Author Topic: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-  (Read 43167 times)

Offline Hellfire

Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« on: January 22, 2014, 04:13:37 PM »
For those that don't know Alesis has announced the Alesis Sample Rack.

They really haven't stated much about it yet, but after some thought I realized there are two key features that must be in this product for it to truly be useful. Yes, I know there are a ton more features that it should have but these two are a must or the device is a non-starter. I posted this over at the Alesis Community Support forum so you can see and "Like" the idea (if you truly like it). Link:
Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-

And as always, please post here at DMdrummer.com your thoughts on this idea as well.

Here's the text of my post:

Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-

Just saw the new Alesis Sample Rack. I don't know how far you guys are with development, but I'd like to request two feature that I believe the Sample Rack must have in order to be truly flexible to the vast majority of gigging edrummers.

1) Layered sound support. The ability to have multiple samples assigned to a given trigger based on velocity (Called Dynamic Articulation by Alesis). Without this feature the Sample Rack will "machine gun" way too much and sound fake. Dynamic Articulation is already in the DM8 and DM10. A device like the Alesis Sample Rack should include the same/similar feature.

2) A powered USB "A" port for use with the Alesis Trigger I/O. Yes, I know you could just use the regular midi ports, but by plugging the Alesis Trigger I/O into the Sample Rack via USB would eliminate the need for a power cable for the Trigger I/O. This also would allow users to place the Alesis Sample Rack in an effects rack away from the drum set and only needing to run one cable (the USB cable) to the drum set for midi transmission and powering of the Trigger I/O.

As much as I would love for you guys to include the higher level sound editing controls of the DM8/10 and access to more than just 8 triggers via midi, I think the two requests above would be enough for the Alesis Sample Rack to really start a new standard in electronic drumming.

Thanks for your time and consideration,

HF
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:29:15 PM by Hellfire »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 09:12:26 PM »
I guess it would appear that not many are really interested in the new Alesis Sample Rack or many don't know about it yet. It's a shame too because it has such great potential. Of course that is what's said about the DM10 as well. Maybe that's a bad thing. :o

Offline Th3R00st3r

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 10:56:52 PM »
So its essay essentially a drum module that you can store and access sounds from an sd card? A replacement to the DM? You are right that there is not too much info. Is this considered prototype, or is it realized?
th3r00st3r-Alesis DM10 Studio w/mesh head conversion (billy blast 2ply) and snare stand.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 11:35:25 PM »
So its essay essentially a drum module that you can store and access sounds from an sd card?

Yes.

A replacement to the DM?

If done correctly, yes. That's a big IF and two things that must be done I've listed in the first post.

You are right that there is not too much info. Is this considered prototype, or is it realized?

Not 100% sure. I can tell you that the image Alesis released is not of an actual physical product, but a computer render. If you zoom up on the image it become obvious its just a graphical representation. With that in mind I was thinking its not 100% set in stone. That is why I started the idea campaign over at the Alesis forum site.

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 01:08:16 AM »
If this thing is built on the same platform as the JUNKBOX akai MPX8, which I owned and ditched after one week, its only hope is the 15 internal drumsets are balls to the wall awesome like a great-sounding TR808 set, TR909 set, Simmons SDSV set, rock set, etc, AND YOU WON'T EVEN THINK OF LOADING SAMPLES INTO IT!! Loading "drumsets" of samples on the MPX8 is a painful process in which, if you have, for example, Set 8 loaded, and need to scroll back to Set 6, your knob gets stuck while it loads the first sample of Set 7. Hopefully you develop the skill to quickly rotate the knob to ask it to load Set 6 at the same time it starts to load the second sample of Set 7. If you are lucky, it WILL begin to load Set 6.  If so, you then have to wait half a minute for it to load all the samples of Set 6 while your guitar player glares at you and your singer tells the audience your band's Twitter 'handle' for the fifth time while also glaring at you. If not, try to get it to SLOWLY load Set 6 before it SLOWLY loads the third sample of Set 7.   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 01:11:34 AM by TheDanimal »

Offline Sharkuel

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 04:12:18 AM »
Well, let us see that Hellfire. Actually this is a nice surprise, but the lack of more trigger inputs and the lack of "Dynamic Articulation" is a bit of a downer. I am more pumped up for the X-Hat. FINALLY alesis deliver a Hi-Hat that phisically opens and closes. ::) Now, i expect that they don't pull out an Alesis on us and deliver a switch hi hat instead of a continuous one.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 06:00:08 AM by Sharkuel »
Megadrum 32 inputs with positional sensing add-on.

Cone centered DIY triggers in snare and toms.

8" racktom
10" racktom
12" racktom
14" floortom

Roland VH13
Lemon Cymbals

"Life is short, death is near, but one's word lives forever

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 08:13:54 AM »
If this thing is built on the same platform as the JUNKBOX akai MPX8, which I owned and ditched after one week, its only hope is the 15 internal drumsets are balls to the wall awesome like a great-sounding TR808 set, TR909 set, Simmons SDSV set, rock set, etc, AND YOU WON'T EVEN THINK OF LOADING SAMPLES INTO IT!! Loading "drumsets" of samples on the MPX8 is a painful process in which, if you have, for example, Set 8 loaded, and need to scroll back to Set 6, your knob gets stuck while it loads the first sample of Set 7. Hopefully you develop the skill to quickly rotate the knob to ask it to load Set 6 at the same time it starts to load the second sample of Set 7. If you are lucky, it WILL begin to load Set 6.  If so, you then have to wait half a minute for it to load all the samples of Set 6 while your guitar player glares at you and your singer tells the audience your band's Twitter 'handle' for the fifth time while also glaring at you. If not, try to get it to SLOWLY load Set 6 before it SLOWLY loads the third sample of Set 7.

The truth is we don't know 100% if it is just a MPX8 in a rack mount. If it is just that, I agree its dead in the water. I'm trying to make it more than that and now is the time to pressure Alesis to make it right. If we wait until after the product is released, its too late. 

BTW, if TR808, TR909 sounds are all you are looking for, then you will not need Dynamic Articulation. DA is mainly for reproaching acoustic drum samples. Which is what the majority of users are going to want.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 08:22:42 AM »
Well, let us see that Hellfire. Actually this is a nice surprise, but the lack of more trigger inputs and the lack of "Dynamic Articulation" is a bit of a downer. I am more pumped up for the X-Hat. FINALLY alesis deliver a Hi-Hat that phisically opens and closes. ::) Now, i expect that they don't pull out an Alesis on us and deliver a switch hi hat instead of a continuous one.

Again, I'm trying to make a difference before the product is released. I asked for the Trigger I/O support and the Dynamic Articulation because I don't know if it can do that and that would more than make up for its possible short falls. Now is the time to tell Alesis what we want in a product like this. Wanting until its release just guaranties Alesis will do nothing to make it better.

As for the Hi-Hat. Just an FYI, the only reason Alesis finally came out with the X-Hat is because of pressure from Pearl. Pearl claims "Real Feel", but didn't have a real feel hi-hat. Chances are this hi-hat will be available for Pearl long before Alesis makes it available to us and I bet a firmware update is going to be necessary for it to function correctly. There for, buying a Pearl version isn't going to work well for the DM10/8.

Offline Sharkuel

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 10:29:17 AM »
Well Hellfire, i am not jugding you, or making statements out of what you said previously, i am just making guesses as you are, based on the information provided. I am fully aware that this isn't out for sale. It is a downer if it fails to deliver that aspect, that's for sure.

Regarding the hi-hat, i figured much. But they will take ages to update the module since that is how they role lately, if they ever make one. ::)
Megadrum 32 inputs with positional sensing add-on.

Cone centered DIY triggers in snare and toms.

8" racktom
10" racktom
12" racktom
14" floortom

Roland VH13
Lemon Cymbals

"Life is short, death is near, but one's word lives forever

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 11:42:41 AM »
Well Hellfire, i am not jugding you, or making statements out of what you said previously, i am just making guesses as you are, based on the information provided. I am fully aware that this isn't out for sale. It is a downer if it fails to deliver that aspect, that's for sure.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off sounding as if I was being judged. I learned a lot going through the DM10 OS 2 debacle. I realized that trying to get something changed after the fact will not work with Alesis. They like to make a device and just churn them out. With that experience behind me I thought I would try a different way. That way is the put the ideas on the table before a device is finalized. Unfortunately, this isn't working because nobody knows about the potential a device like this could have. Mainly because they have never seen a device like this before. They only know what they have seen, and not what can be. 

The quest of a drum module that can have user samples, has been the dream of many edrummers since the late 1980's. Alesis flirted with this idea back in 1998 with the Alesis DMPro module. That module could load up to seven samples to an instrument and those seven sample could be assigned by velocity. Unfortunately, technology wasn't there at the time to make it a simple process. Fast forward 16 years, the tech can easily do this now and cheaply. The question is, why doesn't an edrum manufacture do it? Along comes the Alesis Sample Rack and a realization that Alesis is only one set away from making a game changing module. I just think they need to be pushed to make that step. And judging from the lack of comments on the Alesis support forum for this subject, it isn't looking as if its going to happen.
 
Regarding the hi-hat, i figured much. But they will take ages to update the module since that is how they role lately, if they ever make one. ::)

I hear you. Maybe Alesis needs to be encouraged to release this Hi-hat in a more timely manner? Sounds like a great idea to post about over at the Alesis support forum.

Offline vaikl

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 03:11:14 PM »

The truth is we don't know 100% if it is just a MPX8 in a rack mount. If it is just that, I agree its dead in the water.

If I compare the SampleRack display data with the display of the MPX8 (http://www.justmusic.de/mall/1/pic/9119427_mpx8_ortho_web_2_lg.png), then the SR has added a mono/stereo switch, a simple sensivity setting (2-digital, up to 99, maybe), a velocity curve setting and a mute group assignment on/off switch.

That doesn't make it a complete other product, because SDcard reading speed would also be much too slow as on the MPX8 - as TheDanimal wrote - and that would be the only difference against other very simple, very cheap sample playas.

Offline AlanK

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 09:21:14 PM »
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 09:27:45 PM by Hellfire »
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2014, 09:29:22 PM »


Hope you don't mind AlanK, but I edited your post a little so the pic would be viewable. Thanks for sharing this pic. Are you at NAMM?

From the picture it looks like a mock-up and not a function product.

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2014, 11:16:57 PM »
so is this sample rack almost like a 2box drum module?
i am so stoaked about the new x hat. I always thought the hi hat was the weakest link with the dm10

Offline Sharkuel

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 03:57:17 AM »
@antod

More or less. We don't know much about this, but maybe it is. Or it is just a sample trigger, much like the AKAI samplers.

But if it is like the 2Box, then Alesis has hit the motherf**king jackpot here. It only needs the "Dinamic Articulation" and the edit tools on the DM10 to make it grand and to basically force both Roland and Yamaha to review their drum products, since this is a notable game changer.

That is, if it is really a full fleshed drum module, and not just some fancy idea like the DMDock ::)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 04:24:46 AM by Sharkuel »
Megadrum 32 inputs with positional sensing add-on.

Cone centered DIY triggers in snare and toms.

8" racktom
10" racktom
12" racktom
14" floortom

Roland VH13
Lemon Cymbals

"Life is short, death is near, but one's word lives forever

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 07:12:19 AM »
That is, if it is really a full fleshed drum module, and not just some fancy idea like the DMDock ::)

Speaking of the DMDock, did anyone else notice the DMDock is sitting next to the Sample Rack on the left? Notice it not up and running just like the Sample Rack. ???

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2014, 07:13:17 AM »
More outputs!!! At least 2 more even if they are set up like the D4/DM5....

Enough for live use....

I have this same complaint on the Yamaha DTX-M12....

Offline Sharkuel

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2014, 09:13:39 AM »
That is, if it is really a full fleshed drum module, and not just some fancy idea like the DMDock ::)

Speaking of the DMDock, did anyone else notice the DMDock is sitting next to the Sample Rack on the left? Notice it not up and running just like the Sample Rack. ???

Yes Hellfire, i indeed noticed. It is just there, lying arround. ::) I wonder if we will see that working like it is promissed by Alesis.
Megadrum 32 inputs with positional sensing add-on.

Cone centered DIY triggers in snare and toms.

8" racktom
10" racktom
12" racktom
14" floortom

Roland VH13
Lemon Cymbals

"Life is short, death is near, but one's word lives forever

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 10:44:09 AM »
This looks cool - but I'm thinking it would only fly if loaded with awesome sounds, or if awesome sounds are available (what was promised w/ the DM10 ;) ). I can't see a whole lot of e-drummers getting into the hassle of recording samples with multiple velocity layers for every drum and cymbal, and getting anywhere near the results of the many VST drum samples already out there from professional studios. If the sounds aren't "VST-like", it's kind of pointless.
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 11:53:24 AM »
This looks cool - but I'm thinking it would only fly if loaded with awesome sounds, or if awesome sounds are available (what was promised w/ the DM10 ;) ). I can't see a whole lot of e-drummers getting into the hassle of recording samples with multiple velocity layers for every drum and cymbal, and getting anywhere near the results of the many VST drum samples already out there from professional studios. If the sounds aren't "VST-like", it's kind of pointless.

Those same VSTs can be used to make the awesome sounds that you would put in the Sample Rack. Yes, it would take some work to pull the sounds, but it wouldn't be nearly as hard as recording your own samples. Heck, you can download multilayered sounds for free from the web. Just do a google search. Soundfonts could be used as well. I see no reason why someone would need to record their own samples. You can if you want, but there are many ways around this. Just an FYI, this is what some 2box module users do.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 11:59:57 AM »
This might be good news. I just saw a NAMM video of the SamplePad Pro and on the back of the unit is a switch assigned to the hi-hat input (switch or variable). Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlbTtpNWxzM

Offline JimmyB

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 01:58:10 PM »
Would have been nice to hear some sound come out of it. Another ghost product?

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 02:34:23 PM »
This looks cool - but I'm thinking it would only fly if loaded with awesome sounds, or if awesome sounds are available (what was promised w/ the DM10 ;) ). I can't see a whole lot of e-drummers getting into the hassle of recording samples with multiple velocity layers for every drum and cymbal, and getting anywhere near the results of the many VST drum samples already out there from professional studios. If the sounds aren't "VST-like", it's kind of pointless.

Those same VSTs can be used to make the awesome sounds that you would put in the Sample Rack. Yes, it would take some work to pull the sounds, but it wouldn't be nearly as hard as recording your own samples. Heck, you can download multilayered sounds for free from the web. Just do a google search. Soundfonts could be used as well. I see no reason why someone would need to record their own samples. You can if you want, but there are many ways around this. Just an FYI, this is what some 2box module users do.

This is true - I'm just saying they need to make it really simple to get great sounds if they want the product to be successful. If I've already got a decent computer and know how to download and assign samples and use VST's, what do I need another box for? As I mentioned in the new KAT/ADAM&EVE thread, the Peavey MuseBox has been out for 2 years and I haven't even heard of anyone bothering to use it for edrums. The "hook" may be that it kind of does what the MuseBox is supposed to do, and will only cost $199 instead of $999.

I'm really just trying to understand why I might want this, and if the answer is to pay a couple hundred more bucks to get what the DM10 promised, I'd at least be open to checking it out. ;)
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones

Offline vaikl

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2014, 02:45:54 PM »
Is it just me that is reminded of the Alesis D4? No advanced editing just as the SampleRack/PadPro, 500 instead of 200 single instrument sounds, 20 instead of lame 10 kits, more I/O, more buttons to tweak - do we have 1994 again, but worse??

Re: Alesis Sample Rack --Two needed features-
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 02:54:32 PM »
Is it just me that is reminded of the Alesis D4? No advanced editing just as the SampleRack/PadPro, 500 instead of 200 single instrument sounds, 20 instead of lame 10 kits, more I/O, more buttons to tweak - do we have 1994 again, but worse??

I'm wondering that too...

I did get curious about my own post, and found a thread about the Peavey MuseBox over at vdrums.com:

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/general/products/51519-peavey-muse-musebox-compact-receptor

Seems they never really implemented using it for drum VST's, so that explains why drummers didn't buy it. If this SampleRack actually does load multi-layered drum samples that work, and it's not very expensive, it would be something (kind of) new.
E-drum setup: Alesis DM10 Module, S&S Industries Stinger XL snare & Stinger P1 toms, Alesis DMPad cymbals, Roland PD-8 & KD-7, Gibraltar rack/hardware, Tama hardware, Hart Maxxum/Magnum Mesh Heads, Roland KC-350 amp, Audio Technica ATH-M50s headphones