Sound amplification, which setup?

[ProDigit]

I've never really given it much thought, but playing on average stages, with average volumes (no loud rock/trash/metal/punk stuff here), what kind of sound amplification do I need?

In the studio it's simple, just get 2 studio monitors, of 40 to 80Watts, those should do.
With an 8" cone speaker usually they go downto between 80 and 120Hz, good
enough for studio.

But onstage, there are 2 solutions I'd like to ask your opinions about:

We have a bassist, with a 300W 410 cab, a guitarist with a 50W 2x12" cab (efficient cab for the low power), 2x200W 10" monitors for the singers, and a 12" 120W monitor for the piano.
Also from time to time we have an electronic sax player which plays through a 12" monitor @~150 Watts.

For drums I see I can buy either a single 12" 400W monitor, 2 x 200W 8" monitors, or get a 2.1 system in the likes of 2x50W satellite monitors, and a 100W 10" subwoofer.
Which should I choose?

At the moment the 2x8" setup looks very good, 2x Behringer B208D seems great, as they offer enough power, but two of those speakers are pretty expensive (about $360 total + cables).
I could hear the cymbals more realistically (since I have 2 speakers to give me stereo sound).

The 12" 400W, I could buy a Mackie, or a behringer B212D, should be loud enough, but a single one costs me around $280-300. I'd not have enough money to purchase a second one; PLUS I don't look forward to dragging 2 monsters from hell (weight) with me.

A third option is the 2.1 system, but I've never tried them.
they say if you can run the satellites separately, you are good to go for the studio, and add the 10" subwoofer and you're good to go for live, but I have my doubts that a 100W subwoofer will be enough for live situations.
Also, in many cases the satellites are passive monitors, with the amp built into the sub; which is another con for running them separately.

Ok, I could send the drums through the monitors and mains, but I prefer to have sufficient control of volume on my own monitors first.

A 2.1 system seems to be gotten for $120 to $200 plus cables.

If I'd buy 2x 12" 400W speakers, I probably won't need to go through the mains in many cases, so that one is kind of out of the question.

Question is:
2 or 1x 8" 200W monitor?
or
2.1 system 50+50 +100W?

Anyone experience with some 2.1 systems in live situations?
If so, which ones?
and how much are they?


*Edit: I could also go for 2 x EUROLIVE B205D totalling ~$300; but fear these small monitors don't deliver enough volume for the bass kick.


I'll only be using accoustic sounding drumsets, not really interested in house electronic, or hip-hop/djscratch type of sets.

[Guinness]

You might consider a pair of Simmons 200w speakers.  I have no experience with them, but have read from Rev that the one he has is pretty fantastic.  You could do two for L/R channels.
 
IMO, The challenge for all these speakers is the low end.  80hz-120hz low end isn't that low, and certainly may not have sufficent db's there.

[ProDigit]

Sorry, the specs of the B208D is 65Hz to 20kHz, with a Low EQ of 80hz, and highs of 12kHz.

They are also thought to be pretty punchy, and deliver a clean 200W of power, as behringer's website says.
The monitor you are suggesting seems a tad larger, heavier, and handles about the same power.

*Edit: I saw they lowered the price of the B208D on musiciansfriend to $185,I'm going over for a purchase, perhaps 2 of them!

[Guinness]

Cool.  We'll let us know how it turns out.
 
 

[ProDigit]

Here are my findings; I posted them in this thread

[Jo Bofunkle]

There are quite a few factors that would need to be taken into account when comparing your potential drum amplification needs to that of the other live instruments being amplified already.
1) Is the guitar amp tube or solid state? Obviously a tube amp doesn't require as many watts to get the same power as a solid state amp would need.

2) Same question regarding bass

3) Will you have enough overhead in your amp set up as to give your kit sounds enough room to breathe in the live mix? There is nothing worse than watching a live band using digital equipment without enough power to allow the sound to breathe. Most of the time, in my experience, bands tend to go for budget gear rather than saving up a bit extra for quality purely for the sake of having something. More often than not ending up regretting it and wishing they had indeed saved up bit more.

4) Natural wear and tear of the gear. How often will it be used? Will you have proper storage or protective enclosures for the gear?
Without sufficient protection and storage you greatly reduce the lifespan of your gear so that is another cost to factor in when considering your purchase.

[ProDigit]

1) A tube amp and solid state amp make very little difference.
A tube amp compresses the sound a bit more; nothing you can not achieve with a SS amp with a good compressor!

2) A bass generally has between 300 and 500Watts used onstage. The determining factor is how efficient his cabinet is. At times it is better to play with 300W through an efficient cabinet, than to play with 600W through an inefficient cab. In general though, it does not really matter what type of amp you use or the wattage. Wattage for the most part, gives you a general direction of how loud the sound is.
Since most people know how a 500W amp sounds, but don't know how loud a 500W amp is through a cabinet rated 103dB SPL @1w/1m, it makes more sense to just keep the tech talk in the background and focus on what most people do know.

3) With 2 x 200W 12" monitors you generally have enough headroom onstage. That's why I suggested a double Samson Auro D412, which has 400W of power, is budget friendly, and LOUD!
Having these assures you you have sufficient headroom for the same price as the Behringer B210D @200W (or even cheaper than the B212D @400W).
With the dual samsons you barely will be running at half the powerlevels.

4) Samson has polyvinyl housing and a digital amp; They are considered durable. So far men estimate that digital poweramps last about 10.000 operating hours. More than SS amps!
But since Digital amps are fairly new, not much is known about them.
If they are anything like PC CPU's, they might even last upto 5 times longer than that!

Stage monitors are good purchases! They are roadready.