Author Topic: Bass drum on Alesis DM10 mkii Pro not triggering as much velocity as other drums  (Read 313 times)

The drummer in our band has an Alesis DM10 mkii Pro electronic drum kit which he bought new late last year. He's got 2 bass drum pedals/beaters on one bass drum head as he likes to do double bass drumming. We use the internal drum sounds on the Alesis module, but have also tried hooking the kit up to a computer and running drum VSTs such as Steven Slate Drums, EZ Drummer, etc.

We've noticed that the bass drum isn't outputting/triggering as much velocity as the other drums. When using the Alesis drum module, if you hit a drum pad the module displays bars on the screen to indicate how much gain/volume each pad is outputting, and the bass drum is less than the other drums. When we hook it up to a drum VST, whether playing with or without a DAW, the velocity of the bass drum is still lower than the other drums. In Cubase, for example, if we record a drum track with the Alesis and a drum VST, you can see that the MIDI data being recorded for the bass drum is lower than the rest of the drums (I'd say about 60%).

What could be causing this, and is there a way to fix it? Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 03:08:14 PM by nksoloproject »

Offline Chaser

The drummer in our band has an Alesis DM10 mkii Pro electronic drum kit which he bought new late last year. He's got 2 bass drum pedals/beaters on one bass drum head as he likes to do double bass drumming. We use the internal drum sounds on the Alesis module, but have also tried hooking the kit up to a computer and running drum VSTs such as Steven Slate Drums, EZ Drummer, etc.

We've noticed that the bass drum isn't outputting/triggering as much velocity as the other drums. When using the Alesis drum module, if you hit a drum pad the module displays bars on the screen to indicate how much gain/volume each pad is outputting, and the bass drum is less than the other drums. When we hook it up to a drum VST, whether playing with or without a DAW, the velocity of the bass drum is still lower than the other drums. In Cubase, for example, if we record a drum track with the Alesis and a drum VST, you can see that the MIDI data being recorded for the bass drum is lower than the rest of the drums (I'd say about 60%).

What could be causing this, and is there a way to fix it? Thanks.

The DM10 MKII Pro is based on the Medeli DD680
Have you adjusted the settings in the module...sensitivity/threshold or checked if 127 is being outputted by the module?..set the curve to "LOUD"(Constant-127) and notice if there is any difference..you should see it on the bar graph/velocity bars and hear a volume change.
You can also check the MIDI being output using a MIDI monitor (Drum software/Vst,MIDIOX etc)

As far as the Kick Trigger..
I presume it's the Factory Kick Tower?..
Beater Type: Felt?..Felt + Patch?..Plastic?..Plastic + Patch ..etc etc.
This design is the later version and has a Piezo assembly at the bottom...the entire assembly acts like a unit...head>foam>piezo>foam>tower are all attached together by glue/double sided tape.
This design the shell is part of the tower while Earlier models had a complete drum assembly attached to the tower/stand and the piezo was centered on a steel reflection plate assembly.
The later/current Kick design has had the "too quiet" even if you bury the pedal complaint since it was released.
Some users lower the beaters so they are closer to the piezo...some users have relocated the piezo higher.



If the module is outputting 127 when set to LOUD (which is the setting in the DM10 MKII Pro module for "Constant") then I would set the curve  to linear which for this module the setting is "Normal" .. and lower the threshold.It is set very high in the MKII Pro..at 28..32 is max value which requires an extremely hard kick while other Medeli modules (DD650..Command/Crimson/DM10 MKII Studio) that use this same kick setup with 32 max value in the module settings have the kick threshold set at 11..in comparison the STRIKE Kick threshold is 28..but the max is 127.

I think the default curve for the kick in the DM10 MKII Pro is set to Exp-1..which requires a hard kick for the dynamics/volume change..between those settings..high threshold and Exp curve it compounds the issue of being "too quiet" and not being able to get a maximum hit sounding even when the pedal is buried..which eventually destroys the kick trigger..

This module has the advantage of the velocity bar graph under TRIGGER so you can set the threshold to zero/0 and slowly raise it until the hit maxes out on the graph at the hardest kick.You may have also to adjust the sensitivity to balance it all out.

Curves
Normal : There is a linear change between playing dynamics and volume response.
Exp-1/2: Compared to normal (linear) harder hits required to make changes between playing dynamics and volume response.
Log-1/2: Compared to normal (linear) lighter hits makes greater change between playing dynamics and volume response.
Loud: Constant..full volume hit...
One thing to remember is the DM10 MKII Pro is the only Alesis module that can save/store multiple trigger settings so you can try different trigger setups without losing them or having to deal with software and transferring .syx files back and forth etc.

If none of those suggestions help..then it's time to physically inspect..condition of piezo..foam..wiring.. etc etc

Here is one that I removed the tension rods and the piezo setup on this kick tower disintegrated even carefully removing the mesh head from the column/foam rod which are attached using double sided tape and the main foam fell into 3 pieces... The foam used by Alesis is not high quality..




EDIT:
Added images


« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 01:38:06 AM by Chaser »

Many thanks for your detailed reply. I think you're right in that it's probably something to do with the 'trigger settings' on the Alesis module etc. We will play around with the settings and try your suggestions, hopefully we can fix the issue  :)

Offline Chaser

Many thanks for your detailed reply. I think you're right in that it's probably something to do with the 'trigger settings' on the Alesis module etc. We will play around with the settings and try your suggestions, hopefully we can fix the issue  :)

Your Welcome...the Default Threshold setting is way too high..32 pretty much shuts off any hits so it's only a few settings below....you may have to adjust sensitivity and since using a double kick probably Retrigger.
Also,most aren't aware or mention it but the DM10 MKII Pro has Bi-Directional USB Audio..so you can send/receive audio..for example you can send audio from Software/Vst to the module through USB and play it through the module outputs..I noticed for some software it autosets to 441..10ms..which is probably due to Class Compliant Drivers....other software/Vst..mainly those that have kept developing with  Windows Audio (it has had massive improvements since Win 10) work very well..XLN AD2..works great..3.0ms..
256 seems to be the sweetspot for some..it all depends if the developer kept up with Win Audio..some developers dropped it altogether since it was so bad years and years ago.BFD3 only supports ASIO.
If audio drops out,crackles or stops increase the buffer.
All control of the audio is controlled by the software/Vst..the only control you have in the module is volume.

EDIT:
Added images
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:13:15 PM by Chaser »

As an update to this thread, we managed to sort the issue with the bass drum trigger out by messing around with some of the trigger settings, which we're really pleased about!

Also,most aren't aware or mention it but the DM10 MKII Pro has Bi-Directional USB Audio..so you can send/receive audio..for example you can send audio from Software/Vst to the module through USB and play it through the module outputs.

This is really interesting. I did not know this. Normally I connect the Alesis to my Windows 10 laptop via usb cable and we run drum VSTs from the computer, (usually within a DAW such as Cubase or Ableton Live) and route the audio from the VST into my mixer (Zoom L-12). However, I'd love to know how to send audio from the drum VSTs to the Alesis module and route it through the outputs. How do we set that up? Does it do it automatically, or does it need to be set up on the computer or drum module? And do we need to be on MIDI channel 10 (which I believe is the standard channel for drums)?

As far as I can tell, even when I have the Alesis connected to the computer via USB, only the audio from the module goes out of the module's outputs. I have no idea how to send the audio from the VSTs through the module.

Offline Chaser

As an update to this thread, we managed to sort the issue with the bass drum trigger out by messing around with some of the trigger settings, which we're really pleased about!

Also,most aren't aware or mention it but the DM10 MKII Pro has Bi-Directional USB Audio..so you can send/receive audio..for example you can send audio from Software/Vst to the module through USB and play it through the module outputs.

This is really interesting. I did not know this. Normally I connect the Alesis to my Windows 10 laptop via usb cable and we run drum VSTs from the computer, (usually within a DAW such as Cubase or Ableton Live) and route the audio from the VST into my mixer (Zoom L-12). However, I'd love to know how to send audio from the drum VSTs to the Alesis module and route it through the outputs. How do we set that up? Does it do it automatically, or does it need to be set up on the computer or drum module? And do we need to be on MIDI channel 10 (which I believe is the standard channel for drums)?

As far as I can tell, even when I have the Alesis connected to the computer via USB, only the audio from the module goes out of the module's outputs. I have no idea how to send the audio from the VSTs through the module.

You configure the Audio device in the DAW/Vst/Software you are using.
I posted images above of different Vst/Software and settings..
Since the DM10 MKII Pro is Class Compliant there is no ASIO...in order to use ASIO for Vst/Software that require it ..you can  use ASIO4ALL and configure it for the DM10 MKII Pro , you would then select ASIO4ALL in the Audio device setup.Example:BFD3

As far as the MIDI Channel..that is for sending /receive MIDI and is a FIXED Global Channel..10.
You cannot change it in the DM10 MKII Pro.You can change MIDI note assignments for the voices.
The DM10 MKII Pro also has the ability to send/receive Program Changes..tho I haven't spent any time on it.
I have the Full MIDI Implementation for this module , but due to the public lack of interest for this module (Released 2017) I never got around to programming an editor or a Live Touch Screen interface for iOS ..etc.

EDIT:
Added images



« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 01:12:25 AM by Chaser »