Author Topic: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head  (Read 716 times)

Offline Joker47

MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« on: May 13, 2021, 09:21:36 PM »
So, I was fiddling around on my kit last night, and suddenly the snare head stopped working. That is, there was none, or VERY little sound coming from a hit. The rim worked and  sounded perfectly fine. It is just the head.
I plugged the snare cable into Tom #1, and both the head and rim worked fine.

So, suspect it’s the trigger.

My question is how to take apart the snare drum to check for loose wires, or whatever? Is there some sort of instructions on how to take apart the drum? (I’m ok looking for electrical issues) but want to try and not damage anything by taking it apart wrong.

If anyone can point to something that will help take it apart, or even just tell me how, I would be grateful. 🙂

J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2021, 10:40:58 PM »
So, I was fiddling around on my kit last night, and suddenly the snare head stopped working. That is, there was none, or VERY little sound coming from a hit. The rim worked and  sounded perfectly fine. It is just the head.
I plugged the snare cable into Tom #1, and both the head and rim worked fine.

So, suspect it’s the trigger.

My question is how to take apart the snare drum to check for loose wires, or whatever? Is there some sort of instructions on how to take apart the drum? (I’m ok looking for electrical issues) but want to try and not damage anything by taking it apart wrong.

If anyone can point to something that will help take it apart, or even just tell me how, I would be grateful.

J

The Piezo's failing have been the number one complaint I have read about the DM10 MKII Pro Kit...for some reason failing more so than others.
Check the Piezo wires first..then see if the plate is broken..
One user had quite a few fail..repair broken /failing mesh head triggers

EDIT:
The DM10 MKII Pro drums should be the same as the DM10 mesh...and be the same..easier to see in this video.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 10:55:30 PM by Chaser »

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2021, 10:50:25 PM »


Check the Piezo wires first..then see if the plate is broken..
The DM10 MKII Pro drums should be the same as the DM10 mesh...and be the same procedure..as here

Actually, I ran across that same video just a bit ago, and went back to check it. It all seems fine, no disconnected wires that I could see. .
But, I didn’t check to see if it was cracked. Based on that video and what I’ve seen do far, I think it’s the piezo, but not sure yet if it’s broken or just “bad”.

Worst case, assuming it is bad/broken, does Alesis sell spare piezo’s? Or do we go aftermarket?

Thanks again…
J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2021, 11:05:40 PM »


Check the Piezo wires first..then see if the plate is broken..
The DM10 MKII Pro drums should be the same as the DM10 mesh...and be the same procedure..as here

Actually, I ran across that same video just a bit ago, and went back to check it. It all seems fine, no disconnected wires that I could see. .
But, I didn’t check to see if it was cracked. Based on that video and what I’ve seen do far, I think it’s the piezo, but not sure yet if it’s broken or just “bad”.

Worst case, assuming it is bad/broken, does Alesis sell spare piezo’s? Or do we go aftermarket?

Thanks again…
J

Pre-wired Piezos are dirt cheap...you can get them everywhere..Amazon , ebay etc.
Alesis uses either a 35mm or 27mm..double check the size usually toms are 27mm for the head and 35MM for the Rim which was dead center bottom...
also check the length of wire.
A lot of the toms/snares (mainly the snare) had the wires break off because they were too tight.The early drum pads didn't have the gaff type mesh tape to hold the wires in place so you could see easily if a wire broke off the ceramic.Thats why when the piezo was pinched in the video he just clamped it.Piezos flex..If he were to have removed the tape the wire/solder was probably broken...you will find numerous posts/topics here on it.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 11:21:15 PM by Chaser »

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2021, 11:22:29 PM »


Pre-wired Piezos are dirt cheap...you can get them everywhere..Amazon , ebay etc.
Alesis uses either a 35mm or 27mm..double check the size usually toms are 27mm for the head and 35MM for the Rim which was dead center bottom...

Yessir. I just ordered some from Amazon. Should be here tomorrow. Thank you.

I did take another look, and looked closer. The center piezo has a one of the wires snapped clean in half. (Almost looks like it was cut.)

Either myself or my roommate might try stripping and re-soldering the wires back together. But, there's not a lot of room to work with seeing where it broke. (Maybe 1/8" from it's solder point on the piezo itself? Just out from under the "glue".)

That all said, and assuming I just replace it, is there anyway DIY hack to make that center piezo a bit more robust? I can already see where I can add more "glue" to help secure the wires better. But, any other good ideas that someone might know of?

Regards,
J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2021, 04:42:01 PM »
Ended up picking up a few 27mm piezo’s from Amazon, and decided to just completely replace the one that had the broken wire, rather than try and splice the wire as close as it was to the piezo itself.

Fortunately, my roommate is a former soldering trainer at a former board factory where we originally met, and she was able to do the splicing in of the new piezo. The repair was covered by shrink tubing.
I also noticed while looking around the area, that a couple of “supporting” pieces of plastic around the replaced piezo were broken. I put a couple of small pieces of plastic over them and siliconed them into place. Not sure if it’ll make any difference at all, but I thought reinforcing something broken hopefully couldn’t hurt.

Just got done giving it a quick test, and it works great!!

Thanks for the help, Chaser. Much appreciated. Now here’s hoping I don’t have to do it again any time soon….lol

J
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 03:01:54 AM by Joker47 »
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2021, 09:24:50 AM »
Ended up picking up a few 27mm piezo’s from Amazon, and decided to just completely replace the one that had the broken wire, rather than try and splice the wire as close as it was to the piezo itself.

Fortunately, my roommate is a former soldering trainer at a former board factory where we originally met, and was able to do the splicing in of the new piezo. The repair was covered by shrink tubing.
I also noticed while looking around the area, that a couple of “supporting” pieces of plastic around the replaced piezo were broken. I put a couple of small pieces of plastic over them and siliconed them into place. Not sure if it’ll make any difference at all, but I thought reinforcing something broken hopefully couldn’t hurt.

Just got done giving it a quick test, and it works great!!

Thanks for the help, Chaser. Much appreciated. Now here’s hoping I don’t have to do it again any time soon….lol

J

Happy to hear you got it fixed..
Thanks for posting the pics..
I am not familiar with that exact internal design..looks like some improvements were made.I thought the DM10 MK Pro was a continuation of all the original DM10 Mesh drums/inventory..The chambers look interesting for a multiple piezo setup..
Is the center piezo glue directly to the clear plate and the plate rests on the foam and those arms (horizontal) are connecting the center plate to the outer plate or is the center plate glued directly to the foam?.

Were the wires laying on top of the plastic next to the outer piezo/pickup?..I see a lot of sharp edges where the wires can rub..
If you have problems again ,try cutting cut a piece of double side foam tape the diameter/size of the center/ceramic portion.
This exposes the outer brass and allows the piezo to pick up the vibrations and flex better than just directly glued to the trigger plate ..
There are a lot of complaints about the trigger design for this model...but I wonder if the complaints were for early or later design..or if the DM10 MKII Pro always had this design.
Can you see through the mesh if the smaller toms have the same design or is it just the 12"?


EDIT:
I attached a pic of the 10" Snare that came with the Crimson/DM10 MKII Studio.. etc..it is the earlier design that came with the original DM10 mesh kits...then mesh kits after Rolands patent expired including STRIKE/STRIKE Pro etc.
The piezo is attached underneath..upside down..there is no ring/chambers and no tool access areas cut into the plates for removal etc and a much smaller metal plate... you can imagine how small the trigger setup would be inside a 12"..it looks small in the 10".
The second pic (STRIKE Pro 14" Snare) shows how that designed failed a lot...



« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 12:08:30 PM by Chaser »

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2021, 04:39:53 PM »


Is the center piezo glue directly to the clear plate and the plate rests on the foam and those arms (horizontal) are connecting the center plate to the outer plate or is the center plate glued directly to the foam?.

Yes, it's "glued" directly to the plastic "shield" underneath. I can't tell if the center plastic plate is glued to the foam underneath, but I suspect not judging by how it moves. The foam "posts" on the top of the shield, have a slightly sticky bottom to hold them in place. (There were some scattered around inside that had come loose when I first opened it up. ) I guess the others underneath might have the same??

The "arms" to the sides are connected to outer plastic circle as one piece, but those had snapped on the side next to the center where the piezo is placed. I put a small strip of plastic, like packaging, across the top of each, and used the silicone sealant/adhesive to hold them in place. Kind a of a hack and I don't know if it made any difference, but figured it couldn't hurt.
It doesn't appear that any of the plastic shield on the top is glued to any part of the foam underneath.

Were the wires laying on top of the plastic next to the outer piezo/pickup?..I see a lot of sharp edges where the wires can rub..

They were. But there is a lot of space on the top, and they didn't have a lot of play. (Less than I left after the repair.) The cut in the wire was so close to the piezo itself, I don't see how it could have rubbed against anything. (It was right at the edge of the piezo, but still on the piezo body.)
I thought of using a small amount of silicone to hold the wires in place, but not knowing what the plastic shield is actually there for, and there was no silicone originally holding them in place, I decided not to for the time being. The wires don't really move much now that they're soldered, so I'm hopeful for now. :-)

If you have problems again ,try cutting cut a piece of double side foam tape the diameter/size of the center/ceramic portion.
This exposes the outer brass and allows the piezo to pick up the vibrations and flex better than just directly glued to the trigger plate ..
There are a lot of complaints about the trigger design for this model...but I wonder if the complaints were for early or later design..or if the DM10 MKII Pro always had this design.

That's a great idea. I'll try that if I have to do it again. I just put it back in the way I found it. :-)

Can you see through the mesh if the smaller toms have the same design or is it just the 12"?

I just took a quick look. I can see the foam posts, but can't see in well enough to tell if there's the plastic shield.

If I open one up at some point, I'll update here with some pics. :-)

EDIT:
I attached a pic of the 10" Snare that came with the Crimson/DM10 MKII Studio.. etc..it is the earlier design that came with the original DM10 mesh kits...then mesh kits after Rolands patent expired including STRIKE/STRIKE Pro etc.
The piezo is attached underneath..upside down..there is no ring/chambers and no tool access areas cut into the plates for removal etc and a much smaller metal plate... you can imagine how small the trigger setup would be inside a 12"..it looks small in the 10".
The second pic (STRIKE Pro 14" Snare) shows how that designed failed a lot...

Good lord. That looks miserable.  :o
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2021, 08:57:14 PM »
Good lord. That looks miserable.  :o

lol...I presumed you had this trigger setup which is why I originally asked the questions I did.
That's why pictures are worth a 1,000 words...your pics show a design change somewhere along the DM10 MKII Pro time lines.
The STRIKE Pro had an upgraded trigger design with the release of the SE..but it was just a new trigger plate and new tapered disc foam columns.
That DM10 MKII Pro trigger design is all it's own..
Upgraded/updated STRIKE Pro SE 14" Snare pic attached.

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2021, 09:03:41 PM »


lol...I presumed you had this trigger setup which is why I originally asked the questions I did.
That's why pictures are worth a 1,000 words...your pics show a design change somewhere along the DM10 MKII Pro time lines.
The STRIKE Pro had an upgraded trigger design with the release of the SE..but it was just a new trigger plate and new tapered disc foam columns.
That DM10 MKII Pro trigger design is all it's own..
Upgraded/updated STRIKE Pro SE 14" Snare pic attached.

That looks really nice now. LOL

I guess I’m not going to complain TOO loudly after seeing what it used to look like.  ;D

J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2021, 01:30:23 PM »

lol...I presumed you had this trigger setup which is why I originally asked the questions I did.
That's why pictures are worth a 1,000 words...your pics show a design change somewhere along the DM10 MKII Pro time lines.
The STRIKE Pro had an upgraded trigger design with the release of the SE..but it was just a new trigger plate and new tapered disc foam columns.
That DM10 MKII Pro trigger design is all it's own..
Upgraded/updated STRIKE Pro SE 14" Snare pic attached.

Chaser, on that Strike snare. The second picture below that you posted. Was that an upgrade/remodel you did? Or did Alesis upgrade their design inside the Strike snare compared to the DM10 MKii Pro?

Thanks,
J
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 01:45:27 PM by Joker47 »
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2021, 03:15:25 PM »

lol...I presumed you had this trigger setup which is why I originally asked the questions I did.
That's why pictures are worth a 1,000 words...your pics show a design change somewhere along the DM10 MKII Pro time lines.
The STRIKE Pro had an upgraded trigger design with the release of the SE..but it was just a new trigger plate and new tapered disc foam columns.
That DM10 MKII Pro trigger design is all it's own..
Upgraded/updated STRIKE Pro SE 14" Snare pic attached.

Chaser, on that Strike snare. The second picture below that you posted. Was that an upgrade/remodel you did? Or did Alesis upgrade their design inside the Strike snare compared to the DM10 MKii Pro?

Thanks,
J

That was Alesis "fix" or update/upgrade for the collapsing columns and shattering trigger plate that was occurring with the "original" STRIKE/Pro snare.
I don't know if Alesis applied the same "fix" or update/upgrade to all the toms.I presume they did.
I don't have any of the SE shells with the New Mesh head and lugs to check..
The New 20" Bass/Kick has a crossbar/tower inside..


Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2021, 05:45:51 PM »

That was Alesis "fix" or update/upgrade for the collapsing columns and shattering trigger plate that was occurring with the "original" STRIKE/Pro snare.
I don't know if Alesis applied the same "fix" or update/upgrade to all the toms.I presume they did.
I don't have any of the SE shells with the New Mesh head and lugs to check..
The New 20" Bass/Kick has a crossbar/tower inside..

Do you know roughly when the new design was implemented? I'm thinking of getting a spare snare, and was looking at the Strike snares. But, I'd obviously want to get one with the new design. (Mines broken for a third time, and we're looking at ways to try and reinforce the wires.) But, a spare would be nice to have in the meantime, as well.
There's quite a few for sale, but I don't know what to ask as far as figuring out what the inside is like.

Regards,
J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2021, 06:55:53 PM »

That was Alesis "fix" or update/upgrade for the collapsing columns and shattering trigger plate that was occurring with the "original" STRIKE/Pro snare.
I don't know if Alesis applied the same "fix" or update/upgrade to all the toms.I presume they did.
I don't have any of the SE shells with the New Mesh head and lugs to check..
The New 20" Bass/Kick has a crossbar/tower inside..

Do you know roughly when the new design was implemented? I'm thinking of getting a spare snare, and was looking at the Strike snares. But, I'd obviously want to get one with the new design. (Mines broken for a third time, and we're looking at ways to try and reinforce the wires.) But, a spare would be nice to have in the meantime, as well.
There's quite a few for sale, but I don't know what to ask as far as figuring out what the inside is like.

Regards,
J

Any of the STRIKE SE..they are easy to tell apart..New mesh head (white w LOGO) and lugs..
I don't know how many any of the original STRIKE series had the update/upgrade or an exact date of when..
There were reports of a newer snare version for the original series and I seen some sold by reputable sellers who stated they were the updated..
Check with sellers like doblydrums on ebay...he has one and would know if it is an updated one or not as he has sold them in the past.

Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2021, 07:56:20 PM »


Any of the STRIKE SE..they are easy to tell apart..New mesh head (white w LOGO) and lugs..
I don't know how many any of the original STRIKE series had the update/upgrade or an exact date of when..
There were reports of a newer snare version for the original series and I seen some sold by reputable sellers who stated they were the updated..
Check with sellers like doblydrums on ebay...he has one and would know if it is an updated one or not as he has sold them in the past.

Thanks Chaser. I’ve got a Strike SE snare saved. (Well, they say it’s an SE, and it has the white mesh head. LOL)
Do you think it would be weird to ask the seller to take the head off and take a pic of the inside?

I have an idea to reinforce the piezo wires, which has been what broke every time it’s failed. The piezo itself has been fine. I have a few piezo’s coming with thicker wires attached that I’m hopeful will prevent this happening so often. Time will tell. 🙂

Thanks,
J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare

Offline Chaser

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2021, 09:25:41 PM »


Any of the STRIKE SE..they are easy to tell apart..New mesh head (white w LOGO) and lugs..
I don't know how many any of the original STRIKE series had the update/upgrade or an exact date of when..
There were reports of a newer snare version for the original series and I seen some sold by reputable sellers who stated they were the updated..
Check with sellers like doblydrums on ebay...he has one and would know if it is an updated one or not as he has sold them in the past.

Thanks Chaser. I’ve got a Strike SE snare saved. (Well, they say it’s an SE, and it has the white mesh head. LOL)
Do you think it would be weird to ask the seller to take the head off and take a pic of the inside?

I have an idea to reinforce the piezo wires, which has been what broke every time it’s failed. The piezo itself has been fine. I have a few piezo’s coming with thicker wires attached that I’m hopeful will prevent this happening so often. Time will tell.

Thanks,
J

The SE are unmistakable..they have the new Mesh head with Alesis Logo..the only white mesh head Alesis ever made  black hardware and drum lugs..the original STRIKE are floating shells..NO LUGS
The wires to the piezo are usually  7 strand...depends on where you buy them..some are 24 to 32 gauge.
I use military grade that I have had from years gone by when I did Aerospace machining..which is silicone..Teflon coated , 24 gauge 40 strand..silver stranded...similar to this.. 24 Gauge Silicone Wire 40 strand
Thicker wires put more strain on the solder joint and need higher heat for soldering and I see a lot of users fry the ceramic center..Use Gaff tape (or a mesh tape) or hot glue to hold the wire to the piezo so the wire isn't constantly flexing against the piezo..like bending wire back and forth..it eventually breaks..thicker wire flexing usually pulls the solder off..


Offline Joker47

Re: MKii Pro snare not working/no sound from head
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2021, 10:33:08 PM »


The SE are unmistakable..they have the new Mesh head with Alesis Logo..the only white mesh head Alesis ever made  black hardware and drum lugs..the original STRIKE are floating shells..NO LUGS
The wires to the piezo are usually  7 strand...depends on where you buy them..some are 24 to 32 gauge.
I use military grade that I have had from years gone by when I did Aerospace machining..which is silicone..Teflon coated , 24 gauge 40 strand..silver stranded...similar to this.. 24 Gauge Silicone Wire 40 strand
Thicker wires put more strain on the solder joint and need higher heat for soldering and I see a lot of users fry the ceramic center..Use Gaff tape (or a mesh tape) or hot glue to hold the wire to the piezo so the wire isn't constantly flexing against the piezo..like bending wire back and forth..it eventually breaks..thicker wire flexing usually pulls the solder off..

Cool. It’s definitely an SE. has everything you said, plus says “Special Edition” on the bottom. LOL

I attached a pic of the piezo’s I have arriving tomorrow. They’re actually a set of piezo’s for an acoustic electric guitar. Same size and look to have thicker wires. Why not?

I’ve been trying to find the places to hold down the wire to keep from flexing, but it breaks in the weirdest places. Between the silicon and some tape, and some thicker wire on the piezo’s, maybe I can get it work a while longer. LOL

Thanks for your help again. If I finally find something that seems to hold up, I’ll post a pic.

Regards,
J
Alesis DM10 MKll Pro kit w/full size kick and offset Eclipse double bass pedal; Dual Alesis Strike modules; Strike cymbals; Zildjian L80 hi hat; 12 channel mixer; Strike SE snare