Author Topic: Strike variance in sound from playing live and playing back a sample live.  (Read 4745 times)

Offline Purpledc

So I have been really delving deep into what the strike can do but there is one thing that is driving me pretty bonkers and im hoping someone with real knowledge of how modules and processing sound works can explain the following.

So lets say I want to record a loop of me playing a certain beat.   While playing live the sound is very natural.  The kick doesn't sound processed or like a "recording".     But when I record my playing with the internal sampler and play it back through the same PA or Drum amp the sound is vastly different.

The best way I can describe it is when recording a sample of the kit and playing it back it sounds like a processed sound almost like what a roland kits sounds like in the room.  Very tight and pristine with a lot of definition and clarity.   But live its almost like the drums are muffled like there is a blanket on the attack making it sound smooth and natural live.   Why is this?   

Is there some kind of internal processing going on that changes the overall dynamic of the sounds?   Because I actually really love the way the sampled sound is and wish there was a way to choose to have it sound like that when actually playing.   

Offline Iggford

So I have been really delving deep into what the strike can do but there is one thing that is driving me pretty bonkers and im hoping someone with real knowledge of how modules and processing sound works can explain the following.

So lets say I want to record a loop of me playing a certain beat.   While playing live the sound is very natural.  The kick doesn't sound processed or like a "recording".     But when I record my playing with the internal sampler and play it back through the same PA or Drum amp the sound is vastly different.

The best way I can describe it is when recording a sample of the kit and playing it back it sounds like a processed sound almost like what a roland kits sounds like in the room.  Very tight and pristine with a lot of definition and clarity.   But live its almost like the drums are muffled like there is a blanket on the attack making it sound smooth and natural live.   Why is this?   

Is there some kind of internal processing going on that changes the overall dynamic of the sounds?   Because I actually really love the way the sampled sound is and wish there was a way to choose to have it sound like that when actually playing.   


This is EXACTLY the issue I'm trying to figure out at the moment.  I love the way my kit sounds live.  I noticed on the gig recordings we did last month, it sounded stripped down.  Especially the toms.  They tend to sound very processed, and a lot quieter.  I tend to like them to ring out a bit more than they are.  Live, they have a real presence, especially the two floor toms.  They have shaken a room before.  :)

I went through the compression tutorial video and amplified everything a bit, but it didn't change the sound, just made it louder.

I changed some layering that I had, again mostly on the toms.  We have a show tonight, and I'll go back and take a listen to the recording in a day or so to see if it helped any. 

If I can pinpoint anything that seems to help or provide any good insight into what's going on, I'll share it here. 


--
Shawn

Offline Purpledc

So I have been really delving deep into what the strike can do but there is one thing that is driving me pretty bonkers and im hoping someone with real knowledge of how modules and processing sound works can explain the following.

So lets say I want to record a loop of me playing a certain beat.   While playing live the sound is very natural.  The kick doesn't sound processed or like a "recording".     But when I record my playing with the internal sampler and play it back through the same PA or Drum amp the sound is vastly different.

The best way I can describe it is when recording a sample of the kit and playing it back it sounds like a processed sound almost like what a roland kits sounds like in the room.  Very tight and pristine with a lot of definition and clarity.   But live its almost like the drums are muffled like there is a blanket on the attack making it sound smooth and natural live.   Why is this?   

Is there some kind of internal processing going on that changes the overall dynamic of the sounds?   Because I actually really love the way the sampled sound is and wish there was a way to choose to have it sound like that when actually playing.   


This is EXACTLY the issue I'm trying to figure out at the moment.  I love the way my kit sounds live.  I noticed on the gig recordings we did last month, it sounded stripped down.  Especially the toms.  They tend to sound very processed, and a lot quieter.  I tend to like them to ring out a bit more than they are.  Live, they have a real presence, especially the two floor toms.  They have shaken a room before.  :)

I went through the compression tutorial video and amplified everything a bit, but it didn't change the sound, just made it louder.

I changed some layering that I had, again mostly on the toms.  We have a show tonight, and I'll go back and take a listen to the recording in a day or so to see if it helped any. 

If I can pinpoint anything that seems to help or provide any good insight into what's going on, I'll share it here. 


--
Shawn

if you want your toms to ring out a more and have more rumble go into your voice menu and hit F3 for Velocity.   Then for each tom increase the decay.   This decay is separate and different in effect from your overall decay.  The velocity decay relates more to the initial strike of the drum.  But by increasing the decay of the strike it seems to have a very large impact on the overall sound as well.  Give it a try.   Also increasing the velocity pitch is also independent from the overall tuning.   And then velocity filter has a different effect depending on the intstrument.  I find it adds punch and definition to toms and kicks but can make snares either sound fat or thin almost like it has no shell at all.   Play around with that.  All of those things play off each other and can have a dramatic effect on your overall sound.

As for the compression.  That does have an effect but I find you really need to crank it up.  Like im using a modified 033 rocker man kit with imported kick drums from drumwerks and to really notice it and get some pop I have to use about -25db of compression and then I boost it 10-11db.  This allows me to keep my faders in the center position and have freedom to micro adjust each instrument on the fly.  I prefer the master1 setting.  Rok 1 isn't bad either but even the dance and country ones have a neat effect.   Its subtle though.  And I think you will be much more happy fiddling with velocity.


My issue is rather different and it has to do with the on board sampler for recording your own playing.   You can record yourself with that and play it back over the same PA you are playing through at that moment.  And my problem is that the internal sampler colors the sound of the drumset dramatically.  Instead of it sounding like a live in the room drum set like it does while you are playing it comes out of the speakers almost sounding processed and album ready.   The kick drum sound punchy and has smack where as when playing through a PA kicks can sound washed out and muffled.  But not in a bad way.  But  more sounding like a live sound of a real drum set.   Either way the sampler is adding some type of coloring to the sound and its sounds really good.   If you get a chance record a sample of you playing by setting the sampler to internal.  Then play it back over the pa you are playing through.  You will notice how much more defined and album like the sound is coming over the speakers.   I wouldn't want it all the time but it would be really cool to have that as an option to switch to.   An overall parameter to switch the sound of a particular kit from a "processed" sound to a "live" sound.

Offline Purpledc

Issue is resolved. Turns out my module was having issues.  Replacement unit is on point.   

Offline Iggford

Issue is resolved. Turns out my module was having issues.  Replacement unit is on point.


After reading your description again, I realize they were two different issues!  :)

I was able to make my kit sound quite a bit better on our last gig recording, so thanks for the pointers this and every other time!

I need to try recording the way you described and see if mine acts funny, too, then.  I think I'm already going to have to contact Alesis about my cymbals, so I might as well test out any other possible problem points and get it all taken care of at once.


--
Shawn

Offline Purpledc

Issue is resolved. Turns out my module was having issues.  Replacement unit is on point.


After reading your description again, I realize they were two different issues!  :)

I was able to make my kit sound quite a bit better on our last gig recording, so thanks for the pointers this and every other time!

I need to try recording the way you described and see if mine acts funny, too, then.  I think I'm already going to have to contact Alesis about my cymbals, so I might as well test out any other possible problem points and get it all taken care of at once.


--
Shawn

if there is a huge difference between your headphone sound and your live sound you may have an old module like mine was.  I have no idea if age or just certain modules had the issue.  But those others also had very low volume through the headphones.  Something always seemed off about my sounds and I couldn't quite place it.  Now this new module sounds amazing no matter what.  One difference I note is that when starting up my old module used to show the alesis logo along with the firmware edition.   This new one goes straight to the kit.  And electronic kits load almost instantly.

Offline Iggford

if there is a huge difference between your headphone sound and your live sound you may have an old module like mine was.  I have no idea if age or just certain modules had the issue.  But those others also had very low volume through the headphones.  Something always seemed off about my sounds and I couldn't quite place it.  Now this new module sounds amazing no matter what.  One difference I note is that when starting up my old module used to show the alesis logo along with the firmware edition.   This new one goes straight to the kit.  And electronic kits load almost instantly.


I have a Goedrum controller scheduled to arrive tomorrow, so I'll be spending some quality time with the kit over the weekend.  I'm going to test the recording then and see what happens.

From where I sit during a gig, my live sound is really good.  The recorded sound from our soundboard is what sounds a little flat.  It could be a difference in effects going from the mixer and the FOH and from the mixer to Reaper, what we use to record a gig. 

My headphone sound hasn't seemed unusually low, but I do get a strange buzzing sound at lower volumes coming out.  Once I crank the volume a bit, it starts to go away.  I only use the headphone out port for monitoring during a show and playing with my headset at home. 

If I recall correctly, mine does show the logo and firmware edition at startup.  I usually immediately change to a user kit after the kit screen shows up.

Do you think it would be in my best interest to contact Alesis about my module on the buzzing alone?  It doesn't really get in my way, but I don't want to be sitting on a potential issue and not do anything about it.  Do they send replacements out before you send in a defective unit?


--
Shawn

Offline Purpledc

so are you sending direct outs to front of house?   If so that could be cause of your issue.  From what I understand any effects you apply to your sound wont be applied to the direct outs.  The theory being that most people want to send the cleanest most uncolored signal to the board and sometimes effects have a negative impact.

Offline Iggford

so are you sending direct outs to front of house?   If so that could be cause of your issue.  From what I understand any effects you apply to your sound wont be applied to the direct outs.  The theory being that most people want to send the cleanest most uncolored signal to the board and sometimes effects have a negative impact.


I'm sending my main outs to the mixer, which goes to the FOH and then via USB to our DAW laptop.  The FOH sounds really good, the sound I'm looking for, in fact.  It's just what the DAW picks up that sounds kinda flat.  If it's playing tricks with effects from the module, I may just have to go in when I mix down our audio and tweak some of the effects on the drum track.  I already have to bump up the low end of the EQ.  It will shake a room live, but doesn't have the same presence on the recording. 

I tried recording using the sampler yesterday finally.  How big was the difference between the live sound and the sampler recording on your module?  I played mine back, and there was a noticeable difference, but it wasn't drastic.  I picked it up right away, but I had my wife take a listen, and I had to point it out to her.  She heard it slightly after that.  I tested it through my amp and through headphones.

I'm going to perform another exercise with it at our rehearsal on Thursday.  I'm going to have the rest of the band take a listen and see what they hear.  I'm also curious to hear if there's as noticeable difference on our big PA.  I just want to make sure that, if my module is not performing as it should, I can catch it and get it resolved while I'm still under warranty. 


--
Shawn

Offline Dartanbeck

It's this clean signal from direct outs that has me ready to buy a Strike module.

I've always had issues with my sound people regarding my DM10. I'd spend hours and hours honing the perfect sound via headphones only to have it completely change in the PA.

This way, I can set my sound how I want (Main/Phones Out) and they can have the clean, uneffected signal, which should be the cat's meow!

It's also pretty hard to find anything with individual direct outs these days. They're out there, but not as plentiful.

So right now I'm in discussions with my sound team as whether to go Strike module or Addictive Drums.

I prefer the idea of Strike, but they're insisting that I keep an open mind.
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Chaser

It's this clean signal from direct outs that has me ready to buy a Strike module.

I've always had issues with my sound people regarding my DM10. I'd spend hours and hours honing the perfect sound via headphones only to have it completely change in the PA.

This way, I can set my sound how I want (Main/Phones Out) and they can have the clean, uneffected signal, which should be the cat's meow!

It's also pretty hard to find anything with individual direct outs these days. They're out there, but not as plentiful.

The Direct Outs are not for each Individual Kit Piece..so keep that in mind..

"The independent audio signals of these triggers will be sent out of these outputs: kick, snare, hi-hat, ride, the left and right channels for all toms, and the left and right channels for the crash cymbals.The signal sent from these outputs is fixed and without any effects applied."

Toms are grouped..Crash Cymbals are grouped..it doesn't appear to be mono summed and there seems to be a different response depending on whether or not it's a mono sample..stereo sample..or a Trigger using both A+B layers..


Quote
So right now I'm in discussions with my sound team as whether to go Strike module or Addictive Drums.

I prefer the idea of Strike, but they're insisting that I keep an open mind.

A) STRIKE Module
B) Addictive Drums

or
 
C)ompromise... STRIKE Module and import Addictive Drums using the SDSE Software..then you don't need to rely or worry about a computer onstage..

Addictive Drums was designed for Touch Screen support/use while most of the other Vst/Software were not..it uses very little resources compared to others and runs well on small Windows Tablets  and you can put the entire collection of AD2 Expansions on a very small SD Card or USB ..I actually keep a 16GB SD Card in my wallet which contains the Standalone and every expansion..along with 3-4 GB Free space.(never know who I'll run into)
I have a few TriggerIO/s with 8" Windows Tablets Velcroed (TriggerIO is USB Powered) for years..some buttons are tiny to hit but it works well for the mixer if you already have everything pre-mixed etc and only require changing kits and the fader's.I also have imbedded (IoT) on 12"+ Tablets,fast startup and you can access all the features
I have been waiting for XLN to port to iOS but that still hasn't happened..with the M1 and macOS/iPadOS now being compatible maybe it will happen sooner than later.
XLN hasn't done too much in recent years.

EDIT:
Added links
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 10:25:46 PM by Chaser »

Offline Dartanbeck

I always cherish your detailed and intelligent responses, Chaser!

It appears that Trigger IO is no longer available (new).

What do you think about the idea of using my DM10 module sent to a small laptop with Addictive Drums 2 installed?

If I went that route, I'd grab a Scarlett 2i2 to send from the laptop to the board(?) is that right?


One of the things that really drove me toward wanting the Strike module (aside from the obvious awesome tools, etc.,) is that the firmware updates really seemed to increase playability via better trigger response, etc.,

After I run my DM 10 into the PA, my sound guy makes it sound really great - but could make it much better if I could split the outputs better.

Right now I'm using my acoustic snare and cymbals, and running my DM10 kick.

It was sounding really great when I ran all other e-drums using the Sample Pad Pro, but last practice the output seems to have given up on the Sample Pad, so I'm back to midi-ing it out to the DM10.

I love the sounds of the DM10, so another possibility I've been toying with is to grab a Pearl R.E.D. box so that I can have complete individuality for the kick (using its own module).

Man, when I had the Sample Pad working and the kick being the only thing coming out of the DM10, it thundered so good!!!

=========================================================

As for the Direct outs of the Strike, I was actually hoping that the cymbals were grouped, as with the toms.
I actually wished that they were completely grouped instead of having separate L/R

I'm imagining that this means:

a) The distinction between what comes out of which Direct Out belongs (hard-coded) to the instrument selection, not the pad being struck.  Does that sound right?

b) Cymbals include other types of instrument, like chimes, triangles, vibra-slap, etc.,

c) Toms include other types of instrument, like timpani, congas, etc.,

If the above are correct, I should be good - with possible exception to the other stuff you said about there being differences in how certain set-ups sound through the outs. I'm actually pleased that they bypass all effects, and just let my sound engineer do that.

I've tried the R/L Main and Aux Out trick on my DM10 and couldn't seem to get full separation, which again is what makes me seek out this Strike module.

I wish I could afford the whole Pro SE kit and have those killer new heads at my disposal. That would allow me to get fully electric again. I played one that wasn't plugged in at Guitar Center and instantly fell in love with those heads!

Thanks for all advice given, and thanks in advance for any you might give!

-Dartanbeck
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

The first option I was going for was to grab a Strike Multipad, but I fear that I would again suffer from not being able to individualize my kick. But I suppose I could still use the DM10 module for that.

Edit: Do you think I could run the Sample Pad Pro midi out into the Strike Multipad?

I think that, for what I'm doing right now, I'd likely prefer the Strike module over the multipad - but I'm still mulling it all over.

Big decision when one has so very little cash! LOL


My sound engineer really thinks that I would love Addictive Drums 2/ Laptop/ Scarlett

I've never worked this way and am fearful that something might go wrong at a time when he isn't there to mix for us (smaller venue gigs, for example)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 02:40:18 AM by Dartanbeck »
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Chaser

I always cherish your detailed and intelligent responses, Chaser!

It appears that Trigger IO is no longer available (new).

Discontinued as Alesis product...Licensed to ddrum as the DDTI and I no longer see it on the ddrum site except for the manual so licensing may have ended.This is a very old TMI (2005 'ish).Money is better spent(unless you find cheap) towards something current and with plenty of support..editor etc..look into the eDRUMin (4 input and 10 input models) and all the triggering capabilities.You are not stuck with dedicated inputs for cymbals toms etc.
ddrum also has a new percussion pad for 2022..NIO Percussion Pad (pg 17) but it looks like a knock off of the avatar PD705 Percussion Pad.
So there's a company rebranding/Licensing them..

Quote
What do you think about the idea of using my DM10 module sent to a small laptop with Addictive Drums 2 installed?
If I went that route, I'd grab a Scarlett 2i2 to send from the laptop to the board(?) is that right?

That's probably the popular setup..AlanK has been using similar setup for years.
The issue over the years is Laptop have/had crappy soundcards and limited resources (small cpu..4GB Ram etc) ASIO4ALL (XP Era) was the fix as Windows Audio was terrible.I don't think very many realize the Windows Audio 2 came out and fixed a number of issues.You'll see many forums where even trying WA2 isn't considered an option and instead purchase $1,000 sound cards/massive CPU's and amounts of RAM.The other problem is developers didn't code their software for Windows Audio.
XLN Audio did..one of the few.. and using Windows Audio 2 instead of ASIO you can get extremely low latency..examples/screenshots attached..I can get down 1.3ms (YMMV) on a decent (quad core/8GB RAM) Tablet or small AMD iTX with 16GB RAM and the audio is shared instead of ASIO which is app exclusive.

Quote
One of the things that really drove me toward wanting the Strike module (aside from the obvious awesome tools, etc.,) is that the firmware updates really seemed to increase playability via better trigger response, etc.,

Unknown what is going on with the STRIKE ..it hasn't been updated since Nov 2019 when the SE Kit came out.Then days after NAMM 2020 O?Donnell appointed someone from Guitar Center as President of In Music and there was a mass exodus..de-ja-vu..
This happened before when Numark(O?Donnell) acquired Alesis and at the time..DM10 2.0 ( Lic to Pearl RedBox)..DMDock (released unfinished) and some products were never released like the AMPDock.InMusic has been going around buying up companies/developers which it seems is the trend over the past few years..InMusic History .

Quote
I love the sounds of the DM10, so another possibility I've been toying with is to grab a Pearl R.E.D. box so that I can have complete individuality for the kick (using its own module).

The Pearl RedBOX is the DM10 2.0 and you could load new kits etc..however all the licensing has expired and the Soundshop is now closed ,There is no support except for what is on this forum.I posted all I had for it including v2.0 and the updater/application here.I had a RedBOX and all the expansions but after I sold it I realized the expansions were now worthless as they are tied to the SN of the module I sold (they didn't want to pay extra for the Soundsets)..No one has ever done a sound comparison between the DM10 and RedBOX and I can't recall anyone stating the RedBOX Factory sounds were so much better than the DM10 Factory Sounds.I also don't know it someone purchases/finds one with an expansion/Soundset installed...uninstalls and re-installs the Factory Soundset if they can re-install any of the expansion/Soundsets.
The expansions/soundsets were usually just one kit while the Factory Soundset had multiple like the DM10..  so unless you find with an expansion/Soundset already installed it's probably no different than a DM10 other than the RedBox is always listed for a higher price.

Quote
As for the Direct outs of the Strike, I was actually hoping that the cymbals were grouped, as with the toms.
I actually wished that they were completely grouped instead of having separate L/R

I'm imagining that this means:

a) The distinction between what comes out of which Direct Out belongs (hard-coded) to the instrument selection, not the pad being struck.  Does that sound right?

b) Cymbals include other types of instrument, like chimes, triangles, vibra-slap, etc.,

c) Toms include other types of instrument, like timpani, congas, etc.,

If the above are correct, I should be good - with possible exception to the other stuff you said about there being differences in how certain set-ups sound through the outs. I'm actually pleased that they bypass all effects, and just let my sound engineer do that.

The Direct Outs are connected to the Trigger Inputs..doesn't matter what Instrument is assigned.

Quote
The first option I was going for was to grab a Strike Multipad, but I fear that I would again suffer from not being able to individualize my kick. But I suppose I could still use the DM10 module for that.

Edit: Do you think I could run the Sample Pad Pro midi out into the Strike Multipad?

I think that, for what I'm doing right now, I'd likely prefer the Strike module over the multipad - but I'm still mulling it all over.

The STRIKE Multipad is also an audio interface and has USB Bi-Directional Audio...you can also assign instruments to triggers without having any physically connected (PAD CUE)..pg28..up to 20 zones (including the 9 pads) and control those by MIDI.
I have set it up as a Hub..you can send the main audio/MIDI from the STRIKE/any module etc (and anything MIDI in to the STRIKE/any module etc) and also connect/trigger everything from an iPad or Tablet and have the audio return through USB then out from the Multipad to FOH/Mixer etc..the advantage to this is minimal cables without the additional interface/cables so a clean simple setup 

Quote
Big decision when one has so very little cash! LOL

Understand completely..the best thing to do is figure out what setup benefits you the most and not what everyone tells you "you need".I can't tell you how many I know spent too much on too little and couldn't use everything (unnecessary features etc)..or sometimes not help at all..just because they got talked into it by a rep/salesman.

Quote
My sound engineer really thinks that I would love Addictive Drums 2/ Laptop/ Scarlett

I've never worked this way and am fearful that something might go wrong at a time when he isn't there to mix for us (smaller venue gigs, for example)

This is the fear for many performers..what happens if the computer crashes on stage..
Since the release of the Apple M1 there are a lot more starting to use performing software..
I know many who use a computer with VST hosts/performing software..GIG PERFORMER (Win/MacOS) , Cantabile (Win) or MainStage (macOS).Cantabile has been working on macOS version for years but currently not available.
I use GIG PERFORMER..but a different version which is the Deskew UnLocked version provided by Plugin Alliance.The standard version you are only permitted to use specific Vst..the Unlocked any Vst

Check the GIG PERFORMER, Cantabile,MainStage Forums for setups, experiences etc.EDIT:Added links and images
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 01:36:33 PM by Chaser »

Offline Dartanbeck

Wow.
Very cool, and Thanks! Again!!!

The last time I dealt with InMusic (less than two years ago?), they were still great to me - got the parts that I needed at superb pricing/service.

Okay, the ball is now rolling.
I'm meeting my Sound Engineer at the studio stage tomorrow after work, where he promises to Wow me with AD2 possibilities that he has already tested using my DM10 module.

As for latency, am I correct in assuming that a Scarlett 4i4 would alleviate my laptop from a lot of the sound power requirements?

The scary thing (after reading your last post) is that I only have a small AMD quad core with 4GB RAM.

He seems to think that AD2 won't have any issues with it. Maybe I can find enough $$$ to bring it up to 16. We'll see how much I can scrape together.


I hear you about "listening to others". I can't believe how many people tell me what my DM10 is capable of without even realizing how wrong they are in what they're saying.

I must say, I'm a Lot more pleased with this little module than I had ever dreamt I'd be.

If I ever did get a Pearl RED Box, I'd be fine with the built in sounds if they were the same.

But from what my Sound Engineer claims (and he's really cool, very experienced, etc.,) I'm about to be introduced to my new way of e-drumming. I hope he's right.

Yeah, I love talking to Alan K and reading of his exploits - much like I enjoy reading yours.

Perhaps after all of this is settled, my next addition will be the incredible Strike Multipad - or whatever they come out with next! :)


Thanks Again, Chaser!
And to the original poster - I apologize for the temporary hijack of this thread!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Chaser


As for latency, am I correct in assuming that a Scarlett 4i4 would alleviate my laptop from a lot of the sound power requirements?

Yes the Audio Interface takes the stress off system resources.

Quote
The scary thing (after reading your last post) is that I only have a small AMD quad core with 4GB RAM.

He seems to think that AD2 won't have any issues with it. Maybe I can find enough $$$ to bring it up to 16. We'll see how much I can scrape together.

I posted the specs on the machines I was using Windows Audio on.
XLN went to 64 bit only so check your laptop.
64 bit and 4GB RAM is pushing it as thats almost the bare minimum for 64 bit Win OS.
You won't be able to run programs like Superior Drummer 3 and some others as the minimum for a lot of software has bumped up to 8GB RAM.

Addictive Drums System Requirements


Mac
    macOS 10.9 or later (M1 Native & macOS 12 Monterey supported) (64-bit only)
    2 GB RAM (4 GB recommended)
    Internet connection (during installation only)

Formats:
    VST, AU, AAX (64-bit only)
    Standalone Application (64-bit only)

Windows
    Windows 7, 8, 10 (64-bit only)
    2 GB RAM (4 GB recommended)
    Internet connection (during installation only)

Formats:
    VST, AAX (64-bit only)
    Standalone Application (64-bit only)

Windows Audio Improvements..

some examples
Windows 10 has been enhanced in three areas to reduce latency:
All applications that use audio will see a 4.5-16ms reduction in round-trip latency (as was explained in the section above) without any code changes or driver updates, compared to Windows 8.1.
a. Applications that use floating point data will have 16ms lower latency.
b. Applications that use integer data will have 4.5ms lower latency..

Before Windows 10, the latency of the Audio Engine was equal to ~12ms for applications that use floating point data and ~6ms for applications that use integer data

In Windows 10, the latency has been reduced to 1.3ms for all applications..

The Audio Engine writes the processed data to a buffer.Before Windows 10, this buffer was always set to ~10ms.

Starting with Windows 10, the buffer size is defined by the audio driver.

Quote
from what my Sound Engineer claims (and he's really cool, very experienced, etc.,) I'm about to be introduced to my new way of e-drumming. I hope he's right.

Addictive drums cuts through the mix..better than most (IMO).
I have made many presets including quite a few that stack (link) additional instruments.
I would post some but it depends on which expansions you have as a number of my presets require multiple expansions..

AD2 Manual

Offline Dartanbeck

Awesome!

We mapped out my Sample Pad Pro and DM10 and ran AD2 into Reaper, then straight from Reaper into X-Air.

There not only wasn't a latency problem (which we proved by recording - I used Acoustic Snare), but the trigger response was an amazing night and day improvement from what I've grown accustomed to using DM10's main outs!

I wasn't overly fond of the instruments he assigned, but they did sound Great! But tonight wasn't about setting up the perfect kit, but just to see if this avenue would be something my band and I would like to use live.

I asked if I could just run this same setup through our usual live rig and he replied that we were using our usual live setup... so...!!!


The big question will be whether my 64 bit Win 10 laptop will run it.

I have confirmed that going this route would leave enough $$$ left over to upgrade my RAM to 16GB and possibly even replace the C drive with an internal SSD.

I will, of course, have to start squirreling away for a new laptop.


Next time we meet, under my request, we're going to setup using only e-drums.

I was so immersed by the more real sensitivity and feel that I'm fairly convinced that it'll totally rock! Wow. None of that missed trigger syndrome, the kick felt alive and spot-on to everything I played - including some of my old-time soloing that I couldn't do with my DM10 previously.

And we were only scratching the surface. Around two hours of just setting things up in AD2 and Reaper - listening through both in-ear monitors as well as the full PA (my singer owns Piranha North Studio, which was originally set up for streaming live concerts during COVID-19 lockdown. An old ship-building facility decked out with tens of thousands of dollars for studio conversion - it's Awesome!)

He only had a limited number of his Adpacks available - and they weren't the ones I plan to grab when I get AD2, so I'm really eager to hear and see more. Wow. Let's see if I can keep adding years of solid, hard-hitting years to this amazing little kit - my DM10X Mesh!


Oh, and another thing. My snare drum (acoustic) is Really Loud, which is why I'd like to go back to full-on e-drums. The quiet stage volume makes in-ear gigging so much more enjoyable.

But when I was playing the hybrid, as loud as my snare and cymbals are, AD2 (like you said above) cut straight through and sounded like I was just playing an acoustic kit with a better mic/mix setup than I've even experienced. Boom, thundered the toms and bass, while the cowbell and China (AD2) also sliced through, matching beautifully with my acoustic Sabians!


So in our next test with the full e-kit, we're going to record my playing using midi in Reaper, and use that to assign and edit the various instruments. Again, this will all change after I get my own Adpacks - unless he brings along those that I intend to start with.

Tonight we recorded both in midi and WAV. Even though we didn't tweak the instruments much at all, it sounded wonderful - again, no latency that was noticeable to any of us.
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline AlanK

Hey guys! Glad to see you back here, Dartanbeck! And wow, I got a mention in this thread what an honour! :-)

Ya, just thought I'd jump in as I missed most of this discussion til now.. as Chaser said, I've been using AD2 seems like a decade now. I have a Tascam audio interface and I think the best it can do is about 64ms (?) and I do notice the lag at times. I will have to check out the new Windows Audio drivers (Chaser, I'll check out the link on low lateny audio you included, but is there a direct /easy to find place to update the Win Audio? I found a million results doing a search and they're mostly old updates and info on USB and other crap).

I totally run AD2 with my DM10 and it's so much more real, punchy and just all out cool esp now that I hung a tv on a swivel mount so I can have it out front and just adds to the thrill of playing. When I put it through my mixer to the PA in my little basement jam room it can peel the wallpaper, and with my monitoring headphones I feel like I'm playing in an arena (or a small room, depending on the kit / room settings). I can't go back to the module alone.

I've got an i5 with 16 gig of RAM and a Tb SSD. I wouldn't go any less than that. Seems to work without crashing, and I can play a few hours straight (well, some breaktime but the system is still running). I've had blue screen a couple times in the early years, I think that was when I used it with my laptop which is pretty old but did the job most of the time. I also drop AD2 as a plugin into Ableton Live 11 once in a while and it doesn't seem to have any issues. I know I'd be scared to play live with all these electronics but I suppose if we were all rich we'd have a spare laptop mirrored with the same setups ready to swap in but you'd have to be fast not to miss more than a bar or so of the song you're in.. yikes.

There's definitely a difference in what you hear wearing phones as opposed to through speakers.. it does suck when you set up your sound wearing your headphones and then play through speakers and wonder why it sounds so different.. I had that when I used to jam at a buddy's place where we put together another DM10 setup.. I'd bring my laptop with AD2, the module was configured identically to mine at home, but the single PA speaker I plugged into was just a weird beast and my kits always sounded awful when we started jamming. One time I brought my pair of mini Samson speakers and it was better but still different than my place.. very frustrating so I hope you can get the sound you're looking for.

I have a few videos of some crappy covers or messing around I've done with AD kits that I could share if you like, or record some stuff this week. I've bought almost all the AD2 adpacks... unfortunately when I do record myself I rarely take note of what kit or sounds I was using.. but sometimes the screen is in the shot so I can tell what kit pack I was on.. I should do a vid with a few different voicings and then say or put text in my upload to point out what I'm using in the recording.. if that would help but of course, there are a lot of samples on the XLN website to hear the kits too.

Good luck bro!

Photo included of my setup.. tricked out DM10X and my KISS apparel hahaha
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Dartanbeck

I just sent for an upgrade to 16GB RAM, so in a week I'll see how well that works.

Should be able to grab an internal SSD when I order the rest (AD2, etc.,)

When we were testing DM10 to AD2, we:

A - set it up in a way where, if something should go wrong, we can run directly from the DM10 as I always have - as a failsafe.

B - discovered that we can play back a beat in midi (like the "Beats" in AD2, except that we used a midi recording of me playing) and then tweak the sounds from there, listening through the full PA at live performance volume. What a treat that is!

I don't really know Reaper yet, having never used it. It won't take me long, since I already often use software similar to such things. But I had Reaper running in the background, fired up the Demo of AD2, picked a Beat from the library and tweaked around with the sample FairFax kit.

I love the controls and possibilities - even though I don't think I'd have a hard time building a kit that I love playing.

It's amazing, however, how we can easily and quickly alter any instrument to be more the way we really want to hear it. The presets they offer are also incredibly vast in scope.


I love the sounds I get from the DM10 module - I really do. Especially how they sound through the headphone out. Too bad the Main Outs don't sound like that.

In switching from acoustic (over 30 years) to electronic, I learned to play differently to avoid missed triggers and polyphony issues.

Somehow, using the same module, but through Midi Out to AD2, those missed triggers and polyphony issues seem to have vanished entirely!

I wasn't able to dynamically get as quiet as I'd like while playing softly, but with a quick test adjusting the trigger settings on the DM10 module, I know I can get it right. Then there's the options in AD2. So I'm mostly convinced that this will be the direction I'll go.

But I still long for a Strike Pro SE. One day!

First I have to try and get my hands on a new laptop!

Be well, my percussive brethren!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Nice setup, Alan!

How do you like those heads - are those the Pearl silent stroke?

Also, can I have that shirt?  ;D
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Sample Pad Pro
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline AlanK

Hahaha, well first of all the shirt was a Giant Tiger $11 purchase (I forget if you're in Canada or even know what GT is).. old Kiss fan but only the original four and with makeup on, lol). All my heads are now Roland except the black mesh that came with the kick/snare I bought from Laurin Drums online. Pearl-wise, I bought two extra crashes and the price was right and they're identical to Alesis, just with the Pearl logo (actually, I think the 14" is actually a crash/ride, it has 3 zone options). I did once have a Pearl Silent Stroke when I was first testing out mesh (my DM10X came with the mylar). I put it on the kick 8" pad cuz it was so damned loud.. unfortunately it was a single ply and didn't last long.. was my first foray into mesh conversions.. I then ordered the kit from 682Drums and they were ok but I moved them over to that other kit we put together at my buddy's and I went all out and upgraded to Roland heads for the toms.. another drum friend gave me a huge set of Maxxim mesh heads including kick drum since he had a hybrid drumset he bought online, and for some reason he wasn't using these anymore or they didn't all fit his shell sizes.. one day I'll put them on my Yamaha acoustic set and see how they do practicing quietly (I'm in a middle townhouse so I try not to blast the neighbours).
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers