Author Topic: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume  (Read 201 times)

Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« on: February 04, 2022, 11:38:25 AM »
Hi all, fist time posting.
I'm a total noob, started studying a few months ago with a Nitro Mesh Kit.
I always used headphones, but now I'd like to use an active speaker every now and then, nothing special, nothing like stage monitors and such, just a decent speaker (or pair of speakers) that sounds louder than the noise of the sticks hitting the drum heads.

The problem is that whatever I try the volume is incredibly low.
First I tried the PreSonus Eris E3.5 studio monitors. Connected with two TRS cables the volume was so low it wasn't even louder than the sticks hitting the drum heads. Then I tried connecting the headphones output of the Nitro to the RCA unbalanced input of the PreSonus Eris E3.5 and it was a bit better, but volume knobs had to be almost on max and the speakers were shutting off every few minutes (probably because of some sort of protection).
So I tried one M-Audio BX5 D3 studio speaker that comes with two separate amplifiers, 60 watt+40watt for woofer and tweeter. Same problem with both a single TRS cable in the L-mono and a 1/8" to 1/4" TRS cable in the headphones output, the volume is incredibly low and the speaker gets very hot.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I use a DI-box? Should I go through a mixer?
Maybe a simple headphones amplifier could do the trick?
I don't want to buy an e-drum amplifier, anything loud enough would be good, even my JBL bluetooth speaker would be good!  ;D

Please help!
Thanks and sorry for my English ;D

Offline AlanK

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2022, 05:02:12 PM »
It may have just been a typo, but shouldn't you be using TS cables for left and right, not TRS? I don't think your'e getting the proper connections using tip, ring and sleeve for speakers. If you used the headphone as the output, you'd need a TRS splitter to two TS.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2022, 07:55:31 AM »
Not a typo, I used TRS cables as it's written in the manual.
I have read about the Main Outputs being Balanced or Unbalanced here on this forum, but it was about the DM10. The Nitro manual clearly states: "Outputs: Use standard 1/4" TRS cables to
connect these outputs to a speaker or amplifier system."
Don't know if the problem is the same for the Nitro (looks like the DM10 is definitely unbalanced, even if the manual says it's balanced) and don't even know if using TS cables would affect the output volume.
When I tried connecting the headphones output I used the TRS splitter to two RCA that was included with the speakers.

Anyway, I returned both the PreSonus Eris and the M-Audio BX5 and bought a Donner DDA-35 Electronic Drum Amplifier, it's reasonably cheap, a bit bigger than I wanted, should be loud but not too much, 3 bands eq, two main inputs, bluetooth and so on. At least this one is specifically made for e-drums.
It also comes with its own TS cable, so I will be able to try both TS and TRS connections and see what's the difference.

I will report back as soon as I get it, if someone's interested.

Offline Chaser

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2022, 10:22:29 AM »
I presume you have have tried the usual.. turning up the kit and instrument volumes etc
The EQ's on Medeli modules are for "Amplitude"..or Gain..not frequency range..
Turn them up evenly..usually the EQ's are at Zero (0)..except for the High (4)..raise then evenly..set low/mid at 8 ...High=12..that should be the maximum without distorting...the module output will be very loud.
The best combination will be determined by the type of amp and controls..
Example:controls are 0-10 or if you can set flat/mid or at 12 o'clock etc..-5....0.....+5..so you have optimum control of the overall sound.
Then you can adjust from there..i.e. set Kit,Instrument volumes lower or turn the EQ's down to L-4/M-4/H-8

The NITRO module is based on the Medeli DD512
The link will provide you with a more "indepth" manual..EQ'S pg10

EDIT:
Added link
« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 10:47:50 AM by Chaser »

Offline AlanK

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2022, 05:40:14 PM »
Hi Nukeproof. I will have to pull out my manual for my DM10X but I feel almost positive there was a typo in the manual saying to use TRS and it just didn't make sense (maybe for the left/mono out you can use TRS to split to two speakers which would give the same mono channel on each). I've always used TS for each Main output, one for each speaker. I'm positive the electronics muk up with you use a TRS in a TS plug.. I'm not a guitar player but I remember trying my friend's electric when he left it over one time, mistakenly took one of my spare DM10 dual trigger cables and I couldn't get the guitar to work with the amp, it was all a mess.. when I found my TS guitar amp chord in the bin it worked fine.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2022, 07:02:52 AM »
I presume you have have tried the usual.. turning up the kit and instrument volumes etc
The EQ's on Medeli modules are for "Amplitude"..or Gain..not frequency range..
Turn them up evenly..usually the EQ's are at Zero (0)..except for the High (4)..raise then evenly..set low/mid at 8 ...High=12..that should be the maximum without distorting...the module output will be very loud.
The best combination will be determined by the type of amp and controls..
Example:controls are 0-10 or if you can set flat/mid or at 12 o'clock etc..-5....0.....+5..so you have optimum control of the overall sound.
Then you can adjust from there..i.e. set Kit,Instrument volumes lower or turn the EQ's down to L-4/M-4/H-8

The NITRO module is based on the Medeli DD512
The link will provide you with a more "indepth" manual..EQ'S pg10

EDIT:
Added link

Great set of info! Thanks a lot!
I will definitely try your eq settings as soon as I get the new amplifier.

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2022, 07:28:11 AM »
Hi Nukeproof. I will have to pull out my manual for my DM10X but I feel almost positive there was a typo in the manual saying to use TRS and it just didn't make sense (maybe for the left/mono out you can use TRS to split to two speakers which would give the same mono channel on each). I've always used TS for each Main output, one for each speaker. I'm positive the electronics muk up with you use a TRS in a TS plug.. I'm not a guitar player but I remember trying my friend's electric when he left it over one time, mistakenly took one of my spare DM10 dual trigger cables and I couldn't get the guitar to work with the amp, it was all a mess.. when I found my TS guitar amp chord in the bin it worked fine.

Hi AlanK.
I thought you meant the typo was in my reply, not in the manual. My English is faulty, haha.

Yes, there's probably the same typo in the Nitro manual, same as in the DM10 manual, I should have tried TS cables before returning those speakers, maybe they would have worked.
Anyway, too late and by the way the new Donner amplifier comes with its own TS cable.
I also read in other topics that connecting active studio speakers to the drum kit could be a bad choice, since you could blow them with just a pedal kick, so the Donner is probably the best choice anyway.
Now I'm very curious to check what happens with both a TRS and TS cable, now I have both.

Offline Chaser

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2022, 12:21:39 PM »
I don't have any of the Medeli DD512 rebrands..I do have DD650's and they are TRS (attached)I don't believe there would be too many design changes across the product line , but you could remove the screws on the back and just lift/slide the top back as I did to expose the board for the photo.
I have been using TS to RCA as I connect to a 200 watt per channel 10:2 Home Theater system and it works fine..rattles the windows.The RCA are unbalanced, I needed to raise all the EQ's (Gains) and lower the output volume otherwise I had to crank the receivers volume and when changing inputs on the receiver I would get extreme volume changes.

There is a difference between Gain and Volume.Volume is how loud the OUTPUT is. It controls loudness, not tone.Gain is how loud the INPUT is.It controls tone, not loudness.
The definition of Gain has changed somewhat as it was a analog term..now most everything is digital.

Amps heat up if high voltage input or wrong impedance..by having a low input in the module and high output (cranked to the max) you may have been clipping the amps sending too much voltage to the amps input and it goes into protection (if you're lucky to have it)..you can send a 100 watt whisper..and a 10 watt train..you'll hear the train above the whisper but the whisper is sending 10x's the output.I would raise all the EQ gain settings and lower the modules volume to 1/2..

You''l hear about this problem all the time in the Automotive Industry.There are Heads that put out high wattage to go straight to speakers ..and heads that are low wattage designed for component systems..Head > amp > speakers.If you put the high wattage head in a components system and not aware of it you will have problems..clipping..amps shutting down ..or worse..
Another thing to remember is if one component in your chain is unbalanced..they all will be unbalanced regardless if it's a TRS or TS cable.
Guitar amp inputs usually aren't balanced..mixers/boards are balanced.TS cables have a short distance/range which is why you go to TRS and a DI if you have a long cable run.

Audio Cables Explained

EDIT:
Added Images.. The 1/4" Jacks in DM10 are TRS..I believe hellfire posted in a Topic that the Hi Hat was hardwired TS tho..
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 02:31:57 PM by Chaser »

Re: Nitro Mesh Kit - low output volume
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2022, 10:09:04 AM »
I don't have any of the Medeli DD512 rebrands..I do have DD650's and they are TRS (attached)I don't believe there would be too many design changes across the product line , but you could remove the screws on the back and just lift/slide the top back as I did to expose the board for the photo.
I have been using TS to RCA as I connect to a 200 watt per channel 10:2 Home Theater system and it works fine..rattles the windows.The RCA are unbalanced, I needed to raise all the EQ's (Gains) and lower the output volume otherwise I had to crank the receivers volume and when changing inputs on the receiver I would get extreme volume changes.

There is a difference between Gain and Volume.Volume is how loud the OUTPUT is. It controls loudness, not tone.Gain is how loud the INPUT is.It controls tone, not loudness.
The definition of Gain has changed somewhat as it was a analog term..now most everything is digital.

Amps heat up if high voltage input or wrong impedance..by having a low input in the module and high output (cranked to the max) you may have been clipping the amps sending too much voltage to the amps input and it goes into protection (if you're lucky to have it)..you can send a 100 watt whisper..and a 10 watt train..you'll hear the train above the whisper but the whisper is sending 10x's the output.I would raise all the EQ gain settings and lower the modules volume to 1/2..

You''l hear about this problem all the time in the Automotive Industry.There are Heads that put out high wattage to go straight to speakers ..and heads that are low wattage designed for component systems..Head > amp > speakers.If you put the high wattage head in a components system and not aware of it you will have problems..clipping..amps shutting down ..or worse..
Another thing to remember is if one component in your chain is unbalanced..they all will be unbalanced regardless if it's a TRS or TS cable.
Guitar amp inputs usually aren't balanced..mixers/boards are balanced.TS cables have a short distance/range which is why you go to TRS and a DI if you have a long cable run.

Audio Cables Explained

EDIT:
Added Images.. The 1/4" Jacks in DM10 are TRS..I believe hellfire posted in a Topic that the Hi Hat was hardwired TS tho..

Hi Chaser and thanks again for all the info you provided.

I tried the "gain" trick, it works! But I tried it on the new Donner amplifier which doesn't have any volume problem.

Speaking about the Donner DDA-35 Electronic Drum Amplifier, it finally arrived and it worked perfectly. No problems at all with how loud it sounds, as I had with two active speaker I tried before.
I don't think it's loud enough to play along with others, but it's just perfect for what I need. The volume knob on the Nitro module is at its half position and the knob on the Donner amplifier is a bit less, with this settings I have a pretty decent volume and I won't annoy my neighbours too much.

I tried both the TS cable that came with the amplifier and also a TRS one, no difference at all.
Why the Donner amplifier works fine and the other two speaker systems I tried didn't is still a mistery.

Sooner or later I will definitely open the Nitro module just to see if it's balanced or not, I won't do it now because everything's working fine, and now I also know that having an unbalanced component (the Donner amplifier) makes the whole system unbalanced.