RealHat Pedal with Strike module - settings?

[DrJustice]

Hello fellow Alesis drummers! 

I've recently acquired a DM10X kit without the module and a DM10X Mesh kit with the DM10 module. I've also bought a Strike module for use with the DM10X Mesh kit. However, out of the box, the DM10 module works better than the Strike with the DM10X Mesh kit, as in being more playable with better default trigger setup for the DM10X Mesh pads.

The first hurdle was the hi-hat which now requires a TRS cable to work, while the DM10 loom only had a TS cable for the hi-hat. The "DMPad 12" Hi-Hat Cymbal" has a stereo jack socket, but it appears to only have a single piezo output. Thus I assume that the Strike kit's hi-hat has 2 zones. OK, I can live with that.

The second hurdle was the hi-hat pedal. I only have the "RealHat Pedal" that comes with the DM10 kits, not the Strike kit's more fancy variety that uses an actual hi hat stand and pedal. It gives me two problems:
1 - Wonky sensitivity, with only a couple of millimeter travel at the very bottom controlling the whole range from closed to open. I've tried all the curves (LOG is the way to go it seesm) and played with the offset, but I just can't get a good range of travel for the semi open sounds.
2 - No splash when quickly releasing the pedal. Tried all permutations of FOOT SENS, OFFSET and SPLASH...

1 and 2 could be due to the Strike kit's different sensor, but still, one would think it's the same thing, just in a different form factor(?).

I have searched around; found these threads that says that the RealHat Pedal should work with the Strike module, including making splashes:

New Alesis kits vs Original DM10
Replace the DM10 MKII PRO Module with STRIKE PERFORMANCE DRUM Module?
Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
How to improve the Strike Hi-hat controller?

Then there are at least some other members here who can't get it working or only part working:

Alesis DM 10 pedal with Strike Pro SE Kit and Module
STRIKE MODULE Triggering using External Module/TMI/Controller

Edit: And here is a YouTube video of the "just works" variety:
Alesis Strike Pro SE - DM Hat Demo

I've tried Alesis support for getting info about the circuitry/wiring for the various pads and pedals, but they will not disclose any such information. Trivial and useful stuff, but needlessly protected like state secrets... The Module documentation is also lacking IMO. From my experience, a support ticket trail about this will probably not  lead anywhere.

So, has anybody been able to make the Strike module hi-hat work OK with the "RealHat Pedal",  getting the splash to work, and getting a good controllable range for open/close? If so what are the relevant settings? My Strike module has firmware version 1.5 and I did a factory reset before trying it out.

I know this is an often asked question, but I only find "just works" or "doesn't work" reports so far. I really want it to work, and being at my wits end, I post here hoping for a solution.

Edit: OK - I've come a bit further. The first kit "Big Bird", using the "Big Bird HH Pedal" is impossible to get a splash out of, whereas some of the other hi hat pedal sounds are varying degrees from "almost impossible" to "possible but not when I actually play". That is, those that works require an extremely hard and fast stomp on the pedal - not something that can be done with any consistency. Also the SPLASH parameter that is said to "Higher values make it more difficult to ?splash,..." doesn't seem to have any effect at all. Oh well, a bit closer, but far off any cigar! My questions still stand :-)

Just for the hell of it I also measured the RealHat Pedal variable resistance to be 0 - 62 ohms.

Edit 2: OK - the sound is so worth it over the DM 10, unsurprisingly  - I just have to make the hi-hat work somehow!

TIA!

[DrJustice]

An update - talking to myself, but wth :-))

The FOOT SENS is troublesome in that lowering the sensitivity gives a more controllable range for open/closed, and increasing it is needed for max velocity on chicks and gives "easier" splashes (easier in quotes because they're not easy at all). I.e. the two functions (chick/splash vs open/closed) have conflicting sensitivity requirements. I've spent many hours on trying to tweak the trigger settings, but I'm not really getting anywhere. The hi-hat pedal just makes a mess of chicks, missed-chicks, missed splashes and unintentional splashes. It's unplayable in its current state and is pretty much ruining the Strike experience.

I have another RealHat Pedal coming my way, so I'll compare that with the one I have. No reason to think there's anything wrong with the one I have though, as it works fine with the DM10 module. I just did a sanity check and hooked it up there, and it works to perfection and is a joy to play. The DM10 module has a calibration routine for the pedal, with explicit open and closed points - much nicer than the Strike modules vague pedal settings. I hope I don't end up having to run the DM10 module just for the hi hat... :-o

If it's the same with the new RealHat pedal, I'd suspect there's something wrong with the hh control input on the Strike. I'll run it past Alesis support in that case, unless I find some solution in the next few days.

Oh, and don't try to get splashes on the "Big Bird HH Pedal" like I did, because there aren't any. I see the trigger coming through on MIDI at full velocity, but the module makes no splash sound; there simply aren't samples for it there.

[Hellfire]

An update - talking to myself, but wth :-))

The FOOT SENS is troublesome in that lowering the sensitivity gives a more controllable range for open/closed, and increasing it is needed for max velocity on chicks and gives "easier" splashes (easier in quotes because they're not easy at all). I.e. the two functions (chick/splash vs open/closed) have conflicting sensitivity requirements. I've spent many hours on trying to tweak the trigger settings, but I'm not really getting anywhere. The hi-hat pedal just makes a mess of chicks, missed-chicks, missed splashes and unintentional splashes. It's unplayable in its current state and is pretty much ruining the Strike experience.

I have another RealHat Pedal coming my way, so I'll compare that with the one I have. No reason to think there's anything wrong with the one I have though, as it works fine with the DM10 module. I just did a sanity check and hooked it up there, and it works to perfection and is a joy to play. The DM10 module has a calibration routine for the pedal, with explicit open and closed points - much nicer than the Strike modules vague pedal settings. I hope I don't end up having to run the DM10 module just for the hi hat... :-o

If it's the same with the new RealHat pedal, I'd suspect there's something wrong with the hh control input on the Strike. I'll run it past Alesis support in that case, unless I find some solution in the next few days.

Oh, and don't try to get splashes on the "Big Bird HH Pedal" like I did, because there aren't any. I see the trigger coming through on MIDI at full velocity, but the module makes no splash sound; there simply aren't samples for it there.

You are not talking to yourself.   There has been 27 view to this topic at the point of me writing this post. To be honest, not many people use the Alesis Strike with a pedal. Most use it with a hi-hat stand and the standard Strike hats. I wish I could help, but my edrum stuff is not easily accessible at this time. I do agree with you that the DM10 is much nicer in the way of settings than the Strike.

Do you have access to a Roland FD-7,or 8 hi-hat pedal? I only ask as I know the ohm value is a little different on the Roland pedal than the Alesis. Didn't know if that would make a difference for you. Just an idea.

On a side note have you tried running the DM10 into the Strike to see if the pedal works as you expect. I know it's not what you really want to do, but it would be interesting to see if it does work and it might be something you could tell Alesis (not that they would necessarily do something, but it would be interesting as well.)

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[DrJustice]

Thank you for the reply and the welcome! 

I see there is activity here - I'm just kidding about talking to myself, of course 

I don't have any other kinds of pedals to test with, but as mentioned I have another RealHat coming, and hopefully that will establish whether the issue is with the pedal or the module. In the mean time I'm using the DM10 for the hi-hat as an emergency solution.

Good idea running the DM10 via MIDI to the Strike. I'll try that. The Strike module has a stunted MIDI implementation though - dumbed down from the DM10 - hope it can be done.

...a bit later and I'm back. the MIDI mapping on the Strike is very strange. Setting e.g. the hi-hat bow instrument to a given MIDI channel and note, it will not respond to note-ons. Other sounds do respond though. It's also off by an octave compared to the DM10, and it's off by a semitone for some triggers - very strange, can't make head or tails of it (I've been dealing with MIDI since the 1980s, including in software development, so I've got a fair understanding of that). The more I dive into the Strike the more it seems compromised at FW v 1.5.

I did monitor the MIDI from the Strike, observing the pedal data, and it gives a range of CC values that starts in the 0x30's and goes to 0x7F,  but the mechanical movement to achieve this is less than 1 mm, whereas on the DM10 it's over 5mm and starts at a lower value and goes to 0x7F. Thus I suspect that this very narrow range is creating problems, possibly touching on achievable timing. On the DM10 the pedal takes ca, 5 times longer to "rebound" through the pedal range due to that difference in travel, which may cause issue with timing for the splash.

There was no way I could wait any longer to get some help on this (I just want to PLAY! ), so I have created a ticket with Alesis. I'll report back here when they have replied, when I've tried the new RealHat pedal, or if I otherwise make progress on this.

[DrJustice]

Well, Alesis doesn't give a hoot whether your Strike module works or not it seems...

I found that the Offset and Splash parameters have absolutely no effect at all. I have two RealHat pedals here now. Both work fine with the DM10, neither works with the Strike. That is pretty damning evidence that the Strike hh control input isn't working. It does trigger though, only at the very bottom of the pedal travel, and I have to stand on the pedal to keep the hat closed. This makes me suspect that the Offset parameter is some kind of analogue bias in the trigger input circuitry, like a comparator bias or something like that.

Therefore I wonder is anybody could confirm how much of the RealHat pedal travel is available to control the closing of the hat on the Strike, and at what settings of the pedal trigger parameters.  I measure the travel distance at the end of the pedal.

If others are getting the same 5mm travel for gradual open/closed control as the DM10 gives, then I'll open the Strike and attempt to trace the input circuit to see if anything can have failed there - hopefully it can be repaired.

Edit: Also if someone with an Ohm meter could measure the range of resistance of the Strike hi-hat controller, that would be good info to have when talking to Alesis.

(ref. https://www.alesisdrummer.com/index.php?topic=9056.0, where I'm asking the same thing of one of the users who have success with RealHat + Strike)