTech 14" choke-able crashes & 18" dual-zone ride; Steven Slate Drums EX.  Mounted on Superstrut custom rack.

Offline Guinness

Re: DM10 MIDI - annoyed.
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2010, 12:53:39 PM »
The DM20 is going to be AWESOME!    :D   ;)

Online Hellfire

Re: DM10 MIDI - annoyed.
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 02:24:56 PM »
HF,
 I totally agree with you on all points.  I just posted a review of the DM10 over on my acoustic drumming forum (I am one of a few e-drummers over there, and I do get a lot of questions regarding electronics - http://www.onlinedrummer.com/forum/index.php?topic=30257.0). 
And I give it a glowing review - price per performance is awesome, and I love the module.

And I have posted on the SSD forums asking why they hard-code the note mappings, and got boilerplate answer saying that thats how they guarantee compatibility and QA yada yada yada.  This was mostly meant to be a FYI post, that turned rant!  I was caught off-guard that I couldn't edit those MIDI notes.

I've not used any Roland modules (well, the PM-16, but that was a TMI) and I don't know if any notes are hard-coded or not - except I know the HD-1 is.  Whether the DM10 uses MIDI to trigger internal sounds or not is unknown, but seems a bit silly to tie an external interface to an internal call - that's just the programmer in me.  And really, this is more of an Alesis 'weird one-off' thing.

With the Trigger IO, it was input 4, you can't edit the input to piezo-piezo, it is hard coded piezo-switch.  The DM10 now has a few of these 'one-off' bits - input 7 is dual, but the only one that chokes - but the screen shows it as a single input - that's weird.  The hi-hat isn't dual - the only mono input - that's weird.  And now, the 2 MIDI notes that can't be updated.

I guess I expect to be able to edit everything and move along my merry way doing what I want to do - I suppose in a way, the PM-16 was so generic, that I got spoiled with it's simplicity and therefore flexibility, and I only expect more from products produced 15 years later..

So, I guess, I need to pop over to the 'DM20' thread, and put in some suggestions..

As a programmer, I think it is odd to limit an input to a type, rather than allowing the user to pick a configuration type for an input.  I should be able to duplicate the input 7 settings to other inputs, for example.  I think Roland handles this by allowing the user to 'configure' the pad type they are using for the input, and therefore, the module knows, piezo/switch and choke like settings based on pad type.  If you know the pad type, you can fake the module into different config settings.
I see your point. Keep in mind however that as a programmer you have an understanding that most who use the product do not. Because of that, you are going to want more access to things in the module than others. The things you want come with a price. Again you compared to Roland products when it comes to choosing piezo/piezo or piezo/switch. Roland doesn't allow these option on all inputs. It depends on the model of the module. Normally you would need a Roland TD-12 or TD-20 to get the max flexibility. Both of those modules are much more expensive than the DM10 and they still don't allow 100% total configurable inputs. Just something to keep in mind.

I agree with Guinness that the DM20 is going to be great. I'm glad there are users like yourself who can put these suggestions into the mix.