Alesis MKII Pro Drum Kit Module is Total Crap !

[boneill]

Hi,

I started with the Surge, and it was alot of fun. The modules kits sounded decent enough, and worked properly with the hardware. I had tons of fun with it. One of the kits even allowed me to play Toto's Africa as it emulated the African drum set/tones properly.

I decided to upgrade to the MKII PRO kit (and found out later that it's actually old) but was blown away by how bad the module is. The module's kits are horrible and don't even work with the set...the cymbals were inaudible, and the toms were not triggering properly at all, lets alone mapped correctly. I don't understand how Alesis could of released such a fucking mess. My research has told me that they don't release any firmware updates, so I'm stuck with their shit module.

I want to make it work, but I'm forced to bypass the MKII PRO module and go straight to MIDI and external software to make the set usable.

Does anyone have any similar experience, and was there any way to make the MKII PRO module viable ?

Cheers,

Barry

[stockhausen]

The module is weird, yes. It seems unfinished and rushed, and it doesn?t match the pads properly.

The built-in sounds are bad, there?s no sugar coating it. It does only have hi had open and closed sounds, no half open - even the Nitro module has a sound for that. It does sense the hi hat though, you get half open and CC over MIDI. The module senses and plays different samples for bow and edge on the hi hat, the cable snake has a stereo plug, but?they give you only a single zone pad. Why? I switched mine with a crash pad, voila, two hi hat zones.

Then, you can import your own sounds - good start! Even more so, it allows for two velocity layers, so you can have different samples based on how hard you hit a pad, so that?s even better. However, there seems to be no way to import sounds for open/closed hi hat hits! It only knows ?hi hat bow?, and whatever sample you import gets played both open and closed. And that?s the deal breaker for me - I would be ready to put in the work and assemble a decent kit for the module, but there appears to be no way to properly import hi had samples.

[Chaser]

The module is weird, yes. It seems unfinished and rushed, and it doesn?t match the pads properly.

The built-in sounds are bad, there?s no sugar coating it. It does only have hi had open and closed sounds, no half open - even the Nitro module has a sound for that. It does sense the hi hat though, you get half open and CC over MIDI. The module senses and plays different samples for bow and edge on the hi hat, the cable snake has a stereo plug, but?they give you only a single zone pad. Why? I switched mine with a crash pad, voila, two hi hat zones.

Welcome to the Forum !

The DM10 MKII Pro (Medeli DD680) wasn't rushed..It is an advanced Module with plenty of processing power (Medeli A5 ) Advanced Features to give you more control of mixing the Kit/Articulations...there are even group FX.
I don't know what Pedal you are using but I hear full transition(AKA Transmutation) from closed to open on a majority of the Traditonal Kits (Excluding Electronic Kits..808..909 and odd Ball ones..there are quite a few I would never use).
Using the Real Hat Pedal.. with the Module set to Pedal.. you get Dual Zone w/Choke..set to Pro-X (FSR)..Single Zone No Choke and No Pedal transition if using Real Hat pedal and set to Pro-X.

When the Module was released (Jan 2018) I was able to obtain all the MIDI Implementation as the Module is capable of receiving CC Controls (MIDI Implementation Chart) so it could be adjust by an Editor or external MIDI Controller..Due to the lack of User interest/participation I didn't move forward with anything.

Out of The Box Sounds and/or ..Comments.. are the same just like those that have $2,000 High End Modules..Roland..Pearl..Yamaha etc..Out of the Box..the Sounds are judged by the ears of the beholder.. Crap or over-processed etc etc and Generic to cover the market which in most cases is worldwide and why Vst/Software usage has become so popular.
The Majority of Drum Modules that offer Sample Imports it is only One-Shots and most are Normalized.
High End Modules like Roland use a combination of synthesis and samples.
One "Open Hit" Sample for the Hi Hat isn't going to give you 1/2 Open or a range..you'll only get a variation of the same sample when raising the Pedal.The better the Algorithm..the more Editing Features.. the better the sound..it also means the Higher Price of the Module.
There is an option for Pedal or Pro-X (FSR - same controller used for STRIKE) as with the Crimson II SE if Pro-X is selected the Hi Hat reverts to single Zone.

The DM10 MKII Pro has Advanced Features including the Feature/ability to change the Size (-63 to +63)..Sustain (-63 to +63) and Pitch (-8 to +8) of ALL Cymbals..including the Hi hat.
An experienced user especially a drummer familiar with playing Different Manufacturers/Sounds etc should be able to Create any Cymbal/Hi hat they desire...that over 250,000 Combinations/Variations (126 x 126 x 16) for each Cymbal/Hi Hat Instrument in the Module.

Take a Hi Hat Example/Sample and Adjust the Hi Hat in the Module to match.

However, there seems to be no way to import sounds for open/closed hi hat hits! It only knows ?hi hat bow?, and whatever sample you import gets played both open and closed. And that?s the deal breaker for me - I would be ready to put in the work and assemble a decent kit for the module, but there appears to be no way to properly import hi had samples.

There isn't a Drum Module on the Market that can directly import a  sample and place it in a Hi Hat Instrument or Pedal Transition..it does not exist...so every Module out there would be considered is a "Deal Breaker".
The Module I didn't find much info about importing/layering samples for Hi Hat Instrument Creation is the Yamaha DTX Series.. DTX Pro/ProX...which if it could I am sure there would be much more discussion/Youtube Videos etc on it.There are the Typical Videos for importing to the Snare,Tom and Crash..which are layered/stacked or Alternate (4 layers per zone)..but nothing specifically for the Hi Hat.

Hi Hats are complex instrument..a Cymbal linked to a Pedal in a circuit that's why there are specific inputs for each.
There are multi-Velocities,Articulations and ranges involved....
You would require
Open - Multiple articulations/round robins..
1/2 open - Multiple articulations/round robins..
Closed - Multiple articulations/round robins..
Chick/Pedal - Multiple articulations/round robins.
Splash - usually Resistance/Voltage change triggering a specific Open Sample.

If you wanted more Dynamics..1/4 open..3/4 open etc.even more Multiple articulations/round robins then assigned to the CC4 transition/Ranges.
Vst Software etc typically the Hi Hat is setup for Variable and standard Open/Closed/Pedal/Splash MIDI Notes.
Some Modules tie one note to Open Closed.The CC4 range depends on the sample pool and some software allows you to move the samples into specific ranges..others don't.
In order to assign MIDI Notes including Tip/shank to each Hihat articulation on a Hi Hat.. you would need 20-30 MIDI Notes which Drum Modules Do Not have.. instead it's Pedal Position (CC4)

The Nitro Module (Medeli DD512 - well over 10 years) doesn't use a CC4 Hi Hat Pedal or send CC4..It comes with the DMHat V2 which Alesis markets as a "Continuous/variable.."TYPE"..Hi Hat..meaning it's using softpots instead of a switch(Open/Closed)...the Articulations for Open.. 1/2 Open..Closed are triggered by a MIDI Note..not Pedal Position.Only MIDI Notes are sent from the Module along with aftertouch.
The Majority of Beginner/Entry level Modules are Amplitude based and use an algorithmn for Cross fading etc.

The Few Drum Modules with an Editor you can import Multi-Velocity samples are the STRIKE,2Box or Mimic Pro.. Complete/Complex CC4 Hi Hat Creation..STRIKE and 2Box..... Mimic Pro you can't create a Hi Hat Instrument..

STRIKE - You create 3 separate Instruments (.sin) for a Hi Hat..the Hi Hat Cymbal..Bow(Tip) and Edge(Shank) and the Hi Hat Pedal.
You can add samples to any/every Velocity range in any order.
It is the Only Module with an Editor that has Full Control over Hi Hat Instrument Creation.





2Box ..You can add samples to Zones and ajust levels..Editor does Not allow  manual adjustment of the layers (order and range).
You must use third-party apps DSoundTool and Lustark DrumIt Manager for that.




Mimic Pro..No Hi Hat Instrument Creation.



In the past year even more advanced Drum Modules..like the Alesis Strata PRIME and CORE Modules along with the Roland V-71 have been released..but so far even none of those have the Feature to Direct Import a Hi Hat Instrument with all Articulations/Samples required..or place the Articulations/Samples directly into the Pedal Transition etc....yet


EDIT:
Added Images/Links

[Hellfire]

@Chaser

In your opinion does the MKII Pro have good midi implementation for drumming? Meaning how would you rate the module as a "Trigger Midi Interface" for VST software? I'm asking because as time goes on, some of these "older" modules can be very good TMI's even if the onboard sounds aren't the greatest. I know some of these modules have more control than others. 

[Chaser]

@Chaser

In your opinion does the MKII Pro have good midi implementation for drumming? Meaning how would you rate the module as a "Trigger Midi Interface" for VST software? I'm asking because as time goes on, some of these "older" modules can be very good TMI's even if the onboard sounds aren't the greatest. I know some of these modules have more control than others. 

I use/used the DM10 MKII Pro mainly as a Standalone..

As far as a TMI..Actually ..Very Good..with one exception..there is an issue....The USB Audio Driver.

It is Class compliant..Older...WASAPI or Direct Sound.

All Vst Software (that recognizes Windows Audio) recognizes the DM10 MKII Pro as both Audio and MIDI device.
You can stream the Audio (Great Quality) back to the Module via USB..however it introduces Latency to the Audio AND the MIDI...No Matter the Sample rate.
I can set as low as 128..still too much..nearly 1/2-1 sec.

Using ASIO driver...32 .. 1.5ms..No Issues , however you then have to output the Audio from origin back to the Aux Input (which is what I do) or out the PC/Mac/Audio/Interface to amplification etc.

I also setup a MIDI loop from in to out..passes in Test , however introduces Latency stacking the GM Instruments with the Digital..regardless if Local Control or GM Mode is ON or OFF or any combination of either.
The Digital Section Plays Fine..GM Section 1/2-1 sec delay.
So it may be the Class Compliant Driver itself..hard to say... MIDI works fine as long as you don't setup the DM10 MKII Pro as the Audio Device in the Vst/Software..but 5 PIN MIDI doesn't..some external Controllers like using the TriggerIO..No Latency..connect another Medeli like the Crimson..latency is back.

Probably the most Notable/Useful is typically you strike a zone to get to it's trigger settings page.
The DM10 MKII Pro..ALL the trigger settings per Instrument are on one page..so if you hit the snare..everything is there for the Head,Rim,Sidestick and you need not worry about using a Chase button.. bumping the rim and accidentally changing pages while making adjustments etc.
The same applies to the Toms and Cymbals.Very fine tuning increments..0-32.
The same settings appear every page...settings that do not apply are deactivated ---

TRIGGER SETTINGS

SNARE/TOMS
Threshold           0-32
Head sens          0-32
Rim Sens           0-32
X-Stick               0-4 (0=Rims shot) (Deactivated Toms)
Head/Rim adjust 0-32
Curves                 (6)
Retrig                 0-32

One thing to Note..the snare does send the MIDI Note for Crosstick/Sidestick...it is not listed in the MIDI Map (in this case 37..and as all other triggers/zones it can be re-assigned to any MIDI Note number)..the adjustment/settings for the X-Stick also apply in Realtime to the Vst as do all the other adjustments.

KICK
Threshold       0-32
Head sensi     0-32
Curve             (6)
Retrig            0-32

CYMBALS/HH
Threshold       0-32
BOW  sens     0-32
EDGE Sens     0-32
BELL Sens      0-32 DEACTIVATED Crash - Hi Hat)
Curves            (6)
Retrig            0-32

VOICE SETTINGS

SNARE/TOMS
Instrument
Vol                 0-127
Pitch            -8 to +8
Pan         R1-8 - C/0 - L1-8
Decay           -5 to 0
Reverb           0-127
FX                 0-127 (Kit FX Section - Groups)
MIDI Note      1-127
Pad Pattern    0-150 (can assign a different one for every pad)
Min Vel          1-127
Strainer         OFF,Loose,Medium 1,Medium 2,Tight   (Snare ONLY ..DEACTIVATED - Cymbals/Toms..)
Muff (Damp) OFF to +4
Head Tuning -63 to +63
Size              (DEACTIVATED - Cymbals ONLY)
Sustain         (DEACTIVATED - Cymbals ONLY)

CYMBALS/HH
Instrument
Vol                  0-127
Pitch             -8 to +8
Pan           R1-8 - C/0 - L1-8
Decay           -5 to 0
Reverb           0-127
FX                 0-127 (Kit FX Section - Groups)
MIDI Note      1-127
Pad Pattern    0-150 (can assign a different one for every pad)
Min Vel          1-127
Strainer (Snare ONLY -.DEACTIVATED - Cymbals/Toms)
Muff (Dampening) OFF to +4
Head Tuning -63 to +63
Size (DEACTIVATED - Cymbals ONLY)
Sustain (DEACTIVATED - Cymbals ONLY)
 
The Module did have a Bluetooth Option..it's still in the Test Menu..However the Feature was removed and replaced with the Hi Hat Pedal - Pro-X selection under the menu.

I mentioned that Alesis became AlesisDrums..the site switched over and the DM10 MKII Pro is Now Discontinued as are ALL the Crimson Kits.
The only DD650 Re-Brand left is the Command Mesh.
The STRIKE Pro SE is also No Longer in the Lineup ,and not listed in the Legacy Section (may be in transition from old site to new) so currently this Forum is the only place to get download links for the recent STRIKE EDITOR (Aug 2024) update etc
The Legacy on the Alesisdrums currently links to Legacy on the Old (for now) Alesis site..pages are being re-linked even as I post this.

Since the DM10 MKII Pro is now Discontinued,I'll link the "Unfinished" DD680 Manual so you can review it and see all of the Features.
The Manual has never been added to the Medeli Downloads.I didn't in the past as the NDA with InMusic I received for Beta Testing is/was pretty intimidating with requirements for Social media Accounts,Forums with Screen Name etc be provided and language about Total Ban and loss of ALL InMusic Software products currently owned etc for whatever they deemed..Inappropriate Info or "Leaked"..which also helped me decide to decline the BFD Invite.
I have Beta Tested for many and I don't consider it a privilege to spend countless hours Testing/Fixing Software that I already own and used for over 20 years or can purchase for well under $100 during frequent sales..only to have someone looking over my shoulder.."Virtually"...I'll Pass.

EDIT:
Added Link

[stockhausen]

I believe you?re misunderstanding me. I?m not asking for round robin 128 layers or something like that. All I want is to import two WAV files and assign one to open hi hat hits and one to closed hi hat hits. Right now, when I import and assign a WAV file to ?Hihat-Bow?, that one sample gets played for open and closed hits, regardless of the pedal state. This happens only with imported samples, not the built-in ones. This means that I can import any kind of drum set that I want as wave files, in two velocity layers even, except that I?m then left with a controller less hi hat.

That’s what makes me call this “unfinished” - apparently this module was designed and shipped without anyone ever trying to import and play a custom hi hat.