Trigger I/O 2.0..What do you want to see?

[Hellfire]

I wanted to start a topic about a possible Alesis Trigger I/O ver. 2.0. It isn't a real product but I figured we have a Alesis DM20...What would you like to see? topic so, why not one for a new Trigger I/O. I know what you are thinking, "Just update the current Trigger I/O". I really think the reason we haven't seen much in the way of updates for the Trigger I/O is because of the lack of user interface. An example of what I'm talking about can be read in this post:

http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=39.msg3468#msg3468

With that said I would like to offer up a couple of ideas for the new Trigger I/O Ver. 2.0.

1) A slightly expanded display. Instead of the 3 character LED display, maybe a custom LCD display that can display a few more options.
2) A trigger "A" "B" zone selection switch would be nice.
3) Note chase "on" "off" switch
...More to come later...

[Arr0wHead]

Hi Hat calibration that works,  and doesn't freeze up the unit.

Make every input selectable between ss, pp,  sp,  ps,  etc...  - no more weird input for the ride

Allow us to use the usb cable while still powering the device via AC adapter.  This takes the load of the PC's power supply,  and also makes it a lot easier to 'reset' the device when the Calibration bug hits.

MORE INPUTS!!!! I'm a greedy guy,  I know.  I'm already set up with Hats,  2 Chinas,  3 Crash,  2 Splash,  Ride,  Ride bell,  3 Toms,  Bass,  Snare,  and Sidestick,  and I still feel like I need MORE.  Sadly,  My actual acoustic kit was never this big...  lol.

[ghostman]

jeeez.. I'd basically just reiterate what Arrow just said.  Every input configurable - that should just be true of the IO AND the DM10.

As I learned from another thread, I'd like a patch manager program.  The DM10 and the IO are so different.  Every one of the IO's 20 setup's are configured individually - I'd like a way to copy setup's from set to set.

[Hellfire]

..Every one of the IO's 20 setup's are configured individually - I'd like a way to copy setup's from set to set.

I agree but a more robust user interface would help greatly with this idea.

[audiopat]

Always nice to have a wishlist!
Hmmm...
People have mentioned more inputs, but I think that a couple of inputs dedicated to CC messages would be great. Imagine building drums that could use FSRs, or building customized MIDI controllers, or... Well, I'm sure you could come up with ideas of your own.
And supposedly Roland has a patent on positional sensing, -which is ridiculous, IMHO- but a calculated CC output beween input 1 and 2 of any given input would blow the trigger IO wide open.
Added to Hellfires improved interface, I would love to see a software based sysex editor.   
My 2 ZAR

[ghostman]

..Every one of the IO's 20 setup's are configured individually - I'd like a way to copy setup's from set to set.

I agree but a more robust user interface would help greatly with this idea.

And no more random number levels.
What is it with gain going from 3 to 20, and sensitivity using a different scale, and each setting has it's own scale??  the DM10 is 1-100 for everything.  makes sense.

[zendrumdude]

Make every input selectable between ss, pp,  sp,  ps,  etc...  - no more weird input for the ride

Yeah, why did they do this?!?!?  Even worse, the 2 mono inputs on the DM10!  I don't understand why they aren't all the same; seems like it would be easier for us AND them!

Some things I would like to see in a TI/O2:
-Multiple note numbers per trigger.... "stacking" (even just 2 would be cool!)
-Support of choking on every trigger input
-Velocity sensitive switch rims on every trigger (dreaming, I know)
-Midi In/Out-Thru, for chaining multiple units
-Better display with patch naming
-A couple CC pedal inputs for HH, volume control, VST parameters, etc.

Thanks for listening, Alesis!  *hint hint*

Jer

[Hellfire]

I just thought I would bump this thread because I'm getting more and more reports of the Trigger I/O (and USB kit) getting harder and harder to find. Some online music stores are even starting to list the Trigger I/O or USB kits as discontinued! Maybe Alesis is working on a Trigger I/O 2.0. Any other suggestions of features for the rumored Trigger I/O 2.0?

[chroma]

Keep in mind that every button or input would probably add at least $5-10 - each - to the cost of the trigger IO. Its best feature is that it's pretty cheap, so let's not let that get away from us.

I'd be happy if PS worked the way Rolands or Yamahas do, since every single cymbal out there (except maybe the pintech zenbal?) do P/S, and you don't get velocity on the second zone that way with the alesis. Seems like it would be straightforward to do, assuming the processor in the trigger i/o can handle it (it does require some extra processing). I am considering getting another trigger box just to be able to do this. If Alesis could implement 3 way P/S/S triggering off a single stereo pair, Yamaha style, that would rock even more. (It tells the difference between the switches by putting different resistances in line and measuring the voltage... they'll have different response). But not sure how you would calibrate that with the current interface.

As far as positional sensing... I think if the built-in crosstalk was eliminated, so you could trigger both a snare center and rim hit together, then you could do the positional sensing in software (edrummonitor/etrigger or something). If Roland really has a patent, they probably couldn't do it internally without paying money to Roland (and not keeping it cheap), but just the above would be enough to make it possible.

BTW - if you want something today that will let you have additional foot switches etc, look at something like the behringer fcb1010 - two midi assignable footpedals + a bunch of footswitches, you connect your trigger IO to its input, and use its midi thru function which merges the triggers and the controllers. It costs as much as a trigger IO though

the software sysex editor - have thought about working on this, but don't seem to be able to find a sysex spec anywhere. Will have to reverse-engineer it; it's not difficult, but it takes time, and not sure I have it right now. Anyways, since Alesis has put out sysex specs for the DM5 etc, I'm curious if there are any hidden easter eggs available via sysex....

[Hellfire]

Keep in mind that every button or input would probably add at least $5-10 - each - to the cost of the trigger IO. Its best feature is that it's pretty cheap, so let's not let that get away from us.

I'd be happy if PS worked the way Rolands or Yamahas do, since every single cymbal out there (except maybe the pintech zenbal?) do P/S, and you don't get velocity on the second zone that way with the alesis. Seems like it would be straightforward to do, assuming the processor in the trigger i/o can handle it (it does require some extra processing). I am considering getting another trigger box just to be able to do this. If Alesis could implement 3 way P/S/S triggering off a single stereo pair, Yamaha style, that would rock even more. (It tells the difference between the switches by putting different resistances in line and measuring the voltage... they'll have different response). But not sure how you would calibrate that with the current interface.

As far as positional sensing... I think if the built-in crosstalk was eliminated, so you could trigger both a snare center and rim hit together, then you could do the positional sensing in software (edrummonitor/etrigger or something). If Roland really has a patent, they probably couldn't do it internally without paying money to Roland (and not keeping it cheap), but just the above would be enough to make it possible.

BTW - if you want something today that will let you have additional foot switches etc, look at something like the behringer fcb1010 - two midi assignable footpedals + a bunch of footswitches, you connect your trigger IO to its input, and use its midi thru function which merges the triggers and the controllers. It costs as much as a trigger IO though

the software sysex editor - have thought about working on this, but don't seem to be able to find a sysex spec anywhere. Will have to reverse-engineer it; it's not difficult, but it takes time, and not sure I have it right now. Anyways, since Alesis has put out sysex specs for the DM5 etc, I'm curious if there are any hidden easter eggs available via sysex....

Roland style positional sensing is patented by Roland, so I don't see that happening. Also, I really doubt the Yamaha way of triggering cymbals (meaning 3-way one TRS) would be supported. I believe that is a proprietary method Yamaha uses (guessing base on the fact they are the only ones using it).

As for the sysex specs for the Trigger I/O. Scott@Alesis stated back in April that he might be able to post them but I don't think he ever did. I sent him a PM, so hopefully he can still post them. Here is the topic where it was discussed:

http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=276.msg2312#msg2312

[chroma]

As for the sysex specs for the Trigger I/O. Scott@Alesis stated back in April that he might be able to post them but I don't think he ever did. I sent him a PM, so hopefully he can still post them. Here is the topic where it was discussed:

http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=276.msg2312#msg2312

i guess he never got around to it No problem, the sysex spec actually appears fairly straightforward - there isn't a lot in the trigger I/O, but I think I've figured most of it out from a quick look at the hex. Still have to map numbers to things like Lin and PP but that shouldn't take too long.

Probably be a little while before I do anything with it, but i'll try to post up an (abbreviated) spec once i get the last bits figured out.

[ProDigit]

Though I never really used it, I would want to see a lower spec version of it, for a lower price.
A 5 piece kit, with dualzone snare and ride, and ability to choke on the cymbals.

I also wonder why not equip it with an SD cardslot reader for loading and playing back your own samples. The alesis samples are good enough, and current modules (brains) are different just that they have samples loaded on them, and an audio out.

For me, I don't really need dualzone compatibility for the toms and crash.
Just snare and ride, and perhaps the ability to add one extra input (for a splash, that'd be a 6piece kit, with 2 dualzone inputs) would be more than enough!

[chroma]

one more thing I would like to see with the trigger IO - the velocity curve should be able to be stored with the preset. SSD, session drums, and oceanway all respond differently, but I have to set the curve globally and change it manually when I go from one to the other. Probably do this with sysex eventually but haven't gotten it set up yet, but would be easier built in to the unit.

[ProDigit]

It would be nice if the head had the ability to steer 2 samples at the same time over midi. One the general sample, another the same part of the instrument, but when hit really hard.
This is what Roland and Alesis use in their more expensive heads, and call dynamic sampling.
Just a dual layer that will allow a volume slide of sample 1 over sample 2 (the harder you hit, the more sample 2 sounds, and the lower the volume of sample 1); although that is not really a necessity with the correct drum software.
The correct drum software or sampler should be able to get that same sound out of a single midi volume command of this pad.

[audiopat]

SD 2.2 has the ability to make velocity layered samples in the midi node section. is that what you mean?

[rockdude]

I wanted to start a topic about a possible Alesis Trigger I/O ver. 2.0. It isn't a real product but I figured we have a Alesis DM20...What would you like to see? topic so, why not one for a new Trigger I/O. I know what you are thinking, "Just update the current Trigger I/O". I really think the reason we haven't seen much in the way of updates for the Trigger I/O is because of the lack of user interface. An example of what I'm talking about can be read in this post:

http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=39.msg3468#msg3468

Oh my old thread is up for grabs again
I would second everything I wrote there about the Trigger I/O's flaws. I still believe it could be done upgrading the old unit, but money wise they'll probably earn more by making a v2.0. So that's what they'll do.

It would be interesting to hear some of the underlying thoughts behind Alesis decisions when building the Trigger IO and DM10. There must be a reason to make an input mono or locked to piezo switch etc. Speak up Alesis Tell us why the Trigger IO and DM10 are built like they are.
Now people will jump in and say it's built like that for keeping the costs down and value up. I don't think that's the whole truth.

[Hellfire]

I wanted to start a topic about a possible Alesis Trigger I/O ver. 2.0. It isn't a real product but I figured we have a Alesis DM20...What would you like to see? topic so, why not one for a new Trigger I/O. I know what you are thinking, "Just update the current Trigger I/O". I really think the reason we haven't seen much in the way of updates for the Trigger I/O is because of the lack of user interface. An example of what I'm talking about can be read in this post:

http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=39.msg3468#msg3468

Oh my old thread is up for grabs again
I would second everything I wrote there about the Trigger I/O's flaws. I still believe it could be done upgrading the old unit, but money wise they'll probably earn more by making a v2.0. So that's what they'll do.

It would be interesting to hear some of the underlying thoughts behind Alesis decisions when building the Trigger IO and DM10. There must be a reason to make an input mono or locked to piezo switch etc. Speak up Alesis Tell us why the Trigger IO and DM10 are built like they are.
Now people will jump in and say it's built like that for keeping the costs down and value up. I don't think that's the whole truth.

It's the same reason that Roland sells a TD-20 with many of the options turned off to users. They call it the TD-12. For those that don't know, The TD-12 and TD-20 are practically the same module. The TD-12 lacks the expansion slot and has a limited OS, but is basically the same as the TD-20. It is a way to make more product modules. This tactic isn't new. Auto companies have done it for years and so have TV manufactures. I can tell you that the DM10 doesn't have the circuitry for a dual zone hi-hat. The traces are not on the pcb (and the jack is truly mono). I also know that the second hi-hat zone sounds are in the DM10 (they can be accessed via midi). So my guess is that was truly a cost cutting measure.

[rockdude]

Oh my old thread is up for grabs again
I would second everything I wrote there about the Trigger I/O's flaws. I still believe it could be done upgrading the old unit, but money wise they'll probably earn more by making a v2.0. So that's what they'll do.

It would be interesting to hear some of the underlying thoughts behind Alesis decisions when building the Trigger IO and DM10. There must be a reason to make an input mono or locked to piezo switch etc. Speak up Alesis Tell us why the Trigger IO and DM10 are built like they are.
Now people will jump in and say it's built like that for keeping the costs down and value up. I don't think that's the whole truth.

It's the same reason that Roland sells a TD-20 with many of the options turned off to users. They call it the TD-12. For those that don't know, The TD-12 and TD-20 are practically the same module. The TD-12 lacks the expansion slot and has a limited OS, but is basically the same as the TD-20. It is a way to make more product modules. This tactic isn't new. Auto companies have done it for years and so have TV manufactures. I can tell you that the DM10 doesn't have the circuitry for a dual zone hi-hat. The traces are not on the pcb (and the jack is truly mono). I also know that the second hi-hat zone sounds are in the DM10 (they can be accessed via midi). So my guess is that was truly a cost cutting measure.

Yes you have a point there of course, but it's hard to realize that it's so cost cutting that it comes down to a hihat being mono instead of stereo and similar stuff. I could understand cutting down on inputs to decrease costs, but having an input mono instead of stereo (and especially the hihat) makes no sense to me.

It would be very interesting to hear Alesis version of why the build is like it is.

I don't know much about Roland modules so thanks for the info 
My MegaDrum seems to have a lot of it's features though.

Anyhow, taking the good from the DM10 and fixing the flaws from the Trigger IO and putting all this into v2.0 do sound like a good way to come up with a winner. And I would rather see them cutting down on inputs than functionality. Easier said than done of course.