DM10 Expansion with Trigger I/O & ControlPad

[Hellfire]

As I was playing around with my DM10 today, I made one heck of a discovery. You can access 35 (yes I said 35) additional sound locations (midi notes) with midi. Each one of the 35 sound location are totally editable. Meaning FX, EQ, Decay, Layer A B ect.

That means you could fill all the inputs of the DM10 (22 zones), add an Alesis Trigger I/O and fill all inputs (20 zones), add an Alesis Control Pad (8 zones), and still have room for 7 mores zones!

That's what I call vertical equipment integration.

[audiopat]

I don't think people understand the power of this discovery! Thats amazing. Can you access melodic sounds with say, the Trigger IO? I've been wanting to build a malletkat style trigger, 12 inputs for a full octave. If the DM10 has melodic sounds that can be accessed, I will be totally sold.

[Hellfire]

I don't think people understand the power of this discovery! Thats amazing. Can you access melodic sounds with say, the Trigger IO? I've been wanting to build a malletkat style trigger, 12 inputs for a full octave. If the DM10 has melodic sounds that can be accessed, I will be totally sold.

Your right, people don't understand what this discovery means. I tried to lay out a couple things that would drive the point home but, admittedly there isn't the interest that I thought there would be.

I will have to check into the melodic sounds but, I don't see why you can't. When going threw MIDI you should be able to access all sounds on the DM10 (including the GM sounds).

[Hellfire]

One correction. You could have 3 hi-hats using the above set-up. That is because the Alesis control pad also has a hi-hat pedal input. Again, hi-hats 2 and 3 would be switch type only but still. Also, you can add 2 more external triggers via the control pad two external trigger jacks. All of that should use up all 35 additional sounds. That would be one heck of a kit.

Here's a pic to help visualize what I'm talking about:


Update (11/21/10)
A merge box must be used do to the fact that the Alesis Control Pad doesn't send it's midi in data back out to the "Midi Out" Port. Yes, I find that odd as well.

[ghostman]

Good picture.. kind of points one one minor complaint about the Trigger IO - I understand why it doesn't have MIDI in, but it could have a MIDI thru...  you can't stack two IO's w/o another MIDI device to meld the MIDI.

Ahh,, the vulcan MIDI meld.

[WOUND4SOUND]

true you have a point ghost or use a dm5 or dm10 but it would be nice to have a chain port where you could piggy back as many as you want but with midi you only have so many channels you can use so it limits that. but unless you peter chris with a gazllion drums 2 would be nice!!

[DeeDubs]

One correction. You could have 3 hi-hats using the above set-up. That is because the Alesis control pad also has a hi-hat pedal input. Again, hi-hats 2 and 3 would be switch type only but still. Also, you can add 2 more external triggers via the control pad two external trigger jacks. All of that should use up all 35 additional sounds. That would be one heck of a kit.

Here's a pic to help visualize what I'm talking about:

SWEEEEETNESSS.  I was looking at a controlpad too for down the road.. KickASS!

[Pier]

The 'melodic' feature that Audiopat indicated some posts ago is just one of the great possibilities of the "MIDI window" that every DM10's drum kit offer.
Here's another one (mind you: this will take quite some work, but might be worth):

The DM10 seems to offer a window of 57 zones for every kit; let's pretend to use the DM10 just as a sound expander. Connect an Alesis trigger I/O to DM10's midi in.
Then use all the 10 DUAL inputs of the Trigger I/O with your pads/cymbals configuration (could sound more or less like a drumset with snare-bass-3 toms-hi hat-ride and 3 crashes - all single zone).
Program kit 1 in the Trigger I/O with 20 midi notes - kit 2 with 20 DIFFERENT midi notes and kit 3 with 20 STILL DIFFERENT midi notes.
Maybe you'll want to keep some sounds/notes the same for the 3 kits (I suppose the hi-hat sound... or maybe a crash or two... that's because the notes in a single DM10 kit are just 57 and not 60!).

Are you still with me? Now the fun part:

Keeping i.e. kit 001 in the DM10, you can get three totally different drum kits switching between kits 1, 2 and 3 on the Trigger I/O.
And that's just DM10's Kit 001: since the DM10 has 100 kits, you can access a total of 300 different drum kits !!!!

That's a good value for your money, I think! 

[Hellfire]

The 'melodic' feature that Audiopat indicated some posts ago is just one of the great possibilities of the "MIDI window" that every DM10's drum kit offer.
Here's another one (mind you: this will take quite some work, but might be worth):

The DM10 seems to offer a window of 57 zones for every kit; let's pretend to use the DM10 just as a sound expander. Connect an Alesis trigger I/O to DM10's midi in.
Then use all the 10 DUAL inputs of the Trigger I/O with your pads/cymbals configuration (could sound more or less like a drumset with snare-bass-3 toms-hi hat-ride and 3 crashes - all single zone).
Program kit 1 in the Trigger I/O with 20 midi notes - kit 2 with 20 DIFFERENT midi notes and kit 3 with 20 STILL DIFFERENT midi notes.
Maybe you'll want to keep some sounds/notes the same for the 3 kits (I suppose the hi-hat sound... or maybe a crash or two... that's because the notes in a single DM10 kit are just 57 and not 60!).

Are you still with me? Now the fun part:

Keeping i.e. kit 001 in the DM10, you can get three totally different drum kits switching between kits 1, 2 and 3 on the Trigger I/O.
And that's just DM10's Kit 001: since the DM10 has 100 kits, you can access a total of 300 different drum kits !!!!

That's a good value for your money, I think! 

I guess you could do that. That is assuming you don't use all 57 notes for one kit. That is what makes MIDI so great, all the possibilities.

[Hellfire]

Formally called DM10, 35 additional sounds via MIDI!!!

I decided to change the name of this topic and make it a sticky because I believe as time goes on this will be an important subject.

I also thought I would add this breakout chart to show what midi note numbers are needed when programing the Trigger I/O, ControlPad or any TMI (Trigger Midi Interface).

[Hellfire]

Just a little picture to show just how easy it is to expand the DM10 with a Trigger I/O:

[zendrumdude]

Good picture.. kind of points one one minor complaint about the Trigger IO - I understand why it doesn't have MIDI in, but it could have a MIDI thru...  you can't stack two IO's w/o another MIDI device to meld the MIDI.

Ahh,, the vulcan MIDI meld.

True, but you can use a midi merge box to do the same thing (although admittedly that's another piece of gear to buy and have to set up).  I like the Midi Solutions Quadra Merge.  M-Audio makes a 2-input model as well.

Jer

[ucdwino]

I hope this isnt a stupid question, but I cant find the answer regardless.

What kinds of other sounds does the DM-10 have that you can assign to those extra spots?

I have a trigger i/o and am getting really tired of having to plug in my laptop in order to play.  That and with the software I bought, there are not any sounds that I would actually USE if I had more triggers avaliable.

You can only have so many toms and cymbals - Does the DM10 feature other percussion sounds - like bongo, tambourine, cowbells, gongs - that kind of stuff?

If so, getting a DM10 to combine with my trigger i/O is certain for me.

[Hellfire]

I hope this isnt a stupid question, but I cant find the answer regardless.

You can only have so many toms and cymbals - Does the DM10 feature other percussion sounds - like bongo, tambourine, cowbells, gongs - that kind of stuff?

Welcome to the forum ucdwino! No, it is not a stupid question. Yes, the DM10 has many extra sounds past the standard drum (i.e. snare, toms, cymbals) type. You can see a list of them in the DM10 manual which you can download from here:

Manuals & Tech Data links for DM10, Trigger I/O, DM6, DM5, DMpro, & D4

I hope that helps. Again, welcome to the forum.

[ucdwino]

Thanks Hellfire.  Super-helpful as always!

The list in the manual is pretty impressive!  Looks like I'll be getting myself a DM10!  With my trigger i/O and all those sounds my kit is going to become a monster!

[ProDigit]

I read a lot about modifying or utilizing sounds inside the DM10 by using the iO module. But what about users who only have a computer, and connect it to the module (midi/USB in)?
Can they gain anything?

[Hellfire]

I read a lot about modifying or utilizing sounds inside the DM10 by using the iO module. But what about users who only have a computer, and connect it to the module (midi/USB in)?
Can they gain anything?

Well, you gain the ability to use VSTi's like Steven Slate, EZdrummer and others on your computer. The DM10 (like the Trigger I/O in this fashion) would be used as a TMI (Trigger Midi Interface). The computer itself will not add more trigger port to a DM10 like a Trigger I/O or ControlPad would. Think of it this way, By hooking up  the DM10 to your computer, you would then have a Super Trigger I/O. And that is becuase the DM10 has more inputs and more tweakable trigger functions than the Trigger I/O. Keep in mind that the internal sounds of the DM10 don't matter if you are using it with a computer in this fashion. I hope that helps.

[ProDigit]

I know the drum module can be used as a MIDI trigger for drum software; I was more meaning, if you eg: had a computer and some software, could you send a midi signal to the DM10 and make use of internal samples that would be hidden otherwise?
or perhaps expand the drumset, even if it was just for testing purposes, with a MIDI pad?

I mean not everyone has all that gear to daisychain.
I guess you could daisychain more drumsets (and heads) together for a larger drumset.

But can you use a program to send midi signals to the head, to have it eg: playback midi files, or perhaps playback a small midi based drumloop on the background (using internal samples of the DM10) while you are playing drums on the DM10 set?

[Hellfire]

I know the drum module can be used as a MIDI trigger for drum software; I was more meaning, if you eg: had a computer and some software, could you send a midi signal to the DM10 and make use of internal samples that would be hidden otherwise?
or perhaps expand the drumset, even if it was just for testing purposes, with a MIDI pad?

Yes, you should be able to send midi to the DM10 while using it. The confusion I'm having is when you state "expand the drumset, even if it was just for testing purposes, with a MIDI pad?" I'm assuming you mean add more trigger pads to the DM10 via MIDI? If that is the case, how does one plug in more triggers than the DM10 can handle if it is just plugged into the computer?

I mean not everyone has all that gear to daisychain.

I understand that but the purpose of this topic is to let people know that you can expand the size of your DM10 drum kit with these other devices. Basically, there are 35 additional notes that can be accessed. However you want to use and access them is up to you. the only way I know how is threw the Midi or USB (if using a computer) port.

But can you use a program to send midi signals to the head, to have it eg: playback midi files, or perhaps playback a small midi based drumloop on the background (using internal samples of the DM10) while you are playing drums on the DM10 set?

Sure, I don't see why not. I haven't done it myself, but as long as you set up the extra notes you are not using (meaning the extra 35) I don't see why you can't. Please keep in mind the only limitation you are going to have is the 64 note polyphony. If you are sending midi data at the same time you are playing, you are going to use that up pretty fast. BTW, this would be a limitation on any midi device by any company. I hope that helps.

[ProDigit]

Thank you, you answered most of my questions!

By plugging in the midi PADS or drum computer in either a Midi through on the computer, or using MidiOx to rerout midi signals over USB.

You could expand a drum set like the DM10, with a cheap drumset (like the Yoki which has MIDI out), and daisychain the Yoki to the DM10's midi in (or rout it via a computer); or use other trigger pad software..

I guess I did not fully understand what you meant was like being able to access 35 samples you could not before?
Because if so, it just takes a computer to scan the 128 instruments over midi, or perhaps with a midi keyboard controller you could access them too...

Or was your finding of the DM10 of a different kind?

[Hellfire]

Thank you, you answered most of my questions!

By plugging in the midi PADS or drum computer in either a Midi through on the computer, or using MidiOx to rerout midi signals over USB.

You could expand a drum set like the DM10, with a cheap drumset (like the Yoki which has MIDI out), and daisychain the Yoki to the DM10's midi in (or rout it via a computer); or use other trigger pad software..

I guess I did not fully understand what you meant was like being able to access 35 samples you could not before?
Because if so, it just takes a computer to scan the 128 instruments over midi, or perhaps with a midi keyboard controller you could access them too...

Or was your finding of the DM10 of a different kind?

I think you've got it. Using the Yoki is no different than using the Trigger I/O or the ControlPad. Why you would need to rout it to the computer I'm not sure. Unless you are using VST's on the computer.

Careful, there is a difference between "samples" and "midi notes". I'm talking about "midi notes" not samples. Anyone can access all the samples on the DM10 with the given inputs, but the way the DM10 is set up, you can only access 22 midi notes via those trigger inputs. The DM10 is capable of triggering up to 57 midi notes total, but in order to use the extra 35 (22 inputs + 35 midi accessible notes = 57 total midi notes) you need a midi device with a midi output that allows you to add more triggers. Like a Yoki, Yamaha, Roland, Alesis, OSP, Pearl and Ion modules or a Trigger I/O and ConrolPad. Basically, any midi device with a midi out can access the extra 35 note. Assuming you can change the midi note values on the midi device you are plugging into the DM10. I guess you could use the computer in that instants to re-route midi notes from a device that can't change its notes. Does that help clear anything up?

[ProDigit]

But what good is it to be able to access 35 extra notes, if there are no samples triggered by them?

I guess I don't fully understand the benefit of this thread....

srry

[Hellfire]

But what good is it to be able to access 35 extra notes, if there are no samples triggered by them?

I guess I don't fully understand the benefit of this thread....

srry

Each one of those 35 extra notes can have samples assigned to them in the DM10. The benefit of this thread is to show a user how to expand the number of triggers inputs that can be used with a DM10. But, you need to add a piece of equipment via midi (TMI or another drum module). The midi note thing is important because you can not use the trigger inputs on the TMI or drum module unless the midi notes match the extra 35 midi notes in the DM10.

I'm sorry if I mucked it up for you, but samples and midi notes are two different things but they work together. The DM10 lets you assign any of its on board sounds (or samples) to any of its midi notes. If you are using an old drum module as a TMI hooked into the DM10, we don't care about the sounds or samples on that old drum module (because we want to use the sounds of the DM10 and not the old drum module). What we do care about are the midi notes on that old drum module that are assigned to its trigger input jacks. As long as those match the extra notes in the DM10 you basically have added more trigger inputs to the DM10 module. Does that help or did I just muck it up even further? (sorry if I did  )

[Wolfsong]

Is there any kind of hardware available to mount the control pad (Alesis) to the frame of the DM10 Pro kit?

[Yeshai]

First I would like to say thank you for the great site. I am a drummer who believes electronic drums are the wave of the future and totally blow acoustic away.

I have a problem. I just bought the DM10 studio kit that comes with the DM10 studio module.

I also bought a  USB kit from alesis with the trigger IO.


Can (and if it can be done how?) Do I tell the DM10 module (which I connected via midi) to recognize the USB kit's pads and assign them different sounds?

I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

I want to make 1 monster kit and have the IO trigger additional sounds from the DM10 module.

Is it possible? and if so how? (I would like to tell you in answering me- youre a life saver! lol Ive been racking my head for a week. lol)