Triple Zone, Dual Zone and "?" Cymbal connection on DM10

[crispy1138]

Howdy,

I posted these questions elsewhere and ghostman suggested you fine folks would be of help. I didn't see any specific answers I needed when I did a quick search, so I thought I'd copy my original post as is, here it is:

I recently got a DM10 Studio kit setup, and a 16" Surge 3 zone ride w/choke. The idea was to use the extra trigger input on the DM10 and have four cymbals, two of which being multi-zone.

The triple zone DMPad ride works fine in it's normal connection (inputs "ride1" and "ride2/perc1"). The bell triggers as a switch with no dynamics (unpleasant surprise to me), but all three zones are working.

I replaced the DMPad with the Surge, experimented to figure out which jack was which (neither cymbal has connection markings for it's two outputs), had to change it to "Piezo" from "Switch" to get the bell to trigger ( a good thing, has dynamics now). All three zones are working, however the edge requires a really hard smack to trigger. Is this normal?

Here is my serious question/problem:
Connecting the DMPad cymbal to the last generic trigger input (perc4) does nothing, mostly. If I set the rim to "Switch" I get a trigger from the bell, but set to "Piezo" I get no trigger at all anywhere on the pad. Dead. I've tried switching outputs on the DMPad and cranking sensitivity etc. and nothing. I'm aware it takes the two "ride" inputs to create 3 zone, but I just want to use it as a 2 zone pad.

Can you use a DMPad ride w/choke with a generic (perc4) input on a DM10, or is it incompatible? If it is possible, can someone please explain the correct connections and settings?

Can someone explain the wiring connections of the trigger outputs on the cymbals; are they both TRS, which jack is the bow and which the bell, and how is the choke/3rd zone wired in? What is the tip and ring of each wired to?

And on the DM10 trigger INs, which of the tip and ring are the head and rim connections? And how does the 3 zone/ 2 input config for ride cymbal actually work in the DM10 using a 2 trigger cymbal w/ a "choke"? How does hitting the "choke" trigger the third channel? Enquiring minds want to know....

If anyone has any tech docs on the DM10 etc. that'd be great, or straight up answers to my specific problems. I'd prefer to understand the beasts so I can make custom connections/configs if I choose to.

Thanks!
Cris

[Guinness]

Chris-
 
Welcome to the forum.  I can answer a couple of your questions.  First is, Yes, it is normal to get a crash from the edge, you need to wack it pretty good (technical term.  )
 
As for the 3zone ride turning into a two zone crash, you need to change the Ride setting from 3 zone to 2 zone.  I don't remember if it's that easy, as I messed with a week or so ago, but didn't have time to get completely into it.   see:  http://www.dmdrummer.com/index.php?topic=293.msg2699#msg2699
 
Not sure if that helps much or not...  but it's a start. 

[crispy1138]

Thanks Guinness,

I suppose the most important question is will a 3 zone DMPad cymbal work as a 2 zone pad in a "regular" pad input (like perc4) on a DM10? I'm getting no triggering at all. All the "cymbal" inputs are filled already. Am I missing some setting or specific cable connection from the DMPad's two outputs? Anyone out there tried it....?

Cris

[Guinness]

ok, here's the test...
 
When I pull out the cable for Ride2, all I get is the Bell.
When I pull out the cable for Ride1, i get edge, choke and bow.   I know that's "3" sounds, but "edge", I believe is not really a trigger...  It's triggered by a combination of things:  ie heavy hit that the bow piezo registers.  I'm not exactly certain, but it's something like that.
 
Now, when I change the ride to 2 zone: Pull out Ride2, all I get is bell.
When I pull out Ride1, all I get is bow.
No edge.  No choke.
 
I imagine there's some way to set it up. 
 
As I tried in that previously mentioned post, I did take my 2nd crash (which has a choke stripe) and plugged it into the ride (I think 1), I had a chokable cymbal.  I just needed to change the voice.  The Ride was just straight bell or bow (don't remember which).  But I could have changed the voice to be what I want it to be.  Although, I do remember losing the Choke when I switched it to 2-zone ride.  It just seemed like more trouble than it was worth, as I'd have to change all kits ride and cymbals to be correct.   
 
I think that's the same problem you're seeing, yes?
 
Not sure if there's an easy solution.
 
It seems that one should be able to have the ride be bell and bow; and then the crash2 can have choke.  I THINK you need to split the TRS cable for the ride into 2 TS's to make that work.
 
Again, it may be more trouble than it's worth.  And there maybe an easier way to do all that with a future OS.
 
 

[Hellfire]

Welcome aboard crispy1138.

I wish I had more to add than what Guinness already stated. Unfortunately the only thing I can think of is to ask the member here named Alesis. Alesis (Dan) works for Alesis and may (not 100% sure) be able to pass along that info. I don't know if he can but it might be worth a try.

[crispy1138]

Welcome aboard crispy1138.

I wish I had more to add than what Guinness already stated. Unfortunately the only thing I can think of is to ask the member here named Alesis. Alesis (Dan) works for Alesis and may (not 100% sure) be able to pass along that info. I don't know if he can but it might be worth a try.

Thanks for the "Alesis" tip, and thanks to Guiness for the tests.

Yeah, I can't get the 3 zone DMPad ride to trigger in any other input besides "Ride1/2". That indicates the wiring of the two TRS output jacks is likely different than a basic 1 or 2 zone pad. Need to make a custom cable(s) to go from the cymbal pad OUTs to a single TRS dual zone input on the DM10. That's a question for an Alesis tech, or it's time to take the cymbal pad apart and see what makes it tick.

BTW Hellfire, thanks for the great DM10 kit review and DIY videos on "meshing" the Alesis pads! Helped my decision to get a DM10 kit.