Author Topic: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.  (Read 537 times)

How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« on: May 08, 2021, 06:15:11 PM »

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post and really excited and happy to be here  :)

I am buying a new Alesis Command Kit. I am setting this up to be an ambidextrous playing style. I will explain:

The Hi-hat is placed right in the middle and straight in front of me. I am playing with a double bass pedal and want a hi-hat pedal to the outside of the left kick pedal and outside the right kick pedal.

My concern is how to get the second hi-hat pedal to function correctly.

Has anyone successfully attempted this or has any ideas to get this dream of mine into reality?

Thank you all for any responses and hopefully down the road I can contribute more to the community as I learn.

Cheers!

-Josh-

Offline Chaser

Re: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2021, 10:06:26 PM »

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post and really excited and happy to be here  :)

I am buying a new Alesis Command Kit. I am setting this up to be an ambidextrous playing style. I will explain:

The Hi-hat is placed right in the middle and straight in front of me. I am playing with a double bass pedal and want a hi-hat pedal to the outside of the left kick pedal and outside the right kick pedal.

My concern is how to get the second hi-hat pedal to function correctly.

Has anyone successfully attempted this or has any ideas to get this dream of mine into reality?

Thank you all for any responses and hopefully down the road I can contribute more to the community as I learn.

Cheers!

-Josh-

Mid Hi Hat is more common than you may think...Mangini..Bachman etc..some drum teachers recommend it or anything that keeps you from crossing hands..
The Command Kit uses the Realhat which is a softpot pedal and since the Command uses a DB25 Harness (snake) and the Hi Hat cable is short you will need a female connector to either 2 female TS connectors then you could use standard cables to each pedal..but you may have to custom fabricate a (3) Female TS Y cable or find a TRS female to (2) TS female.
The other option simpler would be a 1/4 TS Female to (2) TS male..and get (2) 1/4 TS extender cables for the pedals...Extender cables have a male and a female end..

Offline Hellfire

Re: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2021, 08:48:22 PM »

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post and really excited and happy to be here  :)

I am buying a new Alesis Command Kit. I am setting this up to be an ambidextrous playing style. I will explain:

The Hi-hat is placed right in the middle and straight in front of me. I am playing with a double bass pedal and want a hi-hat pedal to the outside of the left kick pedal and outside the right kick pedal.

My concern is how to get the second hi-hat pedal to function correctly.

Has anyone successfully attempted this or has any ideas to get this dream of mine into reality?

Thank you all for any responses and hopefully down the road I can contribute more to the community as I learn.

Cheers!

-Josh-

That's a tough one. The issue is, you can't just split the hi-hat input and use two pedals as you will always have one pedal with the minimum resistance. Meaning the module will always see a full open hi-hat. You are going to need a physical switch between them. Your other option is to use a trigger MIDI interface (TMI) or a second Command module and program the hi-hat to function the same as your first and connect the two via MIDI.

Note: I am assuming the Command module uses a continuous hi-hat control and has a MIDI input.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 08:50:42 PM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Chaser

Re: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2021, 10:05:42 PM »

That's a tough one. The issue is, you can't just split the hi-hat input and use two pedals as you will always have one pedal with the minimum resistance. Meaning the module will always see a full open hi-hat. You are going to need a physical switch between them. Your other option is to use a trigger MIDI interface (TMI) or a second Command module and program the hi-hat to function the same as your first and connect the two via MIDI.

Note: I am assuming the Command module uses a continuous hi-hat control and has a MIDI input.

I just checked and can confirm that you can use 2 pedals but not full function/range...each pedal will.....splash..closed hit (pedal down)... but only get to 1/2 open...what you don't get is full open..it also depended on the Hi Hat combination sample
I used an original DM10 I have on my work desk..I have a DD650 module but I currently don't have any female adapters to wire up a Y cable

EDIT:
I forgot to mention there is no bark or chick and that the Realhat pedals used were a 90k and a 70k..I'll have to dig through inventory and find a match for one or the other.

EDIT:#2..
I found another 90k...and after Calibrating the Hi Hat.I have both pedals functioning properly...chick ,closed, full range pedal..splash.
Bark is dependent on samples/Hi Hat combination...splashes very easily

Quick Vid unprofessional video with iPhone,moving around and a loud little 9 volt amp (doesn't make for the greatest audio setup)....just open in your browser..maybe sometime I'll setup a tripod etc , but for now ..serves the purpose.

NOTE:The Command module (Medeli DD650 ) does not have a Hi Hat Calibration option...so when I get a chance I'll get a female connector but until then understand you are probably only get 1/2 open..no bark/chick

« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 11:57:33 PM by Chaser »

Offline Hellfire

Re: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2021, 10:20:12 AM »

That's a tough one. The issue is, you can't just split the hi-hat input and use two pedals as you will always have one pedal with the minimum resistance. Meaning the module will always see a full open hi-hat. You are going to need a physical switch between them. Your other option is to use a trigger MIDI interface (TMI) or a second Command module and program the hi-hat to function the same as your first and connect the two via MIDI.

Note: I am assuming the Command module uses a continuous hi-hat control and has a MIDI input.

I just checked and can confirm that you can use 2 pedals but not full function/range...each pedal will.....splash..closed hit (pedal down)... but only get to 1/2 open...what you don't get is full open..it also depended on the Hi Hat combination sample
I used an original DM10 I have on my work desk..I have a DD650 module but I currently don't have any female adapters to wire up a Y cable

EDIT:
I forgot to mention there is no bark or chick and that the Realhat pedals used were a 90k and a 70k..I'll have to dig through inventory and find a match for one or the other.

EDIT:#2..
I found another 90k...and after Calibrating the Hi Hat.I have both pedals functioning properly...chick ,closed, full range pedal..splash.
Bark is dependent on samples/Hi Hat combination...splashes very easily

Quick Vid unprofessional video with iPhone,moving around and a loud little 9 volt amp (doesn't make for the greatest audio setup)....just open in your browser..maybe sometime I'll setup a tripod etc , but for now ..serves the purpose.

NOTE:The Command module (Medeli DD650 ) does not have a Hi Hat Calibration option...so when I get a chance I'll get a female connector but until then understand you are probably only get 1/2 open..no bark/chick

Good to know. So with matching pedals and some tweaking on a DM10 it can work. I really didn't think it would work. I know it's been about ten years since I tried this, but back then it didn't work. I don't remember which module I was using.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Chaser

Re: How to trigger two hi-hat pedals on one kit.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2021, 02:13:55 PM »
Good to know. So with matching pedals and some tweaking on a DM10 it can work. I really didn't think it would work. I know it's been about ten years since I tried this, but back then it didn't work. I don't remember which module I was using.

I tested with a STRIKE module this morning since it had "Auto Calibration" implemented and with factory default pedal settings everything works fine.
It needs fine tuning as it splashes extremely easy..
I have spent a great deal of time with the Alesis Hi Hat issues and even designed some equipment to get the actual HH ranges...The Realhat and Pro_X are more of a universal type probably why they have been around as long as they have..the STRIKE module range is nowhere near 90k.
I have designed* a remote (mounts on any rim) that will allow manual adjustment of the STRIKE controller (plugs into the back..HH controller #2) and you can adjust the HH to any range and have full pedal control.I have also implemented it to onboard a few of the modules (pic attached).
I have also calculated the OHM range for each of the velocity ranges in the Editor so you can construct a Hi Hat to actually match the pedal range and corresponds on the dial.
Very very few of the factory Hi Hats go beyond 3 ranges..closed-semi-full open..and have minimal sample or samples in each..sometimes just 1.
These HH are also used with multiple kits
Amp Room and Spank are a couple examples that are close to full range and will go from closed - tight - loose - semi - full open..but they also lack a sufficient amount of samples for smooth transition thoughout the range..currently a 2-3 Ohm range each until you get to semi to 3/4 range which is 20-30 Ohm ..then Full open.
I picked up some DM10 MKII Pro modules...they are being blown out.These modules have a lot more capabilities than advertised...256 polyphony..bi-directional USB audio/midi and there is the Pro-X option in the menu,the head/cross stick/rim shot setup is quite interesting and works extremely well.It supports a Dual Zone Hi Hat while a single zone is shipped with the kit..so it is STRIKE HH compatible..I am waiting for response from Alesis as the Auto Test on the module shows a USB MIDI port error as I am having a 1-2 sec latency when using the Bi-directional audio..

*I am in the final phase of my 6 axis CNC prototype (actually 3+2)..with quick change: side mill option,3D printer headstock,laser engraving Headstock ) with Touch screen and a completely redesigned  Mach 3 screen set with a Virtual Machine plugin so I don't have to rely on a CAM program to translate for 5 Axis.This is for doing small production runs as I miss it from my days in the Aftermarket Harley Davidson Industry and having a full machine shop..what I don't miss is 5 ton machines and the smell of rancid coolant etc..lol...a couple "in construction" (pics attached.)

I have de-railed this thread enough so am going to stop...if I remember correctly your are in engineering so am sure you can understand/appreciate the effort , I am sure you have many more ideas from the past or present that you would love to do small runs of without all the expense of a full machine shop..I should probably start a Topic in the Top Floor Club..

I am off to see if I have an extender cable I can hack up or order a female TS end so I can test the DD650 and the DM10 MKII pro for Dual Pedals..
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 02:58:39 PM by Chaser »