Author Topic: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?  (Read 632 times)

Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« on: September 01, 2021, 02:41:52 PM »
Hi!

I'm new here and new to Electronic drums also... and i'm searching for an answer on this... What dual cymbals hi-hat I could use for my Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit module? Would the one from the Strike Pro kit work? Any other one that could work beside the Pro X Hi-Hat since it does not exist anymore?

Thanks for the help in advance!

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2021, 04:18:21 PM »
Hi!

I'm new here and new to Electronic drums also... and i'm searching for an answer on this... What dual cymbals hi-hat I could use for my Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit module? Would the one from the Strike Pro kit work? Any other one that could work beside the Pro X Hi-Hat since it does not exist anymore?

Thanks for the help in advance!

Welcome to the Forum !

The DM10 MKII Pro (Medeli DD680) is compatible with a Single or Dual Zone Hi Hat..
The Pro-X (FSR) was Dual Cymbal but only Single Zone...the Original STRIKE Hi Hat is a 12" Dual Zone..Dual Cymbal.The STRIKE Pro SE is a 14" Dual zone..Single Cymbal.The 14" is actually a Triple (3) zone cymbal with the center/mount swapped out to a flat mount (The centers/mounts are interchageable) and the bottom cymbal was removed and replaced with a rubber boot but it still uses the same controller/spring.
I can confirm the DM10 MKII Pro is compatible with the STRIKE Series.
Other Hi Hats (Roland etc) may work (like the VH12) but the range is different/shorter so YMMV,you could also use a dual zone cymbal with the Goedrum controller...just make sure it's the Alesis model and the cymbal (if not a Hi Hat) can accept a clutch if you want it on a stand.
Hi Hat cymbals are flat where the clutch mounts, where as rides/crashes are setup for a pivot(rounded).
The other thing to watch for is where you have the module and where you plan on placing a stand.The disadvantage of a DB25 Harness is the Hi Hat cable is short as the Hi Hat is intended to be mounted on the rack near the module and the controller cable went to a pedal.The cables are similar in length for the Hi Hat and controller when routed/mounted on a stand.The DM10 MKII Pro DB25 harness is considerably longer than the other DB25 Harnesses which is a good thing but the Hi Hat cable may still be short,depends on stand placement.You can always get a TRS male to female extension cable if not.

If you are going to use a Dual Zone Hi Hat..DO NOT select Pro-X (FSR) in the menu settings.
The module will default to Single Zone as the Pro-X (FSR) is/was  Single Zone and the Edge Zone will not be visible in the menus.
Instead select "Pedal" and the Edge Zone will activate and you will have a Dual Zone Hi Hat and be visible in the menus..Pro-X and the STRIKE Hi Hats use the same bottom controller which is FSR.The Realhat Pedal is continuous/variable.The STRIKE controller works fine when the module settings are set to "Pedal"..

The DM10 MKII Pro was originally shipped with a Single Zone 12"...for whatever reason..


EDIT:Additional Info

Hard Reset........... UTILITY+TRIGGER+POWER
Auto Test...  UP+DOWN ARROWS+POWER...(Multiple Menus..Bluetooth Audio has not been activated.)
Firmware/update install (Currently there are none)....EXIT+ENTER+POWER..

« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 09:52:57 PM by Chaser »

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2021, 12:25:17 AM »
Wow thanks for the elaborate answer!

Looks like the best one for a dual cymbals is the Original 12" STRIKE Dual Zone Hi Hat ? So if I want that one, any normal hi-hat stand will work? I would put the module just next to the hi-hat stand so I guess I will have long enough wire to do this...Do you know the exact part number to that Original 12" STRIKE Dual Zone Hi Hat?

Thanks a lot for your reply!

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2021, 09:52:02 AM »
Wow thanks for the elaborate answer!

Looks like the best one for a dual cymbals is the Original 12" STRIKE Dual Zone Hi Hat ? So if I want that one, any normal hi-hat stand will work? I would put the module just next to the hi-hat stand so I guess I will have long enough wire to do this...Do you know the exact part number to that Original 12" STRIKE Dual Zone Hi Hat?

Thanks a lot for your reply!

The STRIKE Hi hats were included only with the kits although from time to time some Retailers have been offering them separately on ebay ..probably parting out kits.The 12" only came with the Original STRIKE and STRIKE Pro.
There is currently an ebay seller (Retailer) with a few and shows pt#102150219-A which is also the same listed on the Instrumentalparts site without an image.I would double check if purchasing there and make sure it's a complete assembly since there is no image.
You can use a standard Hi Hat stand which there are multiple choices.. most try to match their Kick pedal (Brand/Style) and Alesis has never offered a Hi Hat stand.The one thing to watch for is the size of the stand and rod/shaft length as some are very tall and have very long rods/shafts as the majority were designed for Acoustic Hi Hats/Kits.

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2021, 03:29:21 PM »
Thanks for the link, but that seller does not ship to Canada :(

Would this hi-hat stand works?

https://www.acclaim-music.com/tama-hh315d-speed-cobra-hi-hat-stand-hh-315-d.html

Is the top locking mechanism from the hi-hat needs to be the one from the kit or the one from the ''real'' hi-hat stand is ok?



UPDATE, contacted the seller and allowed Canada shipping! part is ordered :) thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 03:36:10 PM by DomGSR-T »

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2021, 06:06:52 PM »
Thanks for the link, but that seller does not ship to Canada :(

Would this hi-hat stand works?

https://www.acclaim-music.com/tama-hh315d-speed-cobra-hi-hat-stand-hh-315-d.html

Is the top locking mechanism from the hi-hat needs to be the one from the kit or the one from the ''real'' hi-hat stand is ok?



UPDATE, contacted the seller and allowed Canada shipping! part is ordered :) thanks a lot!

The stand depends on how you sit at the kit..and height is a personal choice..usually the HH is anywhere from 4-9"..or 6-12" above the snare..depends on who you talk to and technique so placement will be different for a short person with short legs compared to tall ..playing style..music style..etc etc...
Clutches that come with HH stands are generic and fit all Acoustic hi hats...Electronic hats are all designed differently, much thicker and most require the clutch designed for them..

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2021, 06:34:50 PM »
You have mention this on the previous post :

The one thing to watch for is the size of the stand and rod/shaft length as some are very tall and have very long rods/shafts as the majority were designed for Acoustic Hi Hats/Kits


Does It matters if it's very long? I guess the top hat lock will work even if there's a long rods comming out of it?

Thanks again for all the help :)

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2021, 07:26:24 PM »
You have mention this on the previous post :

The one thing to watch for is the size of the stand and rod/shaft length as some are very tall and have very long rods/shafts as the majority were designed for Acoustic Hi Hats/Kits


Does It matters if it's very long? I guess the top hat lock will work even if there's a long rods comming out of it?

Thanks again for all the help :)

Will work fine...as long as it doesn't poke your eye out...or get in the way if you have other cymbals etc to hit.I have seen E-Kits with Hi Hat stands where the pull rod is as high as the top of rack cymbals.I have HH stands with the pull rods  that vary from 8" on a remote..12" for a recent Gibraltar (overall height 43") to 18" for another Gibraltar HD (48" overall height) from "back in the day" when toms etc were mounted so high you couldn't see the drummer ...lol.
I think most of the HH stands produced today range from 28"-43" playing height.

You can see a variety of lengths here on Amazon..

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2021, 04:58:41 PM »
Ok I got the strike pro hi-hat installed and I have set the module to Pedal... looks like only the upper cymbal works and the hi-hat motion does not alter/change the sound... do I have to connect the Pedal hi-hat jack somewhere?

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2021, 05:57:43 PM »
Ok I got the strike pro hi-hat installed and I have set the module to Pedal... looks like only the upper cymbal works and the hi-hat motion does not alter/change the sound... do I have to connect the Pedal hi-hat jack somewhere?

The Hi Hat Controller is what changes the open to closed range.
The Hi Hat Controller cable from the module connects to the the Hi Hat controller on the stand..it replaces the RealHat pedal.
The controller has an 1/8"(3.5mm) input for the lower cymbal..and a 1/4"(6.35mm) for the HH Controller cable..make sure there isn't a large felt washer.
The controller must be on a solid base. You'll have to adjust the range of motion for the HH pedal and the top cymbal distance/gap from the spring by trying different placements on the rod as the Hi Hat articulations are different from the STRIKE to the DM10 MKII Pro.

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 03:48:47 AM »
ok I got it to work! I forgot to plug the pedal jack  :-[

Looks like the hi-hat is not a dual zone though? or I don't know where to enable it in the module? Also I don't know how to fine tune the open/mid open/close settings... when i'm on fully close sometimes the open sounds come up... I would have like to have a full documentation on all the settings in the alesis user manual... only the basics is listed but not all the settings are explain...

Again thanks a lot for your help!

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2021, 03:18:21 PM »
Ok I got the edge to work... but I have to hit pretty hard to get it to work other wise it's a BOW sounds that comes up...It's still not a real acoustic hi-hat and I hope to find a way to get it to work close to a real one soon...Since I just bought that DM10 MKII Pro Kit my guess is that the firmware must be to the latest release right? how can I check my firmware version? Also anyone knows where I can find a user manual that explain every settings from the module? Would a GoEdrum controller fix all my issues? :) thanks for the reply!

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2021, 12:23:07 AM »
Ok I got the edge to work... but I have to hit pretty hard to get it to work other wise it's a BOW sounds that comes up...

Adjust the settings.. threshold and sensitivity have a big affect on playing style...raise the sensitivity for the Edge..lower the Bow or a combination of both...It's going to be trial and error..
The only reason the information about the Dual Zone Hi Hat and STRIKE compatability exists is because I spent time going through the module as I have done on most of them and posted on this forum..
Other than myself you are one of the few to ask or even actually purchase the setup to use a STRIKE Hi Hat.

The STRIKE Hi Hat has been set up many different ways over the years..above the spring..resting on the spring..longer spring..felt washers..no bottom cymbal (replaced with a Rubber boot/housing ..no sensors connected)

The open to closed range (Drum module samples vary) depends on pressure..on the spring/FSR..and the 3 sensors on the bottom cymbal.The FSR is more sensitive to all around pressure than realized.

I have found the best initial setup for the 3 sensor bottom is...
(measure/note where the top cymbal is on the rod now in case you prefer that setup)
Loosen the wing nut on the top cymbal ..let the top cymbal drop down on the spring..
press the HH pedal down as you would normally to close the Hi Hat.
After you have the pedal pressed down..while holding the pedal down firmly.. press down on the top cymbal until it is pressed firmly against the bottom cymbal/sensors..while holding the top cymbal down firmly and the pedal down firmly..tighten the wing nut on the top cymbal...release the cymbal and the pedal
Check the open to closed range.The DM10 MKII Pro has a very good range..you should hear the Full range as you operate the pedal while striking the Hi Hat.
The range also depends on which spring you have as the coil bind is different.
Originally there was a black spring (shorter/thinner coil) and then later on the chrome spring (longer/thicker coil)
The DM10MKII Pro was never marketed as having a Dual Zone Hi Hat and All the Alesis Reps responses were "NO PRO-X Compatability" and NO Dual Zone Hi Hat..You'll have to adjust to playing style..there is no manual for adjusting a Dual Zone 2 pc Hi Hat controller on a traditional stand for the DM10 MKII Pro as no one (Alesis) knew it was possible so Technically this Feature doesn't exist so there isn't any instructions..also the open/closed range is dependent on the Articulations/Samples/Voices in the module.

Experiment with both Hi Hat options the module offers and see what works best for you..Pedal or PRO-X.
The Hi Hat Voices/Samples are in groups of 4 (#444-486).. HH(Bow)-Edge-Pedal-Splash.
They vary from all 4 to some having 3 (No Edge)..or 2 (No Edge or Splash).Check the Voice list.
You can use them in any combination on the Hi Hat and they will save.
A number of modules you are stuck with Hi Hat Combinations and when one Voice is selected it is applied to all or if you select individual Voices you have no open/close range with the HH Controller..The Hi Hat is either open or closed.
There are also a number of Curves available for the Hi Hat,the pedal,and the Splash and a close point..
You'll need to experiment until you get to the desired settings that you want."Normal" = Linear.
The Hi Hat is also dependent on the Voice/Sample pool..if there isn't 1/4-1/2-3/4 open samples etc then it doesn't matter what Hi Hat setup you have.

The DM10 MKII Pro has the Feature to save multiple instances of the Trigger Settings to USB..create one setup with a Pedal Hi Hat and another with a Pro-X and you can switch back and forth to see what works best for you..
The User Guide states ". DM10 MKII Pro has a set of preset trigger settings and 5 user adjustable trigger settings. "....I manually put 50 in the USB folder to test and the module recognized/ displayed all of them.
The DM10MKII Pro can also load user samples so if you have an understanding of how to create and construct a Hi Hat you can build your own with the range you are looking for...

Quote
It's still not a real acoustic hi-hat and I hope to find a way to get it to work close to a real one soon

There isn't an Electronic Hi Hat that reacts like a "Real Acoustic."
Over the past few years they have gotten better but not even a $2K+ Roland TD50 module and a $1K Digital Hi hat(6 zones) or the $2K MIMIC Pro and a $500-$1K Hi Hat reacts like a "Real" one.The complaints are still there...just not as many.You still have to spend some quality time with them to obtain the best results.

Quote
Since I just bought that DM10 MKII Pro Kit my guess is that the firmware must be to the latest release right? how can I check my firmware version?

There isn't a Firmware update,Firmware hasn't changed since the modules release (2017).
Unless there is a major problem firmware updates for Medeli modules are never released.
Medeli has only released one firmware update in over 10 years which was for the DM6 and a snare issue.
 
Quote
Also anyone knows where I can find a user manual that explain every settings from the module?

You should already have the User Guide from the product download page..

DM10 MKII Pro User Guide v1.0... settings start on pg 9

Basic entry level drum modules don't have much in the way of trigger adjustment or effects..you are stuck with what you get and have to adapt your playing style to accommodate the module.

The DM10 MKII Pro is a more advanced module so it's expected/presumed the user has a good understanding of how E-drums work and how FX are applied to drums and changes/combinations can affect the instruments so you can adjust the module to accommodate you.The more advanced module the more features it has.
The same applies to drumming software..just because one may have the $$$ for one of the most advanced software/Vst like SD3 doesn't guarantee you'll instantly be making Professional Sounding Drum kits at the push of a button.There is a learning curve and some of them are steep...

Youtube is a good source for videos on mixing drums,applying FX..transients,Instrument creation etc.

Quote
Would a GoEdrum controller fix all my issues? :) thanks for the reply!

No..if the settings are incorrect it isn't going to matter trying a different HH Controller you'll still have to take the time to figure out the correct settings for it also and as mentioned above if the samples aren't in the module then it doesn't matter what Hi Hat setup you have.
The STRIKE HH Controller (FSR) and RealHat pedal (Variable/Continuous) use foot pressure..the Goedrum use a simple slider (like a fader) and you need to be sure it's the Alesis model which has a generic range to cover most of the Alesis lineup.

The DM10 MKII Pro has a lot of potential..If you take the time to learn the module...

NOTE:
The DM10 MKII Pro has a number of large Tom sets (11) have 6 Toms..(4) have 8.(expanding your kit with splitters or a TMI)
There is a X-Stick for the snare and strainer settings (4) for all 3..Head/Rim/X-Stick..

The DM10MKII Pro has Bi-Directional USB Audio which none of the other Alesis modules have including the STRIKE.

The DM10 MKII Pro also loads/supports playback of MIDI files (Format0 and Format1, max.32 tracks, PPQN<480)
Just place them in the song folder as you would MP3 or wav.I haven't had the time to test if the module is GM2 and MIDI files can be edited to different banks/kits or if playback is limited to the standard GM soundbank.
There isn't much available as far as MIDI Implementation information and Alesis isn't going to release it.

There is a large FX section for sound design with multiple Types with each having a full range of settings.
There is also the feature of putting Triggers into an FX group (up to 3).
You can setup Two Stage Compression..

USER GUIDE

KIT EFFECT
AUTO WAH:(2) Types...Auto Wah, Tempo Auto Wah
CHORUS:(4 Types)...Chorus1, Chorus2, Chorus3,Chorus4
COMPRESSION
DELAY:(7) Types...Echo, LR Delay, LCR Delay,Cross Delay, Tempo Delay, Tempo Echo, Tempo Cross
EQ:L/M/H..Freq and Gain..MID Q
FLANGER:(3) Types...Flanger1, Flanger2, Flanger3
LO FI:(2) Types...Lo-Fi 1, Lo-Fi 2
OVERDRIVE:(4) Types...Overdrive1, Overdrive2,Overdrive3, Overdrive4
PAN:(2) Types...Auto Pan1, Auto Pan2
PHASER:(3) Types...Phaser1, Phaser2, Phaser3
PITCHCHANGE:(3) Types...PitchChange 1, PitchChange 2,PitchChange 3
REVERB:(2) Halls,(3) Rooms...M Basic Hall, M Hall, M Room 1–3
SENS WAH:(2) Types...Sens Wah1, Sens Wah2
TREMELO:(2) Types...Tremolo, Vibrato
 
VOICE EFFECT
EQ: Gain.. Low-Mid(3)-High
Compression:(4) Types..Bypass, Standard, Limiter, Attacky
Reverb:(3)Halls..(3) Rooms + Church/Cave/garage

MASTER EFFECT
EQ:L/M/H..Freq and Gain..MID Q
Compression

The majority if not all the kits are "wet"...try taking a kit and shut off all the FX and make it a dry kit , then apply some techniques from a few notable producers.

USER GUIDE vs MODULE...FYI

KIT FX
PAN:..there isn't Autopan 1&2 under KIT FX..there is a PAN 1&2 under VOICE FX
REVERB:(1) DRUM STUDIO (2) Halls,(2) Rooms...DRUM STUDIO,M Basic Hall, M Hall, M Room 1–2
SENS WAH:there isn't a sens wah under KIT FX..there is a SENCE WAH 1&2 under VOICE FX
TREMELO:there isn't a tremelo under KIT FX..it is under VOICE FX (tremelo and "Vibrator")

VOICE FX
Auto Wah,Chorus,Delay,Flanger,Lo Fi,Overdrive,Pan,Phaser,Pitchchange,Sence Wah,Tremelo, are all also listed under VOICE FX and have a DRY/WET balance setting.
Reverb under VOICE FX does not include DRUM STUDIO..

MASTER EFFECT is under Utility
MASTER EFFECT is also where you can make adjustments(EQ/Compression) to the Songs..Internal and USER MIDI Files/Songs loaded from USB

EDIT: Added Voice List Link

DM10 MKII Pro Voice List

« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 05:54:45 PM by Chaser »

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2021, 01:40:40 AM »
Thanks a lot for all those answers! It helped me a lot so far... I have edge and bow working 95% of the time, still get some bow like 1-2 times out of 10 edge strokes... I get 100% edge when hitting hard... but looks like I lost the splash sound completely... I have the chrome spring but maybe I have to get a felt washer to open even more?...still work to be done. I have a setting questions: what is the SP-Sensi in the Trigger/Pedal settings? Would a midi software like EzDrummer gives me more hi-hat settings?

Offline Chaser

Re: Dual Cymbals hi-hat for Alesis DM10 MKII Pro Kit?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2021, 08:57:47 AM »
Thanks a lot for all those answers! It helped me a lot so far... I have edge and bow working 95% of the time, still get some bow like 1-2 times out of 10 edge strokes... I get 100% edge when hitting hard... but looks like I lost the splash sound completely...

The directions I posted are for trying to get a consistent initial setup especially with all the different responses from Hi Hat setups Chain Drive, Direct Drive, strap etc
I have tried everything including using different pairs of sticks to set the gap between the top/bottom cymbal..(2)5A..(2) 7A etc.
I have found the directions posted are the most consistent that everyone can start with.
Alesis did away with the bottom cymbal with the release of the STRIKE Pro SE and now uses a rubber boot/housing for the spring.

Missed Hits of the biggest complaints about Electronic Hi Hats and depends on playing style and settings.
A fast stepper or dynamic player always has a lot of problems.There aren't a lot of Jazz players complimenting E-drums
Try raising the Splash Sensitivity

Quote
I have the chrome spring but maybe I have to get a felt washer to open even more?...still work to be done.

The Chrome spring is longer and thicker coil..if anything it causes the Hi Hat to close faster and may prevent the top completely pressing against the sensors.
A felt washer won't make it more open...taking the pressure off the FSR by lifting the cymbal off of the spring is what makes it open..no pressure is full open.
Adding a felt washer would increase the gap between top/bottom and increase the physical pedal travel range

Quote
I have a setting questions: what is the SP-Sensi in the Trigger/Pedal settings?

SP Sensi: Splash sensitivity. The higher value makes the splash easier..0-7.
I believe the default setting for the DM10 MKII Pro is 2.

If the Splash is still missing go through the Hi Hat setup again only don't press down as firmly/ease up on the pedal when you lock it down..the range is sensitive to pressure and by not having as much pressure on the pedal during the initial setup will be a micro adjustment to the gap for open/closed.
See in your early post.."when i'm on fully close sometimes the open sounds come up"..that is the Splash triggering.
The module triggers it with a sudden change in voltage from open/close range.

Quote
Would a midi software like EzDrummer gives me more hi-hat settings?

Different software/Vst have different Hi Hat implementation..some are much better than others and all the developers are constantly working on it.
Check the forums for Vst/Software you are interested in.I believe Toontrack now requires you to have actually purchased the software in order to partcipate in their forums so you'll have to check around.EZ Drummer doesn't have anywhere near the Hi Hat SD3 has..

Electronic Hi Hats is an ongoing struggle and has been since Day 1 of E-Drums

NOTE:
The edge triggers are not the greatest on STRIKE Cymbals and take some extra time/settings combinations to get dialed in as best as possible.
There is around a .030 gap from the top rubber (there is a raised section for contacting the membrane switch) to the switch before it makes contact which means you have to hit hard and accurate which is difficult with the thick rubber.
I have done a "tape job" to all the cymbals..it makes a very noticeable improvement..see this post STRIKE Ride Cymbal repair

If you are somewhat good with your hands and have a little patience it is simple.I use a cheap set of Automotive trim tools to disassemble E-Cymbals.You need a wide pry bar to  to remove the Top cap..not the entire top , just enough to release the edge for about 1/2 the diameter..a screwdriver or anything narrow may break the lip as it requires an even application of pressure to get the tape to release.

EDIT:
Added Cymbal Repair and misc Links

« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 11:41:30 AM by Chaser »