Author Topic: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat  (Read 574 times)

Offline Chaser

Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« on: September 22, 2020, 03:38:47 PM »
I had some time today to go back and go through a checklist I have for some of the modules.
One of the things I had noticed was the DD650 (COMMAND/CRIMSON/II/DM10 MKII Studio/FORGE)
DB25 Harness has a TRS cable for the Hi Hat...



After some experimenting with the module I have left (Crimson) it does in fact have a dual zone Hi Hat..Bow... and there is an Edge ..

BOW


EDGE


The Hi Hat Combinations and other samples assign to the Edge..
The tricky part is finding/triggering the Edge..There isn't a standard sensitivity setting for the Edge
There is a Rim Sensitivity setting like you would find for the Toms. When you do trigger it...Factory default is at 1.

To trigger the Edge easier and increase the sensitivity so it triggers and appears normally in the menus for adjustments.. go into the Hi Hat (BOW) settings..reduce the sensitivity to 1...(1 is the lowest setting..there isn't "zero".)

BOW Settings


Strike the Edge zone you will see the Hi Hat Edge appear in the Menu..
Increase the Rim Sensitivity..

EDGE Settings


After increasing the Rim Sensitivity for the EDGE you can go back and raise the sensitivity on the BOW.
I do not know if all the modules have dual zone Hi Hat capabilities.I have sold all the DD650 series I had except the Crimson.
I presume Crimson and above..Crimson II..DM10 MKII Studio would have it since they are next in the heirarchy of kits.

To check your module..
See if the Hi Hat cable is TRS...(from my understanding all the harness are the same...firmware is the difference.)
Connect a dual zone cymbal ,Adjust the Hi Hat Sensitivity to 1...strike the Edge and see if the Edge pops up on the screen.

The Crimson Hi Hat uses the "10" Cymbal Single Zone"..I tested with the "10" Cymbal with Choke" and it triggered.
I also tested a Strike Hi Hat and later on will try the complete STRIKE Hi Hat setup... 

EDIT:
After some quick testing..the STRIKE HI Hat does work and better than expected.
The HH TRS cable from the DB25 Harness is short so you may want to consider an extension cable because of the extra length needed to route up through the bottom cymbal to the jack on the top cymbal.Depends on where you locate the Hi Hat stand.
The top cymbal must not rest on the spring...
If it rests on the spring you lose some of the transition (open close) and features such as bark/chick/splash.
Set 1/2-5/8" between top/bottom cymbals and everything works.

I setup a Triple Zone 14" STRIKE Hi Hat (another post..another time) with the Crimson rack which are smaller..
I had room but access to the module was tight..12" Hi Hat and stand may work fine.
The additional weight of the 14" may also be why the Cymbal cannot rest on the spring for this module and takes it out of range
since the STRIKE Hi Hat is FSR.

I'll set it up with a 12" and see if it makes a difference..

EDIT #2:
Checked and it still requires the cymbal not rest on the spring or it will not splash/chick properly



EDIT #3:
Added MIDI Mapping

Alesis Crimson User Guide pg 9

Hi-Hat Open          46
Hi-Hat Closed        42
Hi-Hat pedal          44
Splash                  21


Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE HI HAT
MIDI Map - CONFIRMED
Hi-Hat Open            46
Hi-hat Edge Open    26
Hi-Hat Closed          42
Hi-hat Edge Closed  22
Hi-Hat pedal            44
Splash                    21

The Crimson II and DM10 MKII Studio MIDI Map WILL be different as the open-close is tied to one note..8..

EDIT #4:
Added Firmware Confirmation chart

MODULES/FIRMWARE

COMMAND                                       
YES
NO                                                                                                                           

CRIMSON 
YES            LDMB V 0.2.4
NO

CRIMSON II
YES
NO             LDMB V1.1.0

DM10 MKII Studio
YES
NO 

FORGE
YES
NO                                           


                       
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 09:29:25 AM by Chaser »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 09:49:56 AM »
I meant to chime in when you first made this topic, but I got side tracked.

Great detective work! It's nice to see an undocumented feature in these type of modules that expands the usability of the kit.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Chaser

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 05:59:04 PM »
I meant to chime in when you first made this topic, but I got side tracked.

Great detective work! It's nice to see an undocumented feature in these type of modules that expands the usability of the kit.

Thanks Hellfire !..It is appreciated.!
I actually expected a lot more responses (over 11,000 new members in 2020) with users of the other DD650 modules so I could add confirmed models to the title.
It wasn't that long ago where purchases were based off if a E-Drum kit had a Dual Zone Hi Hat and a single zone was considered a deal breaker.
I am sure Alesis would have sold a heck-uv-a lot more of these modules if advertised as Dual Zone Hi Hat.
Instead I see most of the DD650 Rebrands have been pulled except for Crimson II and Command.
I would have kept the original Crimson and dropped the rest including Crimson II (HH MIDI issue) and the Command (single zone Ride)
I didn't figure the Hi Hat out or the fact the STRIKE Hi Hat worked until after I sold off all the other modules after I compared them.
I still see posts looking for the Pro-X which was a POS and the 1st thing everyone did was throw the top cymbal away.
The ones that do show up for sale are demanding a higher price (originally $99)... The few I have seen for sale , sell for more than a STRIKE Hi Hat.

The Pro-X still has a product page and listed under Drum Accessories on the Alesis site,so I don't know whats up with that.
The STRIKE pro SE did away with the Hi Hat except for the controller so there are 12" dual zone cymbals and the HH bottoms floating around somewhere.The STRIKE Pro SE doesn't have a 12" cymbal at all.

I also expected someone to ask about the iODock II which the CC drivers are recognized in iOS 13 and up and the fact I was running Positive Grid X-Drummer which according to the developers doesn't support E-Drums or external MIDI Controllers...but it does.
It works great for layering.
X-Drummer is geared more Metal/Hard Rock so the HiHat is minimal , but you can play all the kits,change:attack/dampening/heads/pitch/volume on individual kit pieces similar to MODO drum..also use the AI and all the grooves etc.kit pieces are interchangeable and can be saved as User kits...

The articulations are combination/velocity type and also support a triple (3) zone ride.
Hi Hat is minimal..MIDI notes 22-46 are mostly variations of a closed Hi Hat , better for a double bass that don't use a pedal.
MIDI notes 65-70 open HH/...all are working with variable Hi Hat pedal..
I can't remember off the top of my head but if I remember correctly the choke function wouldn't work unless the module has an option for sending note off.I'll have to revisit and test a current version in latest iOS.There has been no changes as far as MIDI since released.
I still have it setup (in of all things) a DMDock kit..the DMDock CC drivers stopped working around iOS11.
I think you had/have a Simmons Kit with the iPad setup.

Since you are the only one to respond to this post...

X DRUMMER FAQ
Q: Can I connect my MIDI controller to my iPad and play the drums with it?
A: It does not support external MIDI controllers at the moment.

Q: Can I integrate my Roland electric drum kit to it?
A: It does not support external electric drums at the moment.

Q: What is the MIDI mapping?
A: Your project can be exported in MIDI (General MIDI) format directly and edit the mapping in any of your favorite DAW software.

Q: My drum track sounds good, how do I export it to audio or MIDI?
A: Yes, you can find the Export function in the Project menu. We provide audio (including wav/aif/m4a/mp3/flac) or MIDI (General Midi) format for your project.

POSITIVE GRID X DRUMMER

MIDI:set to X DRUMMER MAP..not GM (MIDI MAP intention originally for Export)

HI HAT
21 - SPLASH
22 - CLOSED (Edge Dual Zone HH)
26 - CLOSED (Edge Normally OPEN Dual Zone HH)
42 - CLOSED
44 - PEDAL
46 - CLOSED (normally OPEN)
65-70  OPEN SOUNDS.. Work with Variable Hi Hat pedal..a little round robin phasing

KICK
36 - HEAD

SNARE
37 - SIDE STICK
38 - HEAD
40 - RIM

TOM 1 (L)
48 - HEAD
50 - RIM (*Same as Head)

TOM 2 (R)
45 - HEAD
47 - RIM (*Same as Head)

TOM 3 (FL)
43 - HEAD
58 - RIM (*Same as Head)

CRASH 1 (L)
57

CRASH 2 (R)
49

RIDE
51 - BOW
52 (55) - EDGE
53 - BELL

I may have the Ride edge and bow switched...I get ear fatique after awhile so it's in the ears of the beholder...lol

*the articulations/combinations do not have a Rim Sound..sound the same as the Head

** the On Screen Kit will NOT show hits that are made using a MIDI controller**

There are deals from time to time usually around a Holiday..I picked up during a sale for 1/2 off and the IAP expansions were cheap..
APP STORE

A smart developer would take all the info and promote/FINISH the MIDI..I understand Positive grid is targeting Guitar players , but sales would go up 100X if people realize you can use external MIDI controller.

EDIT:
Fixed a Bad Link
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 06:44:26 PM by Chaser »

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2021, 03:58:09 AM »
I tried to find the “HH-EG” trigger setting but on my Crimson II module this is not visible. The Hi-Hat menu does have a (disabled) “Rim Sens” setting but fumbling with the Hi-Hat sensitivity did not enable that setting.

PS: There may be lots of users on the forum, but I guess most of them don’t frequently visit the forum. And even then... How many have athe Crimson (II) kit, so getting few responses doesn’t surprise me much.

Offline Hellfire

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2021, 08:31:53 AM »
Thanks Hellfire !..It is appreciated.!
I actually expected a lot more responses (over 11,000 new members in 2020) with users of the other DD650 modules so I could add confirmed models to the title.

That number is just the number of I.P. addresses that tried to sign up for an account. For some reason the last year and a half I've had problems with spammer hitting the site really hard. Most of those I.P.'s didn't get approved as members. The number is closer to about 600. The total member count of the forum is 7,829 Members. This is visible on the home page at the bottom, right above the "Latest Post" listing.

I put in some new blocking measures in the last quarter of 2020. It's working pretty good. The forum is averaging about 2-3 (actual) new members a day. If this rate of new member keeps up, the sight is looking at about 1000 new actual members this year.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Chaser

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2021, 02:34:11 PM »
I tried to find the “HH-EG” trigger setting but on my Crimson II module this is not visible. The Hi-Hat menu does have a (disabled) “Rim Sens” setting but fumbling with the Hi-Hat sensitivity did not enable that setting.

Did you have a dual zone cymbal connected to the HH input cable?
The Crimson II SE is a Guitar Center issue (as is the Command X and Nitro Mesh SE) in the US and retailers overseas.
You won't find any of them on the Alesis site.The Crimson II SE has the updated Mesh Heads/triggers that the STRIKE Pro SE has.
It came with 12" DMPads..the 12"labeled HiHat is only single zone..the 12" Crashes are dual zone,it's easy to mix them up.
You are basically turning off the Bow zone (HI HAT) by reducing the sensitivity to 1 so the other zone can activate.
The edge will only activate by striking the cymbal edge to change the zone on the screen.
Rim Sens is for the edge (Rim on Toms).."Hi Hat" is the bow..that is why the Rim Sens is disabled.
When HH-EG shows up on the screen the sensitivity will be disabled.. you adjust the Rim Sens when the menu shows.As I stated above it's "tricky".
If you accidentally hit the bow or another trigger before raising the Rim Sens the menu will change.
Once HH-EG is displayed you press down to the Rim Sens and increase it...."1" is essentially OFF.
Then go back to the Bow and raise the Sensitivity.HH-EG will not show up in the rotation on top.To change settings or voice you must be in that menu and strike the edge.

The COMMAND/CRIMSON/II/DM10 MKII Studio/FORGE are all based on the MEDELI DD650.
The harnesses are the same,firmware is different along with some kit pieces.
Years ago to upgrade modules with different model names was to upgrade the harness.
I suspect for the DD650 models if you connect the correct trigger you can enable it in the firmware.
Example would be if someone would check the Command Ride (single zone) by using a triple zone cymbal and applying the above..turn off the Bow and see if the bell and edge will activate.The same would apply to the crash cymbals.The Command Kit has all 10" cymbals.
All the DD650 modules have the same articulation/sample count.

Thanks Hellfire !..It is appreciated.!
I actually expected a lot more responses (over 11,000 new members in 2020) with users of the other DD650 modules so I could add confirmed models to the title.

That number is just the number of I.P. addresses that tried to sign up for an account. For some reason the last year and a half I've had problems with spammer hitting the site really hard. Most of those I.P.'s didn't get approved as members. The number is closer to about 600. The total member count of the forum is 7,829 Members. This is visible on the home page at the bottom, right above the "Latest Post" listing.

I put in some new blocking measures in the last quarter of 2020. It's working pretty good. The forum is averaging about 2-3 (actual) new members a day. If this rate of new member keeps up, the sight is looking at about 1000 new actual members this year.

I thought the higher membership may have been the result of COVID and the Alesis Get Satisfaction forum shutting down...I guess not..
That's a lot of spam bots...I have a few friends that have mentioned similar.
I also have noticed a lot of sites , even the larger retail have started using multiple layers Captcha/Re-Captcha/KeyCaptcha, Sliders etc
One of the best is the random puzzle slide.It will even confuse Puppeteer.


Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 06:03:37 AM »

Did you have a dual zone cymbal connected to the HH input cable?

I jist tried it once again. Swap the Hi-Hat cymbal with one of the crashes, fired up the module and go into trigger settings. Hit the cymbal - Hi-Hat shows. Reduce sensitivity from 8 to 1. Hit the edge, soft hard, whatever, doesn't matter - HH-Edge doesn't show.

Cheers.

Offline Chaser

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2021, 10:22:19 AM »

Did you have a dual zone cymbal connected to the HH input cable?

I jist tried it once again. Swap the Hi-Hat cymbal with one of the crashes, fired up the module and go into trigger settings. Hit the cymbal - Hi-Hat shows. Reduce sensitivity from 8 to 1. Hit the edge, soft hard, whatever, doesn't matter - HH-Edge doesn't show.

Cheers.

That's too bad...if you get a chance could you post the firmware version and I'll add it to the NO on the Module confirmation chart.
I had started a firmware version for all the Alesis modules in the Get Satisfaction forum as some of the models having the same name had different versions  and I didn't get the opportunity to save and transfer all the info to this site before Alesis shut it down.
After the Alesis Spash screen the Firmware version will briefly flash.

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2021, 06:07:39 AM »
if you get a chance could you post the firmware version and I'll add it to the NO on the Module confirmation chart.

It says “LDMB V1.1.0”

Where do you have this chart?


Offline Chaser

Re: Alesis Crimson DUAL ZONE Hi Hat
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2021, 09:34:01 AM »
if you get a chance could you post the firmware version and I'll add it to the NO on the Module confirmation chart.

It says “LDMB V1.1.0”

Where do you have this chart?

1st post in this Topic....The firmware chart I had for all the DD512-514 and DD650 modules was being compiled in the get Alesis Satisfaction Forum , which Alesis abruptly shut down without warning in 2020.