Setting Xtalk on the DM10

[Hellfire]

There is a lot of new users to edrums trying to figure out how to set Xtalk (crosstalk) settings on their DM10 modules. I would like this topic to be techniques on how to get the best xtalk results out of your Alesis DM10. Please feel free to share your techniques for adjusting xtalk on your kit. I will start with this:

I would first start with a module reset. See page 2 "RESETTING THE MODULE TO FACTORY DEFAULTS" From there I would upload the latest firmware from Alesis in to your DM10 module. If that doesn't get you where you want to be, you will need to adjust settings by hand.

To start, make sure you have your cross talk settings on all triggers set to zero. Adjusting nothing but Threshold settings, go through each trigger adjusting the threshold up as far as you can live with. You will still hear cross talk between triggers, but you should notice that is has been diminished.

Next we want to focus on ZoneTalk settings. This is the cross talk between adjacent zone (or the two zones in one input). This setting only works for adjacent zone (i.e. Tom#1 head & Tom#1 Rim). Only focus on one dual zone trigger at a time here. If you hit the head (or rim) of a trigger and you hear cross talk to the rim (or head) of the same trigger, raise the value up as little as possible to eliminate most (may not be 100% yet) of the cross talk. Never raise it past 4 or 5. At this point you should have 80-90% of the cross talk between adjacent zone resolved. Do this for each dual zone trigger.

Now we can go in and adjust the Xtalk Send and Receive at each trigger. Again, use these settings very sparingly. You should never go above a setting of 4 or 5. Anymore than that will cause drop out issues. This portions is a little bit of trial and error. You can try adjusting the Xtalk receive first on all the trigger you hear as cross talk, but make sure you are on that trigger. Meaning, if you hit tom#1 and hear a crash sound. Go to the crash trigger settings and adjust the xtalk receive from there. Again, don't go past xtalk settings of 4 or 5. If you are at 5 and still get a little cross talk, then go and adjust the xtalk send for the trigger that you are hitting. Meaning if you hit Tom#1 and the crash sounds just a little adjust the xtalk send of Tom#1. At this point your cross talk should be 95% or more gone. If you are still getting cross talk at this point, you should start looking at other options such as a snare stand and a stand for your hi-hat. Maybe even stuffing your rack tubes with foam.

Remember the sticks you use and how hard you play can effect your crosstalk. I would never play edrums with any stick larger then a 5A. I hope that helps.

[drumnoob]

Good idea Hell,

Here's my set up.

Kit: 2011 dm10 studio
Conversion: Roland mesh heads via axlmonkey way without cutting
Environment: 1/2" carpet on marmorette/concrete floor

Settings: 4 on Xtalk receive, 0-1 on Xtalk send
Threshhold: 10-15
Retrigger: factory default
Zone: factory default

[Bodhi]

I set mine to 7 on the floor toms to stop them from picking up a crash and haven't had any problem with it since. A setting of 5 didn't stop the bleed thru. Even a tiny bit at 6.

[vtdrummer]

I recommend that you not set them at 7, but go back to 4, 5 or 6, and then reduce the sensitivity on them all.  That should be better.

Just my .02

[FirstMM]

Hi Guys,

I am new on this forum and literally just registered just so I could say thank you to Hellfire for this post.

I have had the DM10 studio since Friday and have been banging my head against the proverbial bass wall since then because of cross talk.
No more - I wouldn't have thought that simply raising the threshold levels could yield such results!  Amazing!
After tweaking threshold and also setting a couple of xtalk receive and sends my kit is now crosstalk free and registers every hit!
It only took me about 40 minutes too which is, frankly, amazing.

Maybe someone should poll Alesis to change the default settings because I nearly didn't buy this kit because of the reported problems.  Then I regretted buying the kit because of my actual problems and now, finally, I am a happy bunny with no problems

So, thank you, once again, to Hellfire and also to DMDrummer for helping me out!  If there is a list anywhere of threads that people should read as a new owner, this should be on it!

[Hellfire]

Hi Guys,

I am new on this forum and literally just registered just so I could say thank you to Hellfire for this post.

I have had the DM10 studio since Friday and have been banging my head against the proverbial bass wall since then because of cross talk.
No more - I wouldn't have thought that simply raising the threshold levels could yield such results!  Amazing!
After tweaking threshold and also setting a couple of xtalk receive and sends my kit is now crosstalk free and registers every hit!
It only took me about 40 minutes too which is, frankly, amazing.

Maybe someone should poll Alesis to change the default settings because I nearly didn't buy this kit because of the reported problems.  Then I regretted buying the kit because of my actual problems and now, finally, I am a happy bunny with no problems

So, thank you, once again, to Hellfire and also to DMDrummer for helping me out!  If there is a list anywhere of threads that people should read as a new owner, this should be on it!

Welcome to the forum FirstMM. I'm glad you found this post helpful.

[drumday]

Welcome to the club, FMM.  These weren't problems, they were opportunities!   

It's a great kit, and a great community to be a part of.  I haven't found as much collaboration and enthusiasm for anything positive & benefitial in one place in years.

And I second your suggestion that HF's write up is essential reading.

[Coop]

Hi Hellfire,
You day "dont set x-send and recto 7 otherwise you'll get drop out". Is that why some triggers don't register when playing , say, fast hat with snare and kick at the same time?

[Hellfire]

Hi Hellfire,
You day "dont set x-send and recto 7 otherwise you'll get drop out". Is that why some triggers don't register when playing , say, fast hat with snare and kick at the same time?

It can be. Sometime users are getting double triggering because they have their retrigger setting too low. If that happens you will reach the 64 note polyphony limit of the drum module when play really fast. Other factors can cause this but, if you are having these issue you really should try what I have written in the first post to see if it resolves the issue. Cherry picking stuff out of the write-up above and not doing the whole process will only give you so so results. I hope that helps.

[Coop]

Thanks HF!    Will do this weekend and let you know!

[Willyvee]

Thanks for the great info- I didn't have a lot of cross talk, but the xtalk I did have was pretty bad.  I made the mistake of setting xtalk send and recieve up to 7 and found out that  that's not a good idea- boosting the threshold a bit seemed to do the trick (I also set the xtalk send and rec way back down to a reasonable level).

THe only audible cross talk I got was from the "floor tom" rims; however, I did notice that when I hit lightly on tom 1 and watch the display it sometimes shows a snare head trigger- my sense is that this is actually related to and caused by the well known tom 1 issue (I could be wrong there, it just seems like it is related).  It is great to benenfit from what others have tried- saves alot of time and angst and is much appreciated.
Once I get my kit to a really good place I will be happy to share the settings, etc..  Thanks for an awesome forum and lots of knowledge!

[tektoys]

hey all, i've set up everything to my liking but after i turn off the module i loose all my settings, i've made sure that i turned write protection off. if i understand correctly these settings are global and are not specific to any one kit correct? any ideas? thanks! oh and i just recieved it from alesis for the tom 1 issue repair


update: nevermind i should follow my own advice - RTFM
move along folks, nothing to see here, LMAO!

[drumday]

Sometimes just knowing that there's help available is all that's needed so you can fix the issue yourself!

[tektoys]

lol yeah, it also creates a certain awareness that is sometimes ignored because of too much enthusiasm and lack of rest that perhaps a search or simply reading could fix and a subsequent grilling by peers! you guys rock and the info here is worth a ton of beer, cheetos and chocolate!!

[drumday]

I've never read a response from anybody with a 'tude that felt it necessary to smack somebody for asking something that'd already been answered somewhere previously.  Drummers are supportive by nature; we sit in the back, holding the band together, glued to our seats, hidden behind all our stuff, while some guy up front gets all the attention.  We know what it's really like, when ya drop a stick & everybody notices, so we're not gonna hold enthusiasm against any of our kindred spirits.

Somethimes your question will simply get a reference to a link w/o much more, but it's never with an overt or implied, "hey dummy".  Really - nobody cares to pass judgment. 

[Mike T]

Dear Hellfire: many thanks for this link, and thanks also for your supportive information on my thread, DM10 unwanted triggering.  I checked the thresholds but then reset to factory setting.  I think (gulp!) it's worked.
thanks again,
Mike T

[RaiderDrums]

I haven't had to many problems with XTalk so far. I am VERY new to the whole aspect of eDrums and drumming in general, so I had no clue what was going on when I had a XTalk issue. I am definitely going to go home tonight and tweak some of the settings though. My only XTalk problem I am having right now is with my 3rd Tom/3rd Tom Rim. I'll be back to let you know how things went and if the issue was resolved.

[drumday]

Raider, it will be resolved.  Follow the steps, but understand the logic.  Don't violate that rule of never an xtalk setting at 7.  Zone first, then receive.  If the head is triggering when you strike the rim, go to the head receive and boost it.  If it still triggers, boost the zone.  If it still triggers, boost the receive.  If it still triggers, then go to the rim send and boost it.  This approach should result in settings no more than 5-6, and the send setting likely lower than receive.  Lastly, confirm that your thresholds are not too low.  They do not have to be set so low that they respond to the tap of a butterfly's wing.

[RaiderDrums]

Awesome. I will definitely follow the instructions all the way through because I really don't know what I am doing with this stuff otherwise.

I just received the DM10 last Wednesday, and I know there is an update for it, but have not applied it yet because I wanted to start playing on it ASAP. Lol. Should I do that before messing with those settings?

[drumday]

Should I do that before messing with those settings?

Yes.  I mean, I didn't...  But eventually (2 weeks into ownership), I did.  You must.  You will.  The firmware update is essential and provides much relief.  So you will be doing the update.  And then you will be redoing your settings which are now over adjusted for the improved firmware you're now using.

On the plus side, you're playing it, and you're making minor adjustments to the physical layout to get that perfect ergonomic comfort fit customized for you.  And all this fiddling with settings and then having to go back and do them again (+/- a number or 2) will simply make you skilled at adjusting on the fly (like in performance or at rehearsal).  And besides, we're constantly fiddling anyway, so you'll be able to fiddle faster!

[RaiderDrums]

Okay. So, I didn't get to update my module because I can't find the USB cable but, I did mess with all the settings and have no XTalk issues now. Although, i'll admit. I took the easy way out. I set the Threshold, send, and receive to 5 instead of doing it the picky way. But just that eliminated the problem I was having. So I guess it works out!

[Stagecustom]

Thank you so much Hellfire for throwing this up. I had HUGE crosstalk problems when i first set up my kit but now they are 99% diminished! You helped out huge! I'm SO thankful for this site!

[Trondster]

I removed much of the crosstalk from the stock kit, following this guide, and the kit was much better for it.

Tip: Don't adjust the sensitivity and threshold once for a pad and set it to a certain value after just one try - the pad behavior and crosstalk (especially between the head and the rim of the same pad) changes with the combination of sensitivity, threshold and crosstalk settings of both the rim and head triggers - I found several times that the head sensor started behaving quite differently by changing the sensitivity of the rim sensor and the other way around - try several combinations of settings.

To modify the settings I found it much easier to use a kit with more different sounding samples for the various drums - I used kit #11 - Evil Drums.

And - don't just try to change the sensitivity and various trigger settings - try modifying the rack and pads as well - changing the angle of the pad brackets to ensure that you don't hit the rim triggers right above the brackets did wonders for me..


Anyway - after tweaking the rack and converting to mesh heads, I found that I could greatly reduce the crosstalk settings and still be relatively free of crosstalk. When I first tried to remove crosstalk from the stock kit, I had mostly 4s and 5s for the Xtalk settings, and a couple of 6s (although 6 and 7 are not recommended).

..But - with my modified kit, here are my current trigger settings:
(Warning: Do NOT try to use these settings directly, unless you have set your kit up exactly the way I have done, dampened the rack in the exact same way, converted and modified the pads precisely the same, and have the same copy of the Dm10 module as I have. As well - this is work in progress - I am far from finished tuning the settings.)


Pad heads: Sensitivity, Xtalk Receive, Xtalk Send, ReTrigger, Threshold, Curve
Rims: Sensitivity, Xtalk Receive, Xtalk Send, Zone Xtalk, Curve

The cymbals are Surge cymbals, the snare and tom3 are 10", and the kick, tom1 and tom2 are 8".

Kick: S 35, XR 0, XS 0, RT 30, T 10, Log3
Snare head: S 22, XR 3, XS 3, RT 20, T 10, Log1
Snare rim: S 18, XR 4, XS 2, ZX 4, Log3
Tom1 head: S 20, XR 1, XS 4, RT 30, T 16, Log2
Tom1 rim: S 17, XR 3, XS 5, ZX 4, Log3
Tom2 head: S 17, XR 3, XS 4, RT 30, T 16, Log2
Tom2 rim: S 20, XR 3, XS 5, ZX 4, Log3
Tom3 head: S 22, XR 4, XS 3, RT 15, T 16, Log1
Tom3 rim: S 20, XR 4, XS 3, ZX 4, Log3
HH: S 18, XR 3, XS 3, RT 30, T 15, Log1
Crash: S 18, XR 1, XS 3, RT 30, T 10, Log2
Ride bow: S 24, XR 2, XS 5, RT 30, T 13, Log3
Ride bell: S 16, XR 5, XS 5, ZX 3, Log3
Crash 2: S 21, XR 2, XS 5, RT 30, T 15, Log2


The current problem is mostly the impact from the Tom1 and Tom2 rims as well as the cymbals - the impact from the hits go into the rack, causing the other sensors to vibrate, and the Ride bell seemed to easily pick up all other kinds of strokes. I'll see if I can't make some further rack modifications to dampen the vibrations and reduce the settings even more..
That is - with my current settings, there is hardly any crosstalk - the comments above are regarding why several settings had to be dialed up to 5..


But - do perform a mesh head conversion, if you haven't already! I have far less crosstalk and hotspotting, for not to mention better "feel"!
Especially the 8" toms perform much better regarding hotspotting - or lack thereof..


Edit: Note - I have since switched to Spline2/Spline3 for the pad heads - it works much better for me.

[Churchboydrummer]

For some reason, I'm having the hardest time with these setting. I did exactly what you told me. I set my thresholds and put all x talk at zero. At that point all my toms and my snare were registering backwards. Hit tom head and get the rim and vice verse except for snare, only the head works no matter where i hit. Then i adjusted my retrigger to 1 on everything. Then i adjusted my xtalk for each no more than 5. My snare rim will not register at all when i hit it. It just plays the head. What should my sensitivity be on? I have all sensitivities on 30. I'm totally lost on what to do now! I even reset the default and loaded new firmware.

[Trondster]

After setting all the xtalk settings to zero - now is the time to adjust the sensitivity and threshold settings. Do this before you start fiddling (too much) with the xtalk settings.

Do each drum, one at a time.
Set the sensitivity low if you can, where you get a full hit from a hard whack and a soft hit from a soft hit on the drum. Raise the threshold - you want the threshold high enough to lessen the impact of vibrations from other drums, but not so high that the drum won't register when you hit it.

When the problem is zone crosstalk (from the rim to the head of the same drum and vice versa) - remember that the crosstalk comes from the combination of settings for each zone. You might change the rim trigger settings, and observe that the head trigger now works better.

When you have set the sensitivity and threshold, it's time to adjust the xtalk settings - read the first post in this thread for more details.

For the xtalk settings:
The xtalk settings usually have to be at least 2, unless you have the pad on a separate stand. Avoid settings of 7 (maximum) at all costs, and if you can, avoid settings of 6. Best is 4 or lower, but 5 is ok.
zone xtalk - used to reduce xtalk between the different zones (head, rim) of the same pad. Used when hits on one zone of the pad registers on the other, and/or when hits are "dead" - hard hits on one zone registers as faint hits on the other zone.
xtalk send - used to lessen xtalk to other triggers (pads) (and other zones of the same pad) from the current trigger. Used if you have a single pad that affects other pads, especially if it affects several other pads.
xtalk receive - used to lessen xtalk from other triggers (pads) (and other zones of the same pad) to the current trigger. Used when hits to other pads are affecting the current trigger.

retrigger - used to avoid double hits on the current trigger - increase if you have double hits. This is the minimum number of milliseconds between each hit. This value must not be zero (it will retrigger by itself to the moon and back). 30 is reported to be a good value. Decrease if you hit the pad at over 30 beats per second - you might want a lower value for the snare.


For example, I had a snare with zone xtalk - I had a "dead" spot in the centre, where hard hits were registered as soft rim hits (I could see the rim trigger light up in the display). I solved this by increasing the threshold for the snare, decreasing the sensitivity of the rim and slightly increasing the zone xtalk setting. I fiddled a bit with the sensitivity for both the head and rim, and a bit with the threshold settings for the entire pad, and suddenly the trigger behaved just as it should.

I had two toms where the rims triggered all the time from other pads, as well as the ride, where the ride was triggered from almost all the other pads, and caused triggering to most other pads.
To solve this, I did the following:
Tom rim triggers: Decreased sensitivity, increased threshold, increased xtalk receive.
Ride: Decreased sensitivity, increased threshold, increased xtalk receive, increased xtalk send.

Voila!


And - lower sensitivity and higher threshold (if possible) is usually a better solution than very high xtalk settings.


As well - try dampening the rack and converting to mesh heads - both will greatly reduce xtalk.