Greetings all, Just 'upgraded from DM5 to DM10 X Mesh'

[TDiPete]

Hi Folks,  Happy Christmas to you all, 

 I was surviving with a DM5 until my daughter decided to take drum lessons at school.  She was not happy with the DM5 as it is to far from an acoustic kit so chatting to an old friend I have ended up buying his DM10 for Christmas.  What a difference BUT now the fun starts.  I have done a load of reading on here trying to find info.

So he only got the kit brand new about 5-7yrs ago.  It is the DM10 X, so the black mesh heads, 4 toms, 2 crash and a ride.  Also brand new in a box is the ProX Hihat as he never got round to getting a hat stand. 

I set the kit up as was, amazed at how much better it is (even though it is an old kit now).  Managed to pick up a hat stand so tried to set un the Pro X hats...  Here is where the fun is.  I tried to follow the instructions but the links to the dloads on Alesis weren't there, managed to find them in the DM10 discontinued section. 

Current system info is
Utility : O/S
Trig OS : V1.00a
Sound ROM : V1.03
Sound OS : V1.00s

Ive not run the updates as I was fortunate to do a bunch of reading and became confused and worried about what I need and that I might get things wrong.

With the pro x wired up, the hat top works, the pedal sort of works but is no where near as good as the original pedal.  It just seems to be seen by the DM10 as open or closed, no nice transition between the two.  I was amazed at how good the standard pedal is over the DM5.  I've done the calibration open/closed but don't even get the sound you should when you are opening and closing the pedal only when you hit the top hat.  Ive watch youtubes of how these should work and it is not.  My perception of the problem is the DM10 doesn't know who the pedal works if that makes sense.
If anyone out there knows of a thread on how to set this up of is willing to give me some assistance that would be appreciated.


Pete

[Chaser]

Hi Folks,  Happy Christmas to you all, 

 I was surviving with a DM5 until my daughter decided to take drum lessons at school.  She was not happy with the DM5 as it is to far from an acoustic kit so chatting to an old friend I have ended up buying his DM10 for Christmas.  What a difference BUT now the fun starts.  I have done a load of reading on here trying to find info.

So he only got the kit brand new about 5-7yrs ago.  It is the DM10 X, so the black mesh heads, 4 toms, 2 crash and a ride.  Also brand new in a box is the ProX Hihat as he never got round to getting a hat stand. 

I set the kit up as was, amazed at how much better it is (even though it is an old kit now).  Managed to pick up a hat stand so tried to set un the Pro X hats...  Here is where the fun is.  I tried to follow the instructions but the links to the dloads on Alesis weren't there, managed to find them in the DM10 discontinued section. 

Current system info is
Utility : O/S
Trig OS : V1.00a
Sound ROM : V1.03
Sound OS : V1.00s

Ive not run the updates as I was fortunate to do a bunch of reading and became confused and worried about what I need and that I might get things wrong.

With the pro x wired up, the hat top works, the pedal sort of works but is no where near as good as the original pedal.  It just seems to be seen by the DM10 as open or closed, no nice transition between the two.  I was amazed at how good the standard pedal is over the DM5.  I've done the calibration open/closed but don't even get the sound you should when you are opening and closing the pedal only when you hit the top hat.  Ive watch youtubes of how these should work and it is not.  My perception of the problem is the DM10 doesn't know who the pedal works if that makes sense.
If anyone out there knows of a thread on how to set this up of is willing to give me some assistance that would be appreciated.


Pete

Welcome to the Forum !

The Trigger OS shown is for the Realhat Pedal..
DM10 Trigger OS V1.00a (Real Hat pedal..Continuous/Variable) (9/2/09)
DM10 Trigger OS V1.01a (Mylar - Pro-X Hi Hat..FSR) (Updates 8/5/14)
DM10 Trigger OS V1.01b (Mesh - Pro-X Hi Hat..FSR)  (Updates 9/22/14)

I would try adjusting everything to see of you can dial in the Pro-X first including trying different curves that help match style of playing...if you update the Trigger OS you can't downgrade it and go back to the Realhat pedal.

The Cymbal to spring setup is critical on how the Hi hat responds.
If the pedal CC4 transition is out of sync with the physical parts you'll have issues with Chick,splash.
If the cymbal is too high off the spring the HH will never fully close..if the cymbal is laying on the spring causing too much pressure on the FSR it will never fully open.
You can fine tune adjusting the trim however it's best to get the the whole setup working as close as possible first.
 
Make sure the bottom controller box is NOT sitting on felt/foam.It needs to be solid so the felt/foam doesn't absorb the pressure from the spring on the FSR.It should be directly on the cup or washer (if you use it),depending on the Hi Hat stand.
If you do use a Felt/Foam then you would need to do some additional adjustments.
I have seen many using the foam spacer that is included with some HH stands...the performance will be inconsistent.

The Top Cymbal should be just above the spring..the Pro_X uses a DMPad Series which is lighter than the STRIKE Cymbal so you may be able to have it resting on the spring when you lock the clutch down..you'll know immediately as the HH will sound partially closed.The biggest complaint for the DMPad is it is/was acoustically louder.You can remove the bottom cymbal and setup the top as it will be easier instead of guessing with the gap..mark the top of the clutch/rod with a sharpie or marker..then you can add the bottom cymbal and align the clutch backup to the rod.

Increasing Trim Closed..easier to close/choke the hi hat..
Increasing Trim Open..closes the Open Range and even allow you to setup a 1/2 open HH.

As for the links..Alesis is transitioning to a New site for the Drums...the majority if not all links are working for the most part ,with the exception of as few of the links in the Legacy..mainly the Mesh Kits ..DM10 Studio Mesh..DM10X Mesh...which bounce you to the Aleis site , which then bounces you back to the alesisdrums site.
I managed to archive before the transition..however there is only one link.Notice The Text is cutoff in different places under the description for both products/Kits.This has been that way since day one of the release of the updates.

DM10 Trigger OS V1.00a (Real Hat pedal..Continuous/Variable) (9/2/09)

DM10 Trigger OS V1.01b (Mesh - Pro-X Hi Hat..FSR)  (Updates 9/22/14)

The Mesh kits have the Final Mesh Firmware updates 9/22/14..not the earlier 8/5/2014 which are for the Mylar Kits and include DM10_triggers_V1.01a which is the Mylar-Pro-X and also included under the DM10 Module downloads and the Pro-X  downloads.
The Update Instructions show 5 Kits should be under the menu for selection ..however..the Original DM10 Kit..The DM Pro (Mylar-Surge Cymbals) option was removed.

The 9/22/14 updates also had the option for the v1.00a (Mylar-Realhat) which the file properties are dated 2009 so I don't know if that was a mistake on Alesis part or not as I never received an answer and as mentioned above The Text is cutoff under the description
I don't think there ever was a specific Firmware for Mesh-Realhat.
There were never any changelogs to compare the 3 versions.

You should be able to get a fully working Hi Hat.I have a STRIKE "Beater" Kit that I swap out modules on for testing and have a DM10 with v1.00a.
I don't have a DM10 Module with the v1.01a or v1.01b Pro-X update for comparison and chose not to update as it's the last DM10 module I have and I don't plan on buying more.The module works fairly well (no one has ever complained playing the kit) with the STRIKE Kit pieces/triggers with either the Realhat or STRIKE HH..just some tweaking when changing HH controllers.
The STRIKE Hi hat uses the exact same FSR controller and the difference is the Top cymbal which is heavier and dual zone.
Originally the STRIKE Kits came with a 12" top cymbal..later on the 14".
During this time there was a spring change the Black spring was replaced with the Chrome spring (stiffer longer) and a boot replaced the lower cymbal
which had/has sensors for closing.

EDIT:
Added Links

[TDiPete]

Brilliant, thanks for this. 

I followed the instructions in the still sealed Pro X box for fitting to the hat stand so no foam under the FSR.  My instant idea was to use the original hat as a China over the ride/floor. 
I had a feeling the issue would be over a software update but not being able to find the 'b' file for the pro x on alesis site I spent yesterday reading pretty much every post on this site (the search wouldn't let me search for the pro x as it says each would must have 2 or more letters). 
My god you are right about the top hat being so noisy, I did find a guy on you tube who has weighted it and added a load of adhesive foam (A route I may go down).  Ive also seen people pull apart the real pedal  (the one that is stock for the dm10 mesh kit, rubber pad under the pedal that presses on the resistive strip) and mount the electronics to the normal HI hat pedal.  Ive actually been looking at a non destructive way to mount the HI hat stand to the alesis pedal as the top hat and real pedal combo works well straight off.   I don't want to 'fix' whats not broke so the idea of not being able to swap between a/b software, not being able to go back to the real pedal after pro x is just crazy! 

Question on the cables, the Pro X came with 2 TRS cables, does it need TRS or can the original TS cables be used?  I have already stripped the hats as I wondered if there were electronic/electrical issues (before i started reading).  From what I can see and have tested with a meter they just need TS.

I have 'built' my own kit and saved to 100 (miffed when I read you can't get the DM10 to power on at that kit and forgets all the volume levels of the faders too)  I have noticed when i have been making adjustments to sens levels etc I get the occasional sample played that is not assigned to any part of the kit.  I'm hoping this is just a glitch when in the set up section as Ive not had it when playing yet. 

Pete

[Chaser]

Brilliant, thanks for this. 

I followed the instructions in the still sealed Pro X box for fitting to the hat stand so no foam under the FSR.  My instant idea was to use the original hat as a China over the ride/floor. 
I had a feeling the issue would be over a software update but not being able to find the 'b' file for the pro x on alesis site I spent yesterday reading pretty much every post on this site (the search wouldn't let me search for the pro x as it says each would must have 2 or more letters). 
My god you are right about the top hat being so noisy, I did find a guy on you tube who has weighted it and added a load of adhesive foam (A route I may go down).  Ive also seen people pull apart the real pedal  (the one that is stock for the dm10 mesh kit, rubber pad under the pedal that presses on the resistive strip) and mount the electronics to the normal HI hat pedal.  Ive actually been looking at a non destructive way to mount the HI hat stand to the alesis pedal as the top hat and real pedal combo works well straight off.   I don't want to 'fix' whats not broke so the idea of not being able to swap between a/b software, not being able to go back to the real pedal after pro x is just crazy! 

Question on the cables, the Pro X came with 2 TRS cables, does it need TRS or can the original TS cables be used?  I have already stripped the hats as I wondered if there were electronic/electrical issues (before i started reading).  From what I can see and have tested with a meter they just need TS.

I have 'built' my own kit and saved to 100 (miffed when I read you can't get the DM10 to power on at that kit and forgets all the volume levels of the faders too)  I have noticed when i have been making adjustments to sens levels etc I get the occasional sample played that is not assigned to any part of the kit.  I'm hoping this is just a glitch when in the set up section as Ive not had it when playing yet. 

Pete

TS cables should be fine as that is what the original DM10 came with.. TS for single zone HH and TS for the controller (Realhat).

I have TRS as that is what the STRIKE uses...but I have setup with both (TS and TRS)

 
To change the default startup kit..

Turn on your module
Select the kit you would like to be the startup kit
Press "seq" (this should be 00 if you just turned your module on)
press "save" ("store" on DM-10)
Turn the power off and back on again. The module should now start with your selected kit rather than 000

These sequences (and their default kits) will allow you to skip to any group of 10 kits by simply selecting Seq 00 to 09:
Seq 00 (Kit 00) - no change
Seq 20 (Kit 11) - copy to Seq 01
Seq 36 (Kit 20) - copy to Seq 02
Seq 25 (Kit 30) - copy to Seq 03
Seq 51 (Kit 41) - copy to Seq 04
Seq 48 (Kit 51) - copy to Seq 05
Seq 49 (Kit 60) - copy to Seq 06
Seq 56 (Kit 71) - copy to Seq 07
Seq 17 (Kit 82) - copy to Seq 08
Seq 45 (Kit 92) - copy to Seq 09

This hack could also include Kits 100 to 199 by reassigning Seq 10 to 19.
I haven't done the group skipping as I don't use the DM10 very often..
 
See this Topic

As far as Custom Hi Hat Setups..I have Fabricated a number of Hybrid setups over the years using very specific HH Stands....the Trick is getting everything synchronized

[TDiPete]

I had seen the post about using sequeces for kits and was going to come back to it at a later date so thanks for posting it up on here to make it easier to find later.  This is my 1st foray into mods for an electronic kit.  The DM5 I have had for a few years and I wasn't really playing much due to having to have carpel tunnel on both hands and all 8 fingers done for trigger finger over the last 15 yrs.  Drumming had been In my younger years and over taken by becoming a Live sound engineer FOH and MONs for more than enough years for ears to regret it. 
I had hoped my daughter would go for piano or guitar not drums but she is annoying as I am so who am I to blame?  She follows after me.. it has to sound right before it can be played hence the upgrade.

I love what you have done for the hat stand.  Interested to know more on the wiring, do you have a schematic for it? The electronics side I am confident on as I was an electronics engineer for a good while too. 
Today I removed the Alesis bottom unit/box thing, put the felt back, 3d printed an adapter for the difference in hat stand dia to dia of the lower hat. that made a great difference in the feel and acoustic noise from them.  This evening I took the hat stand to bits and have been CADing an adapter to mount the pedal to it.  Interesting it looks like you fully replaced the bottom of the hat stand for a custom piece.  My current stand is a cast section and I hadn't considered just replacing the whole cast section.  I'll have to see what tube is on the shelf in the morning, would probably be easier to just remake the whole section.

I really appreciate the assistance given the age of the unit now.    Such a shame so many of the links people posted up on here over the years all link to a now defunct site.

Pete

 

[TDiPete]

Just been looking again at the pics, realised the 1st pic is not of the same MOD as the second, chain connection and electronics.  Is the bed red knob a 'lock' for the hi-hat for double bass use?  if so I like that , I had read a few posts people had put up about a Y split and a guitar/FX stomp switch, I had had Ideas of doing something so it would release with a stomp on the hat pedal again.
I will say this is all ideas punching well above my and my daughter drumming ability (At least I was made to learn rudiments from the Buddy Rich book not just learning the drum version of tab and playing along).
I do remember my old Premier APK had a Hat stand with adjustable spring pressure something I was looking for (noticed yours had) in the one I got but the want for a stand to try the Pro X v time v distance meant I got a pearl H-830 for ?30