Crimson 2 snare drum centre piezo trigger issues.

[307e]

Crimson 2 mesh head snare.
Even though I have had the drum kit since 2019, I only unboxed it from new in April 2024. (Kids, Uni, running a business and family life trumps finishing cool music room). So it is in effect only 6 months old - I play it at most three hours a week and don't beat the hell out of it. I have had to repair the snare centre piezo wires twice already and the plastic 'plate' it sits on is cracked at the thinned sections. Had to strip it again tonight as the wire has come off the piezo with the solder joint. Very disappointing. I purchased some replacement piezos a few weeks back as I feared the second repair wouldn't last as the wiring is so thin. Fitted a new piezo (same size) and it works.... sort of. Individual hits produce a good sound; pretty much normal. But a drum roll - the sound 'stutters' and is patchy. Played about with snare settings and I'm pretty sure it's the new piezo trigger not working right.... just can't see why.
What have I done wrong.... or is there a Alesis special piezo for the snare? I've done some reading and it seems other Alesis kits suffer breakages with the plastic plate under the piezos.... is this a known problem with the Crimson 2?
Any help would be really appreciated..... 

[Chaser]

Crimson 2 mesh head snare.
Even though I have had the drum kit since 2019, I only unboxed it from new in April 2024. (Kids, Uni, running a business and family life trumps finishing cool music room). So it is in effect only 6 months old - I play it at most three hours a week and don't beat the hell out of it. I have had to repair the snare centre piezo wires twice already and the plastic 'plate' it sits on is cracked at the thinned sections. Had to strip it again tonight as the wire has come off the piezo with the solder joint. Very disappointing. I purchased some replacement piezos a few weeks back as I feared the second repair wouldn't last as the wiring is so thin. Fitted a new piezo (same size) and it works.... sort of. Individual hits produce a good sound; pretty much normal. But a drum roll - the sound 'stutters' and is patchy. Played about with snare settings and I'm pretty sure it's the new piezo trigger not working right.... just can't see why.
What have I done wrong.... or is there a Alesis special piezo for the snare? I've done some reading and it seems other Alesis kits suffer breakages with the plastic plate under the piezos.... is this a known problem with the Crimson 2?
Any help would be really appreciated.....

The Piezo picks up vibrations off the Trigger plate/4 Columns.
As you are doing a drum roll the Piezo flexes continuously ..and so does the Plastic Trigger Plate..that is what cracks it eventually.
A cracked plate doesn't give a continuous vibration ..so there may be an interruption in the waveform (probably less than a millisecond) going to the Piezo..then interpreted by the module...eventually that plate is going to shatter.
The Piezo you replaced...was it mounted directly to the plate (glued)..glued to a small clear acrylic plate which was then mounted to the trigger plate using a foam ring on it (decoupler)..or mounted with foam disc (decoupler only)....was the Ceramic facing up or down.
The Original Crimson II had the older design (Red Shells/Black Mesh Heads) and there should also be a "Sensitivity Knob" which decides if you are using the outer pickup or inner pickup.

With it turned full to the outer pickup does it still have interruptions in the sound?..or just the inner(center) Piezo.
There is also the issue of having the kit set for so long with the Heads tight and decompressing the foam columns.There have been Users in the past that purchased New Kits that had been setting 2 years or longer and Alesis Replaced because of the Foam decompression I mentioned.
Here is a Topic showing trigger plate issues with the DM10 MKII Pro and the Original STRIKE Kits...basically the same setup..4 columns..trigger plate , just a different design.Alesis has changed the design multiple times over the past few years..depending on the Model.I provided a link in the topic for better wire..24 gauge.. Silicone.. 40 Strand.
I use Military Grade for all my repairs..typically the Piezo are anywhere from 22-24 gauge but very stiff  and only 7 stands

The Crimson II,DM10 MKII Pro and Original STRIKE Kits All came out around this time and the DM10 MKII Pro and Original STRIKE Kits reputations for reliability was destroyed because of this....search youtube etc etc..you'll find plenty of Videos.

Here is one for Repairing the Command  X Snare (DD650 Re-Brand same as Crimson)..which has the Red Shells/Black mesh Heads and the Metal Triangle Trigger Plate.

There are Repair Kits on Reverb..Not exactly cheap considering what they are ($30) but you get everything..
There are (2) sizes.I have no experience with them so I can't comment on how well the pad will perform after installing as you have to cut the columns out of one piece , so that will vary user to user.

EDIT:
Added Links

[307e]

Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply, Chaser.

The annoying bit is when I repaired the snare before, it worked absolutely fine. The first time it failed (only four months of usage from unboxing) the centre piezo wires had snapped so I repaired them and was amazed to see the clear plastic plate had already broken at the thinned sections between the inner and outer areas. The foam underneath had splits in it too. I glued "bridges" of clear plastic of the same thickness across the splits but this only lasted a short time - discovered when I had to strip the drum again because the centre piezo wires had broken again in a different place. This time (reason for the post) the wire came off the centre piezo with the solder joint - so I bought several new piezos (27mm) and copied what was there. The piezo was originally fitted (ceramic side up) with a strong double sided foam disc shaped 25mm diameter fixer to the clear plastic plate right in the centre of the drum head. I didn't have a fixer of that type so I glued the piezo to the plastic with a rubbery 'Bostik" type glue - not superglue which is rigid. The piezo is sat on the glue about 2mm off the plate, same height as original. Reassembled it and the very centre of the head works fine. The rim works fine, the outer piezo (on the outer part of the plastic plate) works when you hit the area where it is.... but large parts of the drum head above the outer plate section are pretty much dead. It's only gone pear shaped since I changed the centre piezo. I am thinking maybe the outer piezo is faulty, although when you tap it gently with your finger, it works fine. This drum has the sensitivity knob - tried all positions and played around with the module settings, no difference. I am an electrician but this is trying me...... I don't want to go changing the other piezos yet as I feel that will move the goalposts irrevocably.

So.... opinions please. Do I - keep trying to fix this drum; buy a secondhand Alesis Crimson II 12" snare for about ?100 or cut my losses and upgrade to a Roland snare - say a PD120 or PD125X if they will work with the Crimson module (assuming they are better quality!). I am losing faith in the Alesis snare and the second hand one could be AS bad or worse..... help please!!

[Chaser]

Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply, Chaser.

The annoying bit is when I repaired the snare before, it worked absolutely fine. The first time it failed (only four months of usage from unboxing) the centre piezo wires had snapped so I repaired them and was amazed to see the clear plastic plate had already broken at the thinned sections between the inner and outer areas. The foam underneath had splits in it too. I glued "bridges" of clear plastic of the same thickness across the splits but this only lasted a short time - discovered when I had to strip the drum again because the centre piezo wires had broken again in a different place. This time (reason for the post) the wire came off the centre piezo with the solder joint - so I bought several new piezos (27mm) and copied what was there. The piezo was originally fitted (ceramic side up) with a strong double sided foam disc shaped 25mm diameter fixer to the clear plastic plate right in the centre of the drum head. I didn't have a fixer of that type so I glued the piezo to the plastic with a rubbery 'Bostik" type glue - not superglue which is rigid. The piezo is sat on the glue about 2mm off the plate, same height as original. Reassembled it and the very centre of the head works fine. The rim works fine, the outer piezo (on the outer part of the plastic plate) works when you hit the area where it is.... but large parts of the drum head above the outer plate section are pretty much dead. It's only gone pear shaped since I changed the centre piezo. I am thinking maybe the outer piezo is faulty, although when you tap it gently with your finger, it works fine. This drum has the sensitivity knob - tried all positions and played around with the module settings, no difference. I am an electrician but this is trying me...... I don't want to go changing the other piezos yet as I feel that will move the goalposts irrevocably.

So.... opinions please. Do I - keep trying to fix this drum; buy a secondhand Alesis Crimson II 12" snare for about ?100 or cut my losses and upgrade to a Roland snare - say a PD120 or PD125X if they will work with the Crimson module (assuming they are better quality!). I am losing faith in the Alesis snare and the second hand one could be AS bad or worse..... help please!!

During this time period (2014-2016) there were a number of Mesh Trigger Designs following the DM10 Mesh Kits and it seemed a different design depending on the Kit Model..then all the Medeli Re-Brands started being released even the DD650 Re-Brands which use the same Module had different Trigger designs.This was also the time period before Rolands Patent had Expired,so speculation was it was Alesis way around it..altho later they did lose the Lawsuit brought by Roland.
ALL Kits from this generation of Trigger Designs have been discontinued..so far I haven't heard/seen reports of the New trigger designs (Nitro Series..Strata Series) failing.The last known Trigger design to work was the STRIKE Pro SE..Metal Plate with Stepped Foam.

The original Crimson also used the Clear trigger Plate..the Rim Piezo is isolated inside a hollow Foam Column..surrounded by larger foam ring and a foam dust cover.The Trigger Plate is glued to the Hollow column supporting the Trigger Plate and holding it in place.This design was used by many models including the STRIKE...while some of the earlier used the plastic support or bridges from the outer plate to hold the Trigger Plate (like you mentioned) in place.

There isn't going to be an exact replacement for repairing these triggers and about all you can do is come as close as possible without destroying the Hollow Foam Column (Try Pipe Insulation) and the smaller foam columns and adjust the settings.
Gluing the Piezo to the plate made it one unit..so that may have contributed to the issue..it doesn't take much to throw everything off, even as simple as Foam density or making a trigger too rigid...using a decoupler (Foam w/Double sided tape the size of the ceramic) is typically the way to go and what is used for most of the repairs and DIY Triggers designs.
The Crimson II SE Kits (Guitar Center Release and Overseas) DO NOT Have sensitivity Knobs...different Trigger Design so be aware of that if shopping for another snare...otherwise Trial and error with other Brands/manufactures or DIY..even Roland has separate settings for different Trigger/Models even if the same configuration....Piezo/Piezo.

[307e]

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to try your suggestion of decoupling the centre piezo - as you pointed out that's the only thing that differed from the original design.

Would any other 12" snare drum work well with the Crimson II? Maybe the later Alesis kits eg:- Strike models to get round this issue of continual breakage? I mentioned the Roland ones in the hope that I could get a better quality unit that would plug and play. I have sent a service request to Alesis in the vain hope they may be able to help me; just have to wait and see.
Really appreciate you taking the time to help me!
Thanks again!

[Chaser]

Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply, Chaser.

The annoying bit is when I repaired the snare before, it worked absolutely fine. The first time it failed (only four months of usage from unboxing) the centre piezo wires had snapped so I repaired them and was amazed to see the clear plastic plate had already broken at the thinned sections between the inner and outer areas. The foam underneath had splits in it too. I glued "bridges" of clear plastic of the same thickness across the splits but this only lasted a short time - discovered when I had to strip the drum again because the centre piezo wires had broken again in a different place. This time (reason for the post) the wire came off the centre piezo with the solder joint - so I bought several new piezos (27mm) and copied what was there. The piezo was originally fitted (ceramic side up) with a strong double sided foam disc shaped 25mm diameter fixer to the clear plastic plate right in the centre of the drum head. I didn't have a fixer of that type so I glued the piezo to the plastic with a rubbery 'Bostik" type glue - not superglue which is rigid. The piezo is sat on the glue about 2mm off the plate, same height as original. Reassembled it and the very centre of the head works fine. The rim works fine, the outer piezo (on the outer part of the plastic plate) works when you hit the area where it is.... but large parts of the drum head above the outer plate section are pretty much dead. It's only gone pear shaped since I changed the centre piezo. I am thinking maybe the outer piezo is faulty, although when you tap it gently with your finger, it works fine. This drum has the sensitivity knob - tried all positions and played around with the module settings, no difference. I am an electrician but this is trying me...... I don't want to go changing the other piezos yet as I feel that will move the goalposts irrevocably.

So.... opinions please. Do I - keep trying to fix this drum; buy a secondhand Alesis Crimson II 12" snare for about ?100 or cut my losses and upgrade to a Roland snare - say a PD120 or PD125X if they will work with the Crimson module (assuming they are better quality!). I am losing faith in the Alesis snare and the second hand one could be AS bad or worse..... help please!!

The other thing to check is if the Foam Columns are actually making contact with the Head.

I have repaired many where All of the Foam is Disintegrating.

I am seeing more and more as these Triggers age..and it ain't pretty.

Here is a Snare from the original Command Kit (Rubber Toms..Mesh Snare ..DMPad Cymbals) which was out same time as DM10 Mesh Kits.
The Center Columns were split fallen over..the Center Plate Hollow Foam piece entirely disintegrated as was the Outer Foam ring...Piezo Cut.
I removed the columns from the Outer to use on the Inner as the outer was No Longer making contact.

I just posted in another Topic similar to the one here..
As far as Foam for the Columns..one I haven't ordered/tried yet is EVA Foam Round Dowels..there are 15mm which is the size of the columns .600..using the 20mm..or making stepped Version..10/15/20mm..etc




The Inner/Center Piezo replaced using a Decoupler and placed underneath the Trigger Plate..Not on Top.
I placed Foam standoffs on all 4 corners to raise it off the remaining Foam ring which was still in good shape.
This raised the entire Plate setup to where it made contact with the Mesh Head and the Foam ring is the auto-height adjustment.Sensitivity is from the edge to center..Ghost Notes etc etc.The Outer Piezo still works without Columns contacting the Head...Sensitivity KnobFar right turn the Snare would "Ring" (if the sample has it)..far left took the Ring out.
I haven't heard back in a year or so as I should replace the outer ring which is probably dust by now and the Outer Trigger Plate lower in the shell.The last time he said everything was working fine..,Repair was done during Covid.





EDIT:
Added Images,Links

[307e]

Thanks, Chaser - you have been so kind and helpful..... but I have to say I'm pretty much done with this snare drum repair.

Tried replacing the piezos - still dead spots. Put back original outer piezo and new centre piezo on spongy sticky pads, back to original dead spots. Dismantle again, glue in the acrylic 'bridges' between the inner and outer clear plastic ring, still dead spots and noticeably quieter response, like the volume had been turned down. It seems you can't alter the volume of each pad from the module, just the characteristics so frankly tried every setting up and down - still quiet. All the other parts of the kit are loud and if you plug in another tom to the snare cable, full response, works fine. It's also interesting that you can tap the piezos with your finger and they are working fine and loud but if you tap the foam columns they don't trigger except the four around the centre piezo. Reset module to factory settings (all) still no different. Dismantled again and in desperation, added a piezo in parallel on the dead side of the acrylic ring. Reassembled - still quiet and dead spots. Tried a tight drum skin; loose drum skin, little difference.

It's going in the bin.

Unless you can think of a reason to keep trying to make it work......  I don't mind continuing and I have unending patience if I can see where I am going, but I cannot see how to get this thing to work as normal. 
In the meantime I contacted Alesis about a replacement snare drum and they said I could buy a new one at around ?322 GBP with the postage ($417!) with a six week pre order. For a drum kit that cost ?750 GBP ($970) new that I have barely had four months use out of is nothing short of disgusting. So very disappointed with Alesis.....
I have bought a secondhand snare for ?85.00 ($110) and hope it lasts a while. Would love to replace the Crimson II snare with a Roland 12" PD120 or PD125X but nervous of it not working. Otherwise I'll keep going with the secondhand snare then save for a Roland kit.

[Chaser]

Thanks, Chaser - you have been so kind and helpful..... but I have to say I'm pretty much done with this snare drum repair.

Tried replacing the piezos - still dead spots. Put back original outer piezo and new centre piezo on spongy sticky pads, back to original dead spots. Dismantle again, glue in the acrylic 'bridges' between the inner and outer clear plastic ring, still dead spots and noticeably quieter response, like the volume had been turned down. It seems you can't alter the volume of each pad from the module, just the characteristics so frankly tried every setting up and down - still quiet. All the other parts of the kit are loud and if you plug in another tom to the snare cable, full response, works fine. It's also interesting that you can tap the piezos with your finger and they are working fine and loud but if you tap the foam columns they don't trigger except the four around the centre piezo. Reset module to factory settings (all) still no different. Dismantled again and in desperation, added a piezo in parallel on the dead side of the acrylic ring. Reassembled - still quiet and dead spots. Tried a tight drum skin; loose drum skin, little difference.

It's going in the bin.

Unless you can think of a reason to keep trying to make it work......  I don't mind continuing and I have unending patience if I can see where I am going, but I cannot see how to get this thing to work as normal. 
In the meantime I contacted Alesis about a replacement snare drum and they said I could buy a new one at around ?322 GBP with the postage ($417!) with a six week pre order. For a drum kit that cost ?750 GBP ($970) new that I have barely had four months use out of is nothing short of disgusting. So very disappointed with Alesis.....
I have bought a secondhand snare for ?85.00 ($110) and hope it lasts a while. Would love to replace the Crimson II snare with a Roland 12" PD120 or PD125X but nervous of it not working. Otherwise I'll keep going with the secondhand snare then save for a Roland kit.

That's too bad..I only experienced dead spots if the columns were not making contact with the Head..for the most part ALL Kits with the Sensitivity Knob hvave been discontinued so it may have been more of a hassle than they thought.The Crimson II SE Do Not have the Sensitivity Knob.

Crimson and Crimson II are the same Kit...

Crimson II an SE added a 2nd Crash..and the Module has some Firmware Updates...otherwise exactly the same.
MODULE Changes:Red LCD..Different MIDI Mapping and the Pro-X (same Controller as STRIKE) option under the menu which does no good since it was discontinued nearly 10 Years ago.Supposedly Re-Mastered Samples and a different Kit or 2..but I don't hear a Noticeable difference side by side.
I have Both Modules..Prefer the Original Crimson as it supports Dual Zone Hi Hat and has a much better MIDI Map based on the GM Standard so works with everything at Default.



If you are looking for an actual Crimson Snare..check Instrumental Parts..$136.00 USD for a New 12"..Worldwide shipping Flat rate..Fed EX Express (International is $65.00..2-5 Days..There are lower shipping rates..but longer time and the cheapest..No Tracking.
I would double check everything prior to ordering..Sensitivity Knob included with snare and Shipping Rate..so there are No surprises.

As far as the Roland Triggers..as long as a Trigger is Piezo/Piezo it will work with the Module....how well depends on the settings etc etc.
Roland Head Piezos were reversed for wiring.

[307e]

Thank you so much for all that information! I have received the secondhand 12" snare and it's all up and running. 
Now that I have cooled down a bit I am going to strip the original snare again and go through it wire by wire - it's got to be possible to fix it. Probably repurpose it as Tom 4 and use the extra input.
I hate being beaten by machines - especially electrics - so I'll keep you posted on the outcome of my Alesis Adventure! Many thanks again!