Author Topic: [DM10] THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)  (Read 7515 times)

Offline Hellfire

[DM10] THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« on: January 02, 2014, 04:11:50 PM »
VELOCITY SWITCHING BETWEEN LAYERS “A” AND “B”
(Pseudo Three Zone Triggering With One Input)
[REDbox users please note that screens may be labeled/look differently within your module]

Theory of Operation:

How would you like have a three zone snare drum (head, cross stick, & rim shot) with only one TRS cable and only one dual zone trigger? Well it isn’t possible to have a true three zone trigger (with one TRS cable) on the Alesis DM10, but we can fake it with velocity switching. For the purpose of this example we will focus on the snare rim. So, a piezo/piezo dual zone trigger must be used. The theory behind this trick is that cross stick tends to be a softer hit (lower velocity) than a rim shot (higher velocity). So, when hitting the rim at lower velocities we want to trigger a cross stick sound. As we hit the rim harder we want the sound to change to a rim shot sound. This type of set-up is possible on the DM10 at the instrument level. This means you will need to set this up for each kit you want to have a pseudo three zone snare on.

Set-up:

• First thing you will need to do is decide on a kit that you want a three zone snare. Than you want to locate the three sounds you wish to use together. For this example we will be using “Balt6x13” for the snare head, “Balt6x13 RS” for the rim shot, and “Balt6x13XStk” for the cross stick sound.

• Press the “INST” button and then “F1” (INST) to bring up the instrument edit mode. Scroll to “SnrHd” and go ahead and set the head sound (“Balt6x13”, layer “A”) on the Snare head zone of your trigger. Make sure you have nothing assigned to layer “B”. We are done with the head set-up. Here’s what this should look like:


• Cursor back up to the “SnrHd” and using the scroll wheel (or the DOWN, UP buttons), scroll to “SnrRim”. Set Layer “A” to “Balt6x13 RS”. Here what your screen should look like:


• Now press the “INST” button to change to layer “B”. Set that instrument to ”Balt6x13XStk”. Your screen should look like this:


• While still on “SnrRim” layer “B”, press the “F2” (LVL) and set the “Level” to 80 and “Decay” to 50. Your screen should look like this:


• Next press “F4” (MORE), then press “F2” (DYN). Set “Vel>Decay” to -99, set “Vel>Level” to 60. Your screen should look like this:


• Press “F4” (BACK) and you should be back at the instrument select screen. Press the “INST” button to change back to layer “A”. Your screen should look like this:


• Now, press the “F2” (LVL) and set the “Level” to 99 and “Decay” to 01. Your screen should look like this:


• Next press “F4” (MORE), then press “F2” (DYN). Set “Vel>Decay” to 99, set “Vel>Level” to 99. Your screen should look like this:


• Press “F3” (OTHR) and make sure Playback is set to “POLY”.


At this point you should now have a pseudo three zone snare. Your lower velocity hits on the rim of your snare should now trigger layer “B” ”Balt6x13XStk” which is your cross stick sound. As you hit the rim harder, it should now gradually change to layer “A” “Balt6x13 RS” which is your rim shot sound.

Additional Thoughts

You might be asking yourself, can I do this with my toms as well? Yes, you can. The DM10 does have a set of sounds that you can use with your tom to have pseudo three zone toms as well. There is a small catch. The only true tom rim sound in the DM10 is the “Temp Rim” sound. For that reason you will need to change the pitch and tone of the “Temp Rim” for each of the different tom sizes you have in your set-up so it more closely sounds like the given size you are trying to achieve.

This technique can be used all over your drum kit. Just think of the things you can do with cymbals and synth sounds. The possibilities are only limited by your imagination.

Background/related links:
Alesis DM10 Pro/Studio
DM10: Vel>Filter
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 10:47:27 AM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Th3R00st3r

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 10:58:49 AM »
Thank you for this. Just this tip opens up a whole new realm of possibilities that I hadn't even thought of. Of course, I haven't even had my kit a month yet.  :D
th3r00st3r-Alesis DM10 Studio w/mesh head conversion (billy blast 2ply) and snare stand.

Offline Hellfire

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 01:55:43 PM »
Thank you for this. Just this tip opens up a whole new realm of possibilities that I hadn't even thought of. Of course, I haven't even had my kit a month yet.  :D

This is actually one of my favorite tricks to program on the DM10. It adds a lot to the realism to the performance. It was born out of the fact that Roland drum modules have three zone triggering on their snare triggers. The happy accident here is, that using Alesis we can do the same with the tom triggers.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline JimmyB

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 03:49:26 PM »
Good stuff. Thx, keep it coming
JimmyB

Offline Pier

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 09:58:29 AM »
Thank you very much Phil, this one is fantastic. Cannot wait to check it out on my DM10 snare...   ;)

Really like this new "technical" part of the forum (I was kinda "absent" for a long time due to my parents' health problems, but now I hope to gain a little more spare time for music).
Cheers

Offline Th3R00st3r

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 11:00:17 AM »
Quote
I was kinda "absent" for a long time due to my parents' health problems, but now I hope to gain a little more spare time for music

Hopefully that meant that your parents are doing better!
th3r00st3r-Alesis DM10 Studio w/mesh head conversion (billy blast 2ply) and snare stand.

Offline Pier

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 02:51:10 AM »
Thanks, my parents went out of the hospital (at regular intervals) so now we're at home and find a sort of "new balance" in our lives -- including some spare time to hopefully dedicate to passions and hobbies (hmmmm.... drums...??  ;D ).
Life is different when one gets a certain age -- just a matter of organization, I suppose.

Thanks for your interest, bye!  ;)

Offline MBdrummer

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 12:10:10 PM »
This is awesome! I thought I had stumbled upon something like this but never had the settings tweaked correctly. Thank you!
Alesis DM10 Studio with mesh head conversion, Crush Drums and Percussion Artist, Vic Firth Artist, Istanbul Cymbals Artist

Offline Khes74

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 05:39:57 PM »
My Question is why can you not put Piccolo 1 as layer B? Without it, snare rolls and general realism seem to be worse.

Offline Hellfire

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 07:33:24 PM »
My Question is why can you not put Piccolo 1 as layer B? Without it, snare rolls and general realism seem to be worse.

Who stated you can't use Piccolo 1? You can use any sounds you want using this technique. I happened to pick what I knew to be a complete set of snare sounds. Just make sure the you edit your other sound to match somewhat closely to the Piccolo 1 snare sound.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Khes74

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 08:45:18 PM »
 :o You said to have nothing assigned to layer B so I assumed... Well none the less awesome work! Next thing I would love to see is the Choke on any dual zone cymbal using only the Dm10 Module.  :D

Offline Hellfire

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 09:42:55 PM »
:o You said to have nothing assigned to layer B so I assumed... Well none the less awesome work! Next thing I would love to see is the Choke on any dual zone cymbal using only the Dm10 Module.  :D

I see what you are referring to now (I had to re-read the post). That statement was made because at the time I put this write up together some users would change an instrument sound and didn't realize there was a sound also assigned to the B layer. Which means they didn't hear the change in sound they were expecting. By keeping layer B clear, it is easier to hear how all three sounds goes together in this given example. Remember this is just one example and there is nothing that doesn't state you can't add a sound to the snare head on layer B. Unless of course you decide to use the velocity layering trick on the snare head as well.  ;)
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline brandonstelly

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 11:56:17 PM »
YOU ARE THE BOMB DOT COM!  What a great concept!  I can't wait to try!

Offline elusivesolution

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 04:51:55 PM »
Definitely a cool idea. Now I don't have to choose whether I want a cross stick sound or a rim shot; I can have both! This really gets me thinking about ways to use velocity switching to get some really dynamic sounds. Thanks, Hellfire!

Offline Khes74

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 09:09:18 AM »
I wonder if you can do this with a VST....

Offline Hellfire

Re: THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2014, 09:28:38 AM »
I wonder if you can do this with a VST....

It would need to be done within the VST software itself. That's because the DM10 doesn't send out multiple midi notes when this trick is used.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Jetjazz

Re: [DM10] THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 08:33:06 PM »
I did this mostly to get a good rim click which it does.  The only issue is that when to strike the rim for a rim click I hear the snare head as well.  Any setting ideas greatly appreciated!

Offline Hellfire

Re: [DM10] THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 09:19:40 PM »
I did this mostly to get a good rim click which it does.  The only issue is that when to strike the rim for a rim click I hear the snare head as well.  Any setting ideas greatly appreciated!

And I would bet you had this issue long before you attempted the three zone trick. Your issue has to do with cross talk. I would highly suggest you view this topic:

Setting Xtalk on the DM10

BTW, you should never have cross talk set to 7 (or 6 if you can help it)
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Trondster

Re: [DM10] THREE ZONE SNARE (with one dual zone trigger!)
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2016, 10:33:26 AM »
...Except Zone Xtalk, which sometimes has to be set to 6 or 7.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.