Author Topic: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads  (Read 532 times)

Offline Iggford

Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« on: March 09, 2018, 10:46:35 AM »
Ok, so what I thought was going to be an easy switch-out turned out to be a bit of a mess.  I have been getting my Strike kit ready to be switched out with my DM10 kit in my band's practice space.  In the last couple of days, I have decided to leave the DM10 rack and pads in the space and keep my Strike at home (Practice is typically once a week, and I really want to be able to play my Strike kit more than that, so I'll keep it at home and pack it up for transport to gigs).

Anyway, I figured regardless of which kit ends up where, I want to transport the module between the two kits, so I'm working with the same sounds and settings either way.  I hooked my DM10 pads up to the Strike module at practice last night.

First off, I want to say that the snare, toms and kick responded almost as well as my Strike pads do.  We had a bit of a jam session in the middle of practice, and I feel like I was able to do things I couldn't do with my DM10, so I was VERY happy with that.

However, I had less success when it came to the cymbals.  The ride was perfect.  I have the original DM10 hi-hat set up as my second crash, and I'm using a Roland CY-5 hi-hat pad as a splash/effects extra.  To complete the setup, I'm using a Pro-X hi-hat.  The DM10 crash worked perfectly, as well as the CY-5.  I couldn't get the Alesis hi-hat, which was connected to the Crash 2 input, to trigger sound at all.  The Pro-X was a strange situation.  The pedal would trigger the "chick" sound, but the top cymbal would also not trigger sound at all. 

In a need to just get everything working in the moment, I connected the two pads that wouldn't trigger sound to my DM10 module and ran the headphone out to the Aux In on the Strike.  I just don't want to have to do this every time.

To get to my question (finally), has anyone else connected a Strike module to a DM10 kit?  I really went in assuming (bad idea, i know) that everything would just work, at least to some degree.  I have a bunch of inputs from my DM10 split, and I reverted everything back to the original configuration thinking that it may have had something to do with it.  I guess I can transport module and cymbals between the two kits if necessary, but I really didn't want to have to do it that way.  Has anyone tried the RealHat pedal with the Strike yet?  That may be an option to fix the hi-hat issue I was having, but I haven't gotten that far.

I brought the DM10 kit home for the week to make way for an event being held where we normally practice, so I may just set the two kits up side-by-side and try to work the issues out one at a time.

If anyone has any insight on anything I may have missed in my rather rushed attempt to make this all work, I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks for listening to my rambling!


--
Shawn

Offline Purpledc

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 06:28:25 PM »
that really is odd.  Are you sure you had them all hooked up to the proper inputs?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 06:30:35 PM by Purpledc »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 08:22:10 PM »
Ok, so what I thought was going to be an easy switch-out turned out to be a bit of a mess.  I have been getting my Strike kit ready to be switched out with my DM10 kit in my band's practice space.  In the last couple of days, I have decided to leave the DM10 rack and pads in the space and keep my Strike at home (Practice is typically once a week, and I really want to be able to play my Strike kit more than that, so I'll keep it at home and pack it up for transport to gigs).

Anyway, I figured regardless of which kit ends up where, I want to transport the module between the two kits, so I'm working with the same sounds and settings either way.  I hooked my DM10 pads up to the Strike module at practice last night.

First off, I want to say that the snare, toms and kick responded almost as well as my Strike pads do.  We had a bit of a jam session in the middle of practice, and I feel like I was able to do things I couldn't do with my DM10, so I was VERY happy with that.

However, I had less success when it came to the cymbals.  The ride was perfect.  I have the original DM10 hi-hat set up as my second crash, and I'm using a Roland CY-5 hi-hat pad as a splash/effects extra.  To complete the setup, I'm using a Pro-X hi-hat.  The DM10 crash worked perfectly, as well as the CY-5.  I couldn't get the Alesis hi-hat, which was connected to the Crash 2 input, to trigger sound at all.  The Pro-X was a strange situation.  The pedal would trigger the "chick" sound, but the top cymbal would also not trigger sound at all. 

In a need to just get everything working in the moment, I connected the two pads that wouldn't trigger sound to my DM10 module and ran the headphone out to the Aux In on the Strike.  I just don't want to have to do this every time.

To get to my question (finally), has anyone else connected a Strike module to a DM10 kit?  I really went in assuming (bad idea, i know) that everything would just work, at least to some degree.  I have a bunch of inputs from my DM10 split, and I reverted everything back to the original configuration thinking that it may have had something to do with it.  I guess I can transport module and cymbals between the two kits if necessary, but I really didn't want to have to do it that way.  Has anyone tried the RealHat pedal with the Strike yet?  That may be an option to fix the hi-hat issue I was having, but I haven't gotten that far.

I brought the DM10 kit home for the week to make way for an event being held where we normally practice, so I may just set the two kits up side-by-side and try to work the issues out one at a time.

If anyone has any insight on anything I may have missed in my rather rushed attempt to make this all work, I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks for listening to my rambling!


--
Shawn

Don't know what could be the issue, but have you considered leaving your DM10 module hooked up to your DM10 kit and just using a Midi cable to connect to the Strike module? This most likely would be your best option. Basically you would be using the Strike module as just a sound box. That way you shouldn't have to mess with trigger settings between modules. Just a thought.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2018, 08:10:35 PM »
Don't know what could be the issue, but have you considered leaving your DM10 module hooked up to your DM10 kit and just using a Midi cable to connect to the Strike module? This most likely would be your best option. Basically you would be using the Strike module as just a sound box. That way you shouldn't have to mess with trigger settings between modules. Just a thought.
Out of curiosity, how "Plug n' Play" would that be?
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline rhysT

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 10:46:53 AM »
Has anyone tried the RealHat pedal with the Strike yet?  That may be an option to fix the hi-hat issue I was having, but I haven't gotten that far.
--
Shawn

I'm also interested to find out how compatible a RealHat pedal may be for controlling the Strike hi-hat, as its resistance range varies between zero & 80 Kohms (similar to a Roland FD-8 pedal).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 10:52:13 AM by rhysT »

Offline Iggford

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 11:27:22 PM »
Ok...  Sorry for the lack of response since my last post.  I've finally been able to work with both kits to see what I can get done.  I've got to have all of this done by Thursday, so I worked as much the last couple days as possible. 

Now, I'll try to cover all the responses you guys were kind enough to give!

that really is odd.  Are you sure you had them all hooked up to the proper inputs?

I checked and double-checked all of my inputs when I had the module connected at practice last week.  I don't think it was necessarily pads alone, though.  I had a strange thing happen.  I had instances where one cymbal would work on one input but not another.  That's why I ended up getting the best working situation then work around the ones that wouldn't trigger.


Don't know what could be the issue, but have you considered leaving your DM10 module hooked up to your DM10 kit and just using a Midi cable to connect to the Strike module? This most likely would be your best option. Basically you would be using the Strike module as just a sound box. That way you shouldn't have to mess with trigger settings between modules. Just a thought.

That was actually a genius thought!  So I took your suggestion and connected the MIDI OUT on my DM10 to the MIDI IN on the Strike.  I did have a few pads working, but I had to match the notes out from the DM10 to the notes that the Strike instruments are set to for all the others.

I went this direction so that I could just use the default startup kit on my DM10 without having to change any settings.  I could also (theoretically, still have to test this) use any preset or user kit on the Strike without having to change any MIDI settings.

I did run into the problem of the crash, ride and hi-hat notes on the DM10 being locked.  The ride worked perfectly with the MIDI connection, but to work around the crash, I split the PERC2 input out to both crashes, then set the head and rim MIDI out notes to match the bow notes for Crashes 2 and 3.  Crash 1 was simply matched up to PERC4 on the DM10.

Now, the hi-hat was a more complicated.  The locked MIDI out notes only left me with one option, which leads me to the next discovery:


I'm also interested to find out how compatible a RealHat pedal may be for controlling the Strike hi-hat, as its resistance range varies between zero & 80 Kohms (similar to a Roland FD-8 pedal).

Since I couldn't modify the MIDI OUT notes on the DM10, I was going to connect my Pro-X to the Strike module.  However, the top pad wouldn't trigger.  I was so far in that I was trying to have this complete without having to transport any pads between the two kits, just the module.  So, I used the original hi-hat pad for my DM10 kit along with the RealHat pedal.  Connected them directly to the Strike, and amazingly, it worked like a charm!  I haven't had a chance to calibrate the pedal, but I probably won't do that until I get it moved back to the practice space.  But I don't anticipate any issues there.


Out of curiosity, how "Plug n' Play" would that be?

Now that I've done the initial setup of MIDI OUT notes on my DM10, All I (should) have to do when I get to my practice kit is connect the MIDI cable between the two modules and connect the two hi-hat cables to the Strike.  Then, technically, it is basically "Plug n' Play" from this point on.  I can't figure any problems from here, but I'll have to wait until I can test it at practice.  I'll put out any fires that arise at that point, and I'll update with my results after I get to try the setup in action.

I was a little worried I would lose the sensitivity improvements with the Strike by running through the DM10 first, since I have noticed that the dynamics are exponentially better with the Strike.  However, I am starting to see that the dynamics are improved in part by the amazing quality of the samples in the Strike module.  While I could tell that the pads weren't quite as responsive as the Strike, the quality of the samples allows for much more variation in dynamics.  I'm still very impressed!

Thanks to everyone for helping me get this figured out!  Now I should be able to leave my DM10 kit at the practice space, but transport my Strike module between the two kits.  I just want to be able to get some time in on my Strike more than once a week.  Our string of gigs starts on March 30, so I hope to have some videos to share once we get going!


--
Shawn

Offline rhysT

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 08:33:29 AM »
So, I used the original hi-hat pad for my DM10 kit along with the RealHat pedal.  Connected them directly to the Strike, and amazingly, it worked like a charm!  I haven't had a chance to calibrate the pedal, but I probably won't do that until I get it moved back to the practice space.  But I don't anticipate any issues there.

That's some good news for DM10 kit owners who might want to add a Strike module to their rig as I'm considering.

If the Strike hi-hat controller uses a force-sensing resistor (FSR) like this 1.5" square one (https://www.pololu.com/product/1645) its operating resistance range would be similar to a RealHat pedal.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 04:55:57 PM by rhysT »

Offline Hellfire

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 11:38:36 AM »
Good to see you got a solution that works!

Yes, most of the improved dynamics of the Strike is all within the resolution of the instruments. The MIDI output "range" (meaning 0-128) is exactly the same between the DM10 and the Strike. I knew it was just a matter of matching the MIDI note numbers.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Purpledc

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 08:36:05 AM »
That's really cool.  I didn't know you could piggy back modules.  I wonder if that means you can directly sample the instruments from another module and store them into the strike as a separate instrument? 

Offline rhysT

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 09:58:53 AM »
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 10:26:49 AM by rhysT »

Offline Iggford

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 10:28:54 AM »
That's some good news for DM10 kit owners who might want to add a Strike module to their rig as I'm considering.

I was pretty excited to learn this also.  Having had so many hi-hat issues, I do like that there's an easy option as an alternative to the Strike hi-hat that I can implement in a pinch without having to buy any more equipment.  I'm still dialing in the hi-hat settings for my Strike hi-hat, and it does work really well.  I hope to be satisfied with it by the time I'm done.  I finally got a full session of playing time in on it last night, so I was able to make some progress getting it to work the way I want and need it to.  But at least I know that if it just won't cooperate, as long as I keep my RealHat pedal handy, I can work around it if necessary.


Yes, most of the improved dynamics of the Strike is all within the resolution of the instruments. The MIDI output "range" (meaning 0-128) is exactly the same between the DM10 and the Strike. I knew it was just a matter of matching the MIDI note numbers.

Once I got the concept in my head, it went very smoothly.  I could have probably gone all-MIDI by matching the locked DM10 crash and hi-hat notes to the incoming notes on the Strike.  That's also assuming that those notes aren't also locked on the Strike.  I didn't even check to see, though, since the MIDI notes seem to also be kit-specific.  I didn't want to have to change that much more around every time I build a kit.  But for what I need it for, it seems to work perfectly.  For gigs, I will use just the entire Strike kit, so I won't need to chain them like that.


That's really cool.  I didn't know you could piggy back modules.  I wonder if that means you can directly sample the instruments from another module and store them into the strike as a separate instrument?

I've done some MIDI triggering between modules in the past, but never quite to this extent.  My brain was making it sound a lot more complicated than it really was, and once I got going, it was simple.  For sampling sounds into the Strike, I don't even think you'd need a MIDI connection.  With all pads hooked to the module you want to sample FROM, you could come out of either audio output directly into the AUX port on the Strike.  I sampled some music to make loops from a few nights ago using the AUX IN connection.  It works pretty well.  I've seen a comment somewhere that the loop editor leaves some to be desired.  It is quite simple, and does take a couple tries to get the start and end positions in the right spots.  But for samples from another module, I think it would be adequate at least.


--
Shawn

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 08:44:20 PM »
That's really cool.  I didn't know you could piggy back modules.  I wonder if that means you can directly sample the instruments from another module and store them into the strike as a separate instrument?
Absolutely. Just be sure not to have the output too hot and one could record directly from any module into the Strike, using its sampler.
Alesis DM10X Mesh

Offline Mrfootin

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 10:06:06 PM »
I bought a DM10 MKll kit a few weeks ago and swapped out the DM10 module for a Strike module and for the most part the DM10 MKll parts work better with the Strike except for 2 issues. The first was the Pro X hi-hat which I couldn’t get any sound from the top hat. The cymbal worked as a crash but not a sound when hooked up as hi-hat. I spent hours swapping out cables, TRS to TS.... finally in testing it turned into a blessing in disguise when I replaced the top hat with a 12" crash WOW! It not only worked it worked well and that annoying loud thumping of the stick on the cymbal was now to a level I could live with. I honestly don’t think I could have pounded out 16th notes on that damn thing very long before tossing it. After playing around with washers and settings I have the 12" crash functioning perfectly as a hi-hat. They work great now, chick, bark, splash, half open, closed.... just great. The other issue and I’m hoping to have it fixed was the kick drum. I spent 4 hours today messing with module adjustments, head tightness, beater length.... you name it and I keep having missed triggers. The only way I can get near 100% triggering is to max out the sensitivity, lower the retrigger to under 8 and the threshold to under 10. The problem then is it sounds like shit with some faint machinegunning. If it turn up the retrigger I start missing hits, sometimes i can hit the kick and get no trigger sound at all until I change my speed or even just stop for a second and go back to the same BPM. 10-20 missed notes in a row. Thing is the hits are showing on the display just no sound. The only way to get consistent triggers is lowering those settings “too" low and then putting up with the shitty sound. So my “FIX” for this is I ordered a Strike kick drum. Not exactly the fix I was hoping for but I saw no other option at this point. If anyone thinks I missed something let me know. I’ll repost on Wed or Thur after I get the new kick drum hooked up.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:53:15 PM by Mrfootin »

Offline Iggford

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 09:30:00 AM »
I was having that exact problem with my Pro-X!  It's just strange how the cymbal would work as a crash but not as the hi-hat as intended.  To compound that, the 12" hi-hat pad that came with my DM10 kit worked the opposite way.  I had converted it to a crash when I bought the Pro-X.  It wouldn't work as a crash on the Strike, but works very well as the hi-hat.  Very strange.

I have a similar problem with my DM10 kick drum.  It doesn't trigger very well with the Strike.  I did tweak some settings and made it passable for practice.  I have the entire Strike kit, so I won't have the problem for gigs, and I have it working well enough for rehearsal.  There is a world of difference between the two, though.


--
Shawn

Offline Mrfootin

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2018, 09:57:28 PM »
I found the problem was I was using a TRS cable. I switched it to TS cable and it works great. This was “after" I got the strike kick and still had the same problem. I can see needing a TRS and using a TS cable but you can usually use a TRS cable when only a TS cable is needed.

Offline Iggford

Re: Strike Module w/ DM10 Pads
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2018, 09:05:44 AM »
I'll have to check all my cables.  It is strange how backwards it seems.  I haven't paid much attention to the cabling for my DM10, but that could be what's leading to my issues.  From this, it sounds like cables could be playing a part in my cymbal issues as well.

Thanks for the info!  I will try it at our rehearsal tomorrow evening!


--
Shawn