Alesis....where are the 3rd party sounds?

[Hellfire]

I'm now unlocking this topic. I figure that the amount of time passed was good enough for a cool down.

[H3RB]

i dont really see why people are moaning about the 3rd party sets so much... if people care that much just use vst thousands of kits out there already and your moaning because alesis dont have one? if you bought an acoustic kit it has basically one voice lol so why complain.
the pro/studio kits are great and stupidly cheap compared to the competitors so with all the money saved just buy steven slate or toon track and stop complaining lol

[Orangeblood]

Because it was advertised...that's why.
VST's aren't cheap...it's cumbersome and not everyone likes messing with all the shit that DAW and VST's have you go through.
.. forgot the DM10 doesn't work that well with some VST's due to certain mapping issues.

[Rev2010]

Just to explain myself a bit, I was rather heated for a number of reasons. The main being I still do not have the ability to use dual zone cymbals, and this is a listed feature of the kit. I want to be able to assign one cymbal sound to the edge of a dual zone cymbal and one to the bow. On my kit it only ever triggers the edge (and yes I have the triggers setup correctly and Dan@Alesis confirmed this on kit he tried. My drummer needs more cymbals and so far I've already added one and still need to add another. It gets costly and makes the kit a bit more wobbly with the weight. I wouldn't have to do this if they fixed the issue.

Then when I see the next two replies coming off as complacent just because Dan chimed in it irked me. Did anyone else not raise an eyebrow when he said they're looking for soundset developers? With all the companies they are listing as working with I find it a bit unnerving to hear they asking for sound developers on an internet forum.

I didn't mean to come off harsh to Dan, he's been extremely helpful to me. He even mailed me two anti-spin mounts free of charge since the Surge cymbals I bought didn't come with them. I'm just getting a bit tired of waiting for a function that my kit should already be capable of doing. And in my point of view, without giving more detailed info such as, "Within the next two months we expect to release a new firmware" I find it rather pointless to just post saying, "Oh don't fret, we are working on it and focusing more attention on it now".

So I apologize Dan if I upset you and if it seemed like I was personally attacking you. I swear it wasn't anything personal, I wouldn't fault you personally in a company the size of Alesis.


Rev.

[Rev2010]

So now Dan is messaging me asking where Alesis says the DM10 module supports dual zone cymbals. I directed him to page 6 of the DM10 manual that says:

9. TRIGGER INPUTS – Connect the triggers of your drum kit to the
appropriate inputs here. Please note that dual-zone pads or
cymbals (e.g., a drum with head and rim triggers or a cymbal with
bow and bell sounds) will require TRS cables to trigger both
zones.

*EDIT - Dan just told me that was an error and that the DM10 was never designed to handle dual zone triggers. This is clearly despite the fact that the toms, snare, and ride are all multizone and despite the fact that nearly each trigger input has two triggers with individually adjustable settings. So it looks like my issue is just being thrown out the window. Alesis has just lost a customer.

Rev.

[Hellfire]

So now Dan is messaging me asking where Alesis says the DM10 module supports dual zone cymbals. I directed him to page 6 of the DM10 manual that says:

9. TRIGGER INPUTS – Connect the triggers of your drum kit to the
appropriate inputs here. Please note that dual-zone pads or
cymbals (e.g., a drum with head and rim triggers or a cymbal with
bow and bell sounds) will require TRS cables to trigger both
zones.


Rev.

Interesting... that quote states "bow and bell sounds" not bow and edge. The only cymbal triggers that I know of on the market that is bow and bell only is Alesis's own 2 zone ride and I believe you can get a piezo/piezo (bow and bell) 2 zone ride from Smarttrigger as well.

[Alesis]

I am sorry for the confusion this note in our manual caused you, Rev. The intention of this sentence in our manual is to refer to the multi-zone Ride cymbal only, and we will revise it to be clearer in future printings.

On no web page, spec sheet, catalog, price list, or other marketing material have we ever claimed that the DM10 supports multi-zone cymbals on any input other than the Ride.

If you purchased the DM10 and expected dual-zone cymbal compatibility because of this phrase in our manual, then I sincerely and roundly apologize.

[Rev2010]

Its not just the manual Dan. The Surge cymbal faq page mentions their dual zone functionality and nowhere does it state the DM10 is incapable of dual zone cymbals. Is there any way Alesis would provide me with a refund if I could send the kit in?


Rev.

[Hellfire]

Its not just the manual Dan. The Surge cymbal faq page mentions their dual zone functionality and nowhere does it state the DM10 is incapable of dual zone cymbals. Is there any way Alesis would provide me with a refund if I could send the kit in?


Rev.

This is getting old Rev. Let's cut to the chase. Dan has apologized. Dan has shown that they (Alesis) are making efforts to try to address issues and wishes with the DM10 with the Crowdsourcing topic. In your own admission, you have shown that Alesis DID NOT state in the manual that a cymbal edge should work on the DM10. Now, your argument has changed to "it doesn't say it shouldn't work." What kind of argument is that? It also doesn't state that it can't make fries... From what I've read on this forum, Alesis is not able to accommodate your wishes at this time. You're beating a dead horse here and it's about time this issue was put aside for a while.

[Rev2010]

Give me a break Phil. Just because they worded it bell and bow you fly in in defense of Dan? Since when does a module manual have to specifically state support for bow and edge? You two are acting pretty absurd here. You even uploded a youtube clip showing it works on your kit so you got some nerve telling me im in the wrong here. Tis alright. Its clear Alesis isn't gonna do squat about it so whatever.

Rev.

[goony]

Anyways back to the real subject of this thread, how far away are the 3rd party sounds for you Alesis owners?

[Orangeblood]

who knows.....

[rockdude]

I feel sorry for you Rev2010. Hope things will get sorted. I doubt it though. Alesis is not fast on addressing things.

...and those 3rd party sounds should be here anytime now. I might be wrong but I think I read somewhere that several packs should be released in 2010. Time is running out pretty soon  Such a pity for those who bought the DM10 long ago for the 3rd party sounds.

[vaikl]

A question to all: What kind of 3rd party soundsets are you expecting? Or what would you like to buy? SSD-like monster-(post-)processed sets or truly acoustic leading-branded sets or the never-heard-this-before sets?

When i look at Pearls redboxsoundshop.com and imagine that i have to decide which of the offered soundsets for the RedBox are good enough to fill up all of my DM10 memory then i honestly would reject this option.

Only if Alesis plan to offer extended sound manipulation options like ambience/room/overhead mic parameters or extended dynamic articulations for such soundsets - some of them like Attack are listed in the Crowdsourcing thread -  i would think about buying them. But that would mean that Alesis have to finish a bigger firmware update *prior* to the soundset launch.

Any thoughts on this?

[Hellfire]

Only if Alesis plan to offer extended sound manipulation options like ambience/room/overhead mic parameters or extended dynamic articulations for such soundsets - some of them like Attack are listed in the Crowdsourcing thread -  i would think about buying them. But that would mean that Alesis have to finish a bigger firmware update *prior* to the soundset launch.

Any thoughts on this?

My understanding of the sound sets is the user will be able to use the on board effects. I know it is not ambience/room/overhead mics but it is close enough for a drum module. It was also my understanding that the basic "modeling" parameters (such as level, pan, effect, eq on/off, the velocity filters and layers A & B) would still be part of the new sound sets. I would like them to add an "Attack" parameter to the DM10 since the RED box already has one. I think a simple "Tone" control on each zone would be nice as well. Actually a full three band eq would be nice but knowing that the system memory is limited I just suggested a tone control.

[vaikl]

Actually a full three band eq would be nice but knowing that the system memory is limited I just suggested a tone control.

You're truly right with the limitations of 128 MB but then i wonder what this *one* soundset could beat over the hundreds of factory/user sets to replace them in the module. Is it more velocity layers for one instrument or bigger wave files with a higher sample rate or what?

My question is still: Is the quality of this one soundset worth replacing all other sets in the box (i don't think so if i listen to the redboxsoundshop demos) or is it just the limited procedure with a SysEx dump which is the only way now to load new sounds?

[Guinness]

It seems it's all guessing at this point.  But if you're right, I wouldn't want to have to lose all my kits for 1 3rd party kit.  But then again, maybe not.  Lately, I've been playing on only one kit.   But I like the flexibility to change should another kit suit a tune better.
 
128MB is limiting, it seems.
 
i know peeps said a memory upgrade is not possible, but it'd be cool if we could, if indeed that is the module's bottleneck.

[Hellfire]

You're truly right with the limitations of 128 MB but then i wonder what this *one* soundset could beat over the hundreds of factory/user sets to replace them in the module. Is it more velocity layers for one instrument or bigger wave files with a higher sample rate or what?

They could just as easily make a multi kits sound sets, but the idea is one kit would have more velocity layers and the sound files would be larger just for that reason. Right now there are only about 3-4 velocity layers for some of the stock sounds. Alesis makes up the difference with their Dynamic Articulation.

My question is still: Is the quality of this one soundset worth replacing all other sets in the box (i don't think so if i listen to the redboxsoundshop demos) or is it just the limited procedure with a SysEx dump which is the only way now to load new sounds?

That's going to be up to the end user to decide if it is worth it. They can upload more than one kit per dump. That is what happens when you upload with the current sound rom update off of Alesis's site.

[Orangeblood]

I don't understand why some people seem to think 128mb is limiting. My DTX3 had 128mb in it when I first got it and the extra kits that could be loaded and sampled were plenty. It doesn't take a lot of memory to accomplish this.

[Hellfire]

I don't understand why some people seem to think 128mb is limiting. My DTX3 had 128mb in it when I first got it and the extra kits that could be loaded and sampled were plenty. It doesn't take a lot of memory to accomplish this.

I agree 100%. I think what is happening however is people look at their laptop/desktop and say "hell, my computer has 4 gig of ram!". They also know that a lot of these VST's require 2+ gigs of ram to run good, so they make a false conclusion that a module needs as much memory as their computer to be as good as a VST. That is just not the case. On a VST the effects are ran in memory. On a module they are not. The effects on a module are handled by dedicated hardware/software. Because of that less ram is need to run a sample.

Do you need a lot of ram for 96 Khz @ 24 bit sampling? Yep, but 44.1 khz @ 16 bit is CD quality and most drum module use that sampling rate. Can people hear a difference in those sample rates? Most (not all but most) can't hear the difference. So, if you are going with 44.1 @ 16 bit, even less ram is needed.

[Orangeblood]

Exactly....I loaded a sample using all the 82 midi notes in the DTX3 and it totaled 72mb. Those kits were huge...had 8 different kits.

[Guinness]

Ok...  so, my asssumption that 128 was the limiting factor is unsubstantiated and false.  Good to know.

[Orangeblood]

It's understandable though....I thought the same until I started messing with mine

I will say it's pretty sad that Yamaha uses the 168pin DIMM...it's hard to find now it's so old.

[vaikl]

I agree 100%. I think what is happening however is people look at their laptop/desktop and say "hell, my computer has 4 gig of ram!". They also know that a lot of these VST's require 2+ gigs of ram to run good, so they make a false conclusion that a module needs as much memory as their computer to be as good as a VST.

No, not me. I'm only thinking about *pure* data, not the overhead.

Do you need a lot of ram for 96 Khz @ 24 bit sampling? Yep, but 44.1 khz @ 16 bit is CD quality and most drum module use that sampling rate. Can people hear a difference in those sample rates? Most (not all but most) can't hear the difference. So, if you are going with 44.1 @ 16 bit, even less ram is needed.

Not essentially in every case. Even with 44.1/16 there can be a greater difference if samples are cut-off too early, i.e. cymbal edge/hits. There might be another byte-hungry difference between dry and post-mastered samples.

To make it clear again: My most important question is about the procedure of loading/unloading soundsets, like the one the RedBox dictates. And if - as we have discussed in another thread - the ReadBox and the DM10 are mostly the same in hard- and software could we expect that the procedure will be the same on the DM10 module? If yes then for me it would be a step backwards.

[vaikl]

They can upload more than one kit per dump. That is what happens when you upload with the current sound rom update off of Alesis's site.

I as an user can't decide how many and which kits are uploaded with the *actual* method from Alesis. I can only upload one dump file.

Maybe Alesis is working on a true editor for the DM10 (like Soundquest's MidiQuest).