Alesis Nitro Max notation map?

[DaveE]

Hi
A very recent purchaser of the above and total newbie. I get a free subscription to Drumeo for a while, and I've downloaded the Drum Notation Key. I'm confused over whether (for example) I can do a Hi-hat (half) on the Alesis, and if there's a drum map showing notation matching the Nitro Max. I'm prepared to buy a book on e-drums but don't know if it's necessary or if it matches the Nitro Max. I do have Guitar Pro but the notation doesn't quite match the kit either.
Any advice appreciated.

[Chaser]

Hi
A very recent purchaser of the above and total newbie. I get a free subscription to Drumeo for a while, and I've downloaded the Drum Notation Key. I'm confused over whether (for example) I can do a Hi-hat (half) on the Alesis, and if there's a drum map showing notation matching the Nitro Max. I'm prepared to buy a book on e-drums but don't know if it's necessary or if it matches the Nitro Max. I do have Guitar Pro but the notation doesn't quite match the kit either.
Any advice appreciated.

Welcome to the Forum !..

Being New to E-drumming..are you familiar with how Drum Modules work?..
They are basically TMI..Trigger to MIDI Interfaces.
The "Hits" are converted to a MIDI signal then sent to either..Onboard Sound Generator/Sounds or out to trigger Hardware/Software/vst/ etc.

That being said..

The Nitro MAX Module does have a MIDI assignment for 1/2 open..MIDI Note 23

User Guide pg 25...MIDI Map also attached

so it's capable of sending a 1/2 open to Hardware/Software/Vst etc...

Unfortunately...I don't see any individual 1/2 Open Articulations in the Onboard Sound List...just Open/Closed/Splash..also attached.
It also looks like there may be a Typo..HH Pad..which should be HH Ped (Pedal)

I am not familiar with this module as it was recently released (Officially Feb..same day as BFD Player) and have no experience with one.
There are 7 Hi Hat Combinations (H-C, 001-007). , which typically means the Open > Closed is controlled by CC..(Pedal Position).

I take it none of those have a 1/2 open sound?..or is it really hard to find it holding down the pedal.
Continuous/Variable Pedals take some practice to get the correct pressure..especially if you are New to E-drumming.

If you are using Training Software etc  like Melodics the requirement is to put the Module into GM Mode (General MIDI )..Hi Hat is Open/Closed Only.
The Hi Hat pedal will act like an Open/Closed/Switch Type pedal.(No 1/2 Open or Variable/Continuous.. CC4)

I am not familiar with Drumeo and if there is an online Drum Coach type app like Melodics...I don't believe it has one like Melodics.
It is mainly lessons/teachers.

EDIT:
Added Links images

[DaveE]

Thank You Chaser.

I'll look again at the manual. When all else fails....
The kit does come with a 30 day intro to Melodics, which I haven't taken advantage of yet. I've tried to see if the pedal works but as you say I'm a newbie.
Bear with my ignorance but is it a case of closing down the pedal a little and then using a drumstick on the pad - or does the sound emanate by using the pedal?
With apologies for a sort of double post (I mentioned this in my intro), I have Guitar Pro software and some of the songs I have (my guitar collected some dust) includes drum tracks, and GP's drum notation is more extensive, so for example there is Ride (middle) and Ride (edge). It has the Hi-Hat (Half). I've just started using the software by placing my Chromebook (I just purchased the android version of GP) onto a music stand and connecting to the module with Bluetooth.
Works well except the drum track has those Hi-Hat (half) etc. Really no biggie as I can substitute just an open hit or something.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Edit: The nitro max faq on the website shows this -

"Is the Hi-Hat pedal a continuous or a switch-type pedal?
The Hi-Hat pedal included with the Nitro Max Kit is a continuous variable type pedal. This pedal allows for open, half-open, and closed hi-hat sounds, and will also allow for "chick" and "splash" sounds when the pedal is pressed down and released without striking the hi-hat cymbal pad."


 

[Chaser]

Thank You Chaser.

I'll look again at the manual. When all else fails....
The kit does come with a 30 day intro to Melodics, which I haven't taken advantage of yet. I've tried to see if the pedal works but as you say I'm a newbie.
Bear with my ignorance but is it a case of closing down the pedal a little and then using a drumstick on the pad - or does the sound emanate by using the pedal?
With apologies for a sort of double post (I mentioned this in my intro), I have Guitar Pro software and some of the songs I have (my guitar collected some dust) includes drum tracks, and GP's drum notation is more extensive, so for example there is Ride (middle) and Ride (edge). It has the Hi-Hat (Half). I've just started using the software by placing my Chromebook (I just purchased the android version of GP) onto a music stand and connecting to the module with Bluetooth.
Works well except the drum track has those Hi-Hat (half) etc. Really no biggie as I can substitute just an open hit or something.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Edit: The nitro max faq on the website shows this -

"Is the Hi-Hat pedal a continuous or a switch-type pedal?
The Hi-Hat pedal included with the Nitro Max Kit is a continuous variable type pedal. This pedal allows for open, half-open, and closed hi-hat sounds, and will also allow for "chick" and "splash" sounds when the pedal is pressed down and released without striking the hi-hat cymbal pad."

The Nitro Max is an Entry level Module..Single Zone Toms..Single Zone Cymbals...Single Zone Ride..so there will not be an Edge or Bell..only Bow.Middle is considered the Bow.
The Toms show a rim in the mapping...but I believe they are only single Zone as they don't have a Physical Rim on them..so they may be able to be upgraded to Dual Zone Toms..it has never been confirmed since I asked in this Topic.
The description for the pedal is the normal typical description of a Variable/Continuous Hi Hat pedal..Open is pedal up during hit..No Hit,pedal held down is Chick..Pedal held down while hitting is Closed..down/up without hitting the cymbal is the Splash.
The Module is only going to send the 1/2 Open MIDI Note (23) when the module interprets the hit as 1/2 Open and that's when you strike the top cymbal at the same time the pedal is 1/2 open..that's where the practice comes in and finding the Sweet Spot (pressure) on the Pedal.

[DaveE]

Thank You Sir - that helps alot.

[Chaser]

Thank You Sir - that helps alot.

No problem at all..Happy to Help..
If you were using Windows or Mac there are more options and more Software Solutions
Melodics and the BFD Player are not compatible with Android...

EDIT:
I should mention The Realhat pedal using a linear softpot.The pedal itself has changed aesthetically over the years but the principle is still the same.
It uses a rubber activator which basically rolls down a pressure strip and requires constant pressure.The part that makes contact with the rubber actuator may be different depending on what year the pedal was issued.
The 5 Min Fix helps reduce the pedal gap/travel as nothing will happen until pressure is applied.
It takes some getting used to and a little finesse.

[DaveE]

I just had a look at the hi-hat pedal. Underneath it states "DMhat Pedal. Open/Closed"
I don't know f that contradicts the faq I posted above and copy/paste here:

"Is the Hi-Hat pedal a continuous or a switch-type pedal?
The Hi-Hat pedal included with the Nitro Max Kit is a continuous variable type pedal. This pedal allows for open, half-open, and closed hi-hat sounds, and will also allow for "chick" and "splash" sounds when the pedal is pressed down and released without striking the hi-hat cymbal pad."

[Chaser]

I just had a look at the hi-hat pedal. Underneath it states "DMhat Pedal. Open/Closed"
I don't know f that contradicts the faq I posted above and copy/paste here:

"Is the Hi-Hat pedal a continuous or a switch-type pedal?
The Hi-Hat pedal included with the Nitro Max Kit is a continuous variable type pedal. This pedal allows for open, half-open, and closed hi-hat sounds, and will also allow for "chick" and "splash" sounds when the pedal is pressed down and released without striking the hi-hat cymbal pad."

That would be the problem...the DMHat is a "Switch Type Pedal"..On/Off..Open/Closed...Not Continuous/Variable
If you look inside the small opening there is a little Tab..which is a switch that gets flipped up and down.
It is also used for Kits that have "Switch" Input for the Kick drum.

The image on the product page also shows a DMHat V2...so either the product description is incorrect..and it only uses an open closed pedal (which matches the Samples list)...or it may be able to use a Variable Pedal ..but only comes with the DM Hat..

I would check with Alesis Support and confirm one way or the other

[DaveE]

Thanks Chaser.
I tried Alesis (well InMusic) chat support but they must have been busy. I emailed Caleb at Sweetwater so we'll see. Glad I joined here
The pedal I have does look like the one in the pic - so as you say may be the wrong one or mislabeled.

[Chaser]

Thanks Chaser.
I tried Alesis (well InMusic) chat support but they must have been busy. I emailed Caleb at Sweetwater so we'll see. Glad I joined here

The Kit is New..but it's a 3rd Generation of the Nitro..
There have been a number changes along the way including the HH Pedal.
The earlier models had a 1/4" jack..some of the later the Foot board changed (Round Silver) and the jack became an 1/8" (3.5mm) one and the pedal was advertised as variable  with open.. 1/2 open.. closed..but also would not work with other Alesis Models.
The "Surge" Kit used the same module as the Nitro but had upgraded Hardware..Rack and triggers....
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a....a Surge "Max"..released.

[DaveE]

Mine has 1/8th going into the pedal.

[Chaser]

Mine has 1/8th going into the pedal.

Which pedal Does it look like the image (s) attached...
The circled area in the 1st is a rubber actuator/linear softpot...which would make it Continuous/Variable.
The circled area in 2nd is a Tab.. which would make it a "Switch Type"
The DMHat "Switch Type" has a little Tab..not a Rubber actuator.
The DMHat V2 is one of the "Newer" Designs..Alesis has never listed it on the Official site or the InMusic Store ,no one has posted any info so there is not much info in it.
I have 4 different Realhat Variable Pedal Models from over the years.The differences for some were Asthetics..top foot pedal..others had a different part to press on the actuator otherwise they were available in 70K..70K w/Resistor..90K..90K with Resistor.
I do not have one of the Newer with 1/8" inputs so I can't comment on resistance range,what the difference is and why some sellers state it's not compatible with other Alesis Modules that use a Variable HH Pedal.


To test the pedal..and see exactly what this pedal does/is doing..you'll need to use a MIDI Utility like MIDIOX (Win).. or MIDI MONITOR (Mac).
I have No idea of any MIDI Utility/app for Android.
The closest I could find for anything about a MIDI Utility was TouchDAW and altho it has a MIDI Monitor I didn't see anything remotely close to what the above Utilities offer.You will need to have more experience reading MIDI.

MIDIOX:Connect the module..select it as MIDI device...
Under Options > Data Display make sure the Hex input/outs are unchecked.
This will allow MIDI Note Numbers to show on the display and you'll see CC4 info.An example is attached.
The example attached was a recent experiment with STRIKE Multipad an eDRUMin and a Realhat pedal so the SMP would send MIDI CC4 (Pedal Position) to Hardware/Software/Vst.
The Input Display (DATA 1) will show similar 46-Open..44-Pedal (Chick) 42-Closed.. 21-Splash.. CC4 Foot Controller.. except you should also see a MIDI Note 23 if 1/2 open is being sent when you find the sweet spot on the pedal and timed hit.

EDIT:
Added Links..Images

[DaveE]

Chaser
I tried replying once but my post went into the ether. It looks the same. I tried to attach a gif but didn't work. Do I just attach as per below?
Edit: The pic of the pedal that shows some blue under the footpad -- I don't see that. In that area seems to be a thin plate - tight fit so i can't get in to feel.

[Chaser]

Chaser
I tried replying once but my post went into the ether. It looks the same. I tried to attach a gif but didn't work. Do I just attach as per below?
Edit: The pic of the pedal that shows some blue under the footpad -- I don't see that. In that area seems to be a thin plate - tight fit so i can't get in to feel.

If you can't identify by the pics...the Continuous/ Variable pedal will have a travel adjustment screw (drum key type) on the front of the pedal that goes into the housing..the Switch Open/Closed type will be blank/smooth.

EDIT:
Looks like the V2 Variable Pedal has been changed ..to 2 Phillips screws.

[DaveE]

I don't see an adjustment screw at all - anywhere.

[Chaser]

I don't see an adjustment screw at all - anywhere.

Looks like the V2 Variable Pedal has been changed ..to 2 Phillips screws.
You really can't tell the difference looking at the pics using the same angle?
It's pretty simple ..it either has a rubber actuator or it doesn't.

[DaveE]

I have 2 Philips screws. I'll try and post a pic tomorrow. Outwardly it looks the same - but to be honest I'm not sure what part you mean by actuator. Behind the 2 screws is a plate - then the metal triangle. The lower of the two screws is partially hidden by the front - hard to see how that can be used to make travel adjustments.
Anyway - I'll look again tomorrow - spent this afternoon talking to a car salesman. I'm exhausted - hope you're not in the trade. Appreciate the advice.
It looks more like the last pic you posted above this post.

[Chaser]

I have 2 Philips screws. I'll try and post a pic tomorrow. Outwardly it looks the same - but to be honest I'm not sure what part you mean by actuator. Behind the 2 screws is a plate - then the metal triangle. The lower of the two screws is partially hidden by the front - hard to see how that can be used to make travel adjustments.
Anyway - I'll look again tomorrow - spent this afternoon talking to a car salesman. I'm exhausted - hope you're not in the trade. Appreciate the advice.

If there is a Triangle plate it is a Variable Pedal the pic in the last post shows the left side of a Variable Pedal..the pic in the post showing the left side of a Switch Type pedal has no plate. you can see inside..the Triangle plate presses down on the rubber actuator which is around 3" long and rolls on a soft pot resistor .

EDIT:
Added Image..How eDrum HH Pedals Work

[DaveE]

Except for the fact that underneath it states  the Open/Closed part - it looks like the one I have is the V2 you pictured.
I'll probably hear back from Sweetwater early  next week. I'll send a ticket into Alesis as well. Once I know how to post a pic here I'll do so.
Cheers - Edit - my files may have been too big at first.

[Chaser]

Except for the fact that underneath it states  the Open/Closed part - it looks like the one I have is the V2 you pictured.
I'll probably hear back from Sweetwater early  next week. I'll send a ticket into Alesis as well. Once I know how to post a pic here I'll do so.
Cheers - Edit - my files may have been too big at first.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith into the Labeling being incorrect and the possibility of having the wrong pedal
If you check around you'll see dozens and dozens of the same exact Pedal both New and Used for sale (ebay,Reverb,Retailer sites etc etc) with the same DMHat Open/Closed label on the bottom..

As Posted in Reply #11

To test the pedal..and see exactly what this pedal does/is doing..you'll need to use a MIDI Utility like MIDIOX (Win).. or MIDI MONITOR (Mac).
I have No idea of any MIDI Utility/app for Android.
The closest I could find for anything about a MIDI Utility was TouchDAW and altho it has a MIDI Monitor I didn't see anything remotely close to what the above Utilities offer.You will need to have more experience reading MIDI.

MIDIOX:Connect the module..select it as MIDI device...
Under Options > Data Display make sure the Hex input/outs are unchecked.
This will allow MIDI Note Numbers to show on the display and you'll see CC4 info.An example is attached.
The example attached was a recent experiment with STRIKE Multipad an eDRUMin and a Realhat pedal so the SMP would send MIDI CC4 (Pedal Position) to Hardware/Software/Vst.
The Input Display (DATA 1) will show similar 46-Open..44-Pedal (Chick) 42-Closed.. 21-Splash.. CC4 Foot Controller.. except you should also see a MIDI Note 23 if 1/2 open is being sent when you find the sweet spot on the pedal and timed hit.

You would know in just a few minutes exactly what the pedal is (Open/Closed as Labeled or Continuous Variable as advertised) and what the Pedal is doing and the MIDI info the Module actually sending and not need to wait on multiple email replys/responses from anyone who may or may not have you perform the same test to see if the Module/HH Pedal are functioning properly.
Triggers can be tested by moving to different inputs.
Hi Hat pedals can only use the HH controller input.
It would also give you a Real Time/Visual experience of how much pressure you need to apply to send the 1/2 Open Note.

[DaveE]

Thanks. I'll check with Midi-ox. Appreciate it.

[DaveE]

I'm afraid these midi messages don't mean much to me. I carefully pressed downn on the pedal a few times. I have opened up a ticket at Alesis, and the Sweetwater contact is sending the pics to his Alesis rep. Sorry it's a bit wonky
Midiox2 is the better screenprint.

[Chaser]

I'm afraid these midi messages don't mean much to me. I carefully pressed downn on the pedal a few times. I have opened up a ticket at Alesis, and the Sweetwater contact is sending the pics to his Alesis rep. Sorry it's a bit wonky
Midiox2 is the better screenprint.

You should just play it like a Hi Hat..like the example I provided above.
It is exactly the same mapping you would have seen see..except for the 1/2 open (23)..which the majority modules do not send 1/2 Open.
That way you can see whats happenning between the hits and the pedal travel.
If you would have made sure the Hex Values were unchecked you would have seen MIDI Note Numbers under DATA 1.

I just see pedal (chick) and Key After touch No CC4 pedal position....
After Touch is typically Choking for Cymbals...but I believe is considered Poly Pressure for a Hi Hat.
There is No MIDI Implementation in the User Guide so maybe the Module or this Module design doesn't send CC4..

[DaveE]

Cheers.
Well, now I'm not getting anything from the pedal on screen- sure it's my fault and I'll wait to hear back.  just used the pedal as normal and once I got a longer note - not sure what that was.
I forgot to remove the checkmarks. All a bit complicated to me
Cheers.

[Chaser]

Cheers.
Well, now I'm not getting anything from the pedal on screen- sure it's my fault and I'll wait to hear back.  just used the pedal as normal and once I got a longer note - not sure what that was.
I forgot to remove the checkmarks. All a bit complicated to me
Cheers.

I tried to make as simple as possible..leaving those boxes checked and displaying only Hex information requires Knowledge of MIDI...Unchecked gives a more user friendly display and you really need all the articulations to get an accurate diagnosis..after all...the focus of all your topics is bout a 1/2 open Hi hat , which to this point.. still no idea if the module is sending a 1/2 open Note.
You don't want to have to send back/return something only to have the returned be exactly the same.
The Previous  Nitro Modules (Medeli DD512) apparently also do not send CC4...No One has ever reported it in this Forum so it was always presumed to send CC4 as the product description "Continuous/Variable Type pedal" has always been that same description..However I have seen it reported in DAW Forums like Logic..