Footswitch for cool ability to change kits...

[Rev2010]

I'm not talking about changing the kits inside the module but rather changing to different VST kits. I was thinking how awesome it would be for us to, for example, go from our regular DFH Superior kit to the Latin Percussion BFD kit at the press of a switch. We like to do some weird things right in the middle of the song so this would greatly expand our abilities.

Now, the way I figure we'd do this is simply to setup all the trigger (under instrument) in the DM10 for a particular kit on one midi channel. Then setup two switches, one forward and one back, to change kits in the DM10. The next kit would have all the triggers set to a different midi channel. In Cubase I would set DFH Superior to only read midi channel 1 for example and the second kit to only read midi channel 2. This way when I switch kits in the DM10 I am now essentially controlling different kits in Cubase, I just have to have them all loaded and record enabled first.

I'm looking for a footswitch that is either two switches with one stereo cable or two individual switches that do not have a hard wired cable, so I can use a splitter cable into one DM10 input. Can anyone point me to such a footswitch?


Rev.

[Rev2010]

Actually, found the Boss footswitches. They have a dual one called the FS-6 that I wonder if it would work. Some of these switches are latched and some unlatched, not sure which the DM10 would need.


Rev.

[Guinness]

You probably already know this...  you can change kits with a switch (or pad) in the DM10.  But that doesn't transfer over to a VST, I'd guess ().
 
 

[Rev2010]

You probably already know this...  you can change kits with a switch (or pad) in the DM10.  But that doesn't transfer over to a VST, I'd guess ().

Yeah I know I can change with a pad, but would rather use a footswitch to avoid an accidental change live. I did explain that I would not be technically "changing" kits in VST, I would be using the switch to change the kit's in the DM10 - to which I can assign a different midi channel to each trigger (under instrument in the DM10).

So, if I have this all figured right, if I setup one kit with all the triggers sending on midi channel 1 and have DFH Superior setup to receive only on midi channel 1 it will only trigger DFH. Then, when I switch to the next DM10 kit that is all setup for midi channel 2 it will only trigger the second VSTi that is set to only receive on channel 2. Simple enough.


Rev.

[Guinness]

I'm tapped out.   This is all WAY over my head, as I don't know much about Midi or VST's (other than they can sound fantastic!) 
 
Good topic. 

[Rev2010]

Hey no problem. Here's a simple explanation:

There are 16 midi channels, simply think of them like mixer channels. Now, you have two keyboards, a Roland and a Yamaha and you have two separate midi tracks you are going to be playing back to them - let's say a drum part to the Roland and a synth part to the Yamaha. Well, you'll need them to be on two different midi channels otherwise both parts will be playing to both synths, it will be a mess.

So you set the Roland to channel 1 and send the first midi part (drums) on channel 1. Then you set the Yamaha to channel 2 and send the second midi part (synth) on channel 2.

You can think of it just like mixer channels, but instead of sending audio midi sends data, that's all 

So, what I would do is load up two different drumkits in two VSTi's. Set one to midi channel 1 and the other to midi channel 2. If I didn't do this then both would playback simultaneously which of course I don't want. So I start off playing the first kit and when we want to use the next kit we change to a new kit in the DM10 that is all set to midi channel 2. So now only the second kit plays.

Hope that helps explain it.


Rev.

[Guinness]

So, then the trigger for the switch is occuring inside the DM10.  In that case, a simple spring switch would work, yes?   Off, On, Off. 
 
Ahh... but as I look through sweetwater's site, I don't see a "simple" off, on, off switch.  Hmmm.   And you'd want two switches to go Up and Down, right? (you may have mentioned that above).
 
if I come across anything, I'll post.
 

[Rev2010]

I'm currently looking at this one:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=686

Seems like it would work fine. Maybe I should post this on the VDrums forum as I'm sure someone would know if it works fine.

But man... doing this would expand our capabilities 10 fold. Would be so awesome to just cut into a completely different set of percussion during say a bridge.

*EDIT - just read the reviews and people say it works fine on Alesis modules and drum machines! 

Rev.

[Guinness]

Basically, I believe you are seeking a "non-latching footswitch normally open".  I found several on google.  Think keyboard sustain pedals.
 
 
I found a bunch at Sweetwater, but some descriptions weren't clear if they were normally open (which is what I believe you need). 
 
Wait...  I found this one:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KFP2M/

$59.95
 
The Roland one looks like it'd work too.

[zendrumdude]

Rev,

I'm following you, and in fact I do EXACTLY this on my Zendrum.

1) You'll definitely want Momentary switches, NOT latching for this application.

2) Are you certain the DM10 will allow different channels to be sent from different kits?  Just making sure...

Jer

[zendrumdude]

By the way Rev, you explained midi channels nicely.

People ask me all the time about my e-perc instruments.  I often explain midi by saying that hitting the drum pad is like pressing "play" on your CD player, and it plays a track that is ONE drum hit... and each drum is playing a different CD, each with its own drum sound.  That seems to help people understand how it isn't at ALL like an electric guitar, which is amplifying a physical vibration.

Midi is daunting for a while; I hope that if anyone has midi questions they'll ask!  I for one will try to help if I can.  For me, once I understood note numbers, velocity, channels, and CCs, I was good to go for drum applications... but it took me along time to get there!  At the time, I had no internet (high school kid, no computer in the house), and no one around here who knew midi... trial and error baby!   (Mostly error! )

Jer

[Rev2010]

Hiya Jer. The DM10 doesn't let you set a global midi channel for each kit itself but it let's you set midi channels for each individual instrument which would seem to clearly be tied to it's trigger. I think they did it this way to be less confusing rather than putting the setting under the trigger. Anyhow, since these settings are saved with each kit I think it should work fine. Gonna test it out tonight.


Rev.

[Rev2010]

OK, here's the deal... it's possible to do exactly what I want but NOT by using midi channels into VSTi's. The reason is Cubase seems to recieve ALL midi channels and when you select a midi channel for the track it simply directs all received midi data on all channels into the VSTi. This is fine with VSTi's that are multitimbral, of which I have a few, so you can play just the sound assigned to a specific midi channel. This is not helpful though for non-multitimbral VST's.

The good news is what I want is possible simply by using the midi note numbers. Since there's so many available and since the DM10 saves the note assignments with each kit I simply assign all the extra sounds in other kits to notes that aren't used in other DM10 kits. So for example, the snare is typically note D1. When I change kits I have the snare note set to something else like B5 so in another active VST it controls a different sound.    So all in all I can still do what I want. Would be easier to use midi channels but hey, it'll work fine using notes too as there's no way I could possibly max out all the available notes.


Rev.

[Hellfire]

OK, here's the deal... it's possible to do exactly what I want but NOT by using midi channels into VSTi's. The reason is Cubase seems to recieve ALL midi channels and when you select a midi channel for the track it simply directs all received midi data on all channels into the VSTi. This is fine with VSTi's that are multitimbral, of which I have a few, so you can play just the sound assigned to a specific midi channel. This is not helpful though for non-multitimbral VST's.

The good news is what I want is possible simply by using the midi note numbers. Since there's so many available and since the DM10 saves the note assignments with each kit I simply assign all the extra sounds in other kits to notes that aren't used in other DM10 kits. So for example, the snare is typically note D1. When I change kits I have the snare note set to something else like B5 so in another active VST it controls a different sound.    So all in all I can still do what I want. Would be easier to use midi channels but hey, it'll work fine using notes too as there's no way I could possibly max out all the available notes.


Rev.

Sounds good. Keep in mind, not all notes are changeable in the DM10. I don't think you can change the notes for the hi-hat, crash, and ride. Just an FYI. If you are already aware of that, then never mind. 

[Rev2010]

Yeah I know, and that part kinda sucks but at least it's something. I think it's only the hihat and ride that have locked midi notes, at least that's what the manual says.


Rev.