Crimson module to DM10 Module Triggering Issue

[Failed Muso]

I finally got around to hooking up my DM10 module to my Crimson module via MIDI today, only to find that it doesn't work 

I'm connecting the MIDI Out of the Crimson to the MIDI In of the DM10, setting the DM10 to receive on channel 10 and setting the external MIDI to control local sounds as per the DM10 manual instructions. But when I strike a pad, no sound is triggered, no matter what MIDI note I try. My first thought was a dodgy MIDI cable, so I tested it and it was fine. I then connected my old DTXpress module in place of the DM10 and the Crimson triggered that just fine, so the Crimson was clearly transmitting MIDI.

The next thing I tried was to connect my Alesis PercPad in place of the Crimson and put the DM10 back in place. This worked as expected with the PercPad triggering the DM10's internal sounds. I then swapped out the PercPad and put the DTXpress module in, hooked up a pad to the DTXpress and everything worked as expected with the DTXpress triggering the DM10's internal sounds.

It is only when I connect the Crimson module to the DM10 that I get nothing.

I am sure i have run out of options to try as ever other thing works except this pairing.

Any suggestions?

[rhysT]

I finally got around to hooking up my DM10 module to my Crimson module via MIDI today, only to find that it doesn't work 

It is only when I connect the Crimson module to the DM10 that I get nothing.

I am sure i have run out of options to try as every other thing works except this pairing.

What the ,  that is weird!

FYI, the DM10 LocalCont setting needs to be 'ON' to allow received Midi In signals to trigger the module sounds. At least that's what I noticed with a cable connecting Midi Out & In together. Although that shouldn't be the cause of your problem as the PercPad and DTXpress are able to trigger the DM10 sounds OK. 

BTW unlike other edrum modules, the DM10 inputs can trigger their sound generator/s when LocalCont is set to 'OFF' (in the UTIL/MIDI settings).

[rhysT]

I finally got around to hooking up my DM10 module to my Crimson module via MIDI today, only to find that it doesn't work 

It is only when I connect the Crimson module to the DM10 that I get nothing.

I am sure i have run out of options to try as every other thing works except this pairing.

It could be worth trying to Midi daisy-chain the 3 modules with DTXpress (set to Midi Thru) between the Crimson and DM10 modules. If that works, you can let Alesis know.

[Failed Muso]

I finally got around to hooking up my DM10 module to my Crimson module via MIDI today, only to find that it doesn't work 

It is only when I connect the Crimson module to the DM10 that I get nothing.

I am sure i have run out of options to try as every other thing works except this pairing.

It could be worth trying to Midi daisy-chain the 3 modules with DTXpress (set to Midi Thru) between the Crimson and DM10 modules. If that works, you can let Alesis know.

I'll give that a go tomorrow. I've raised a ticket over at the community,alesis.com site to see if that garners any response. One thing I did notice today when trying various things was that when I had the MIDI cable connected to the Crimson, there was a very faint hum that I picked up in my cans. It stopped as soon as I pulled the MIDI plug out.

I did also try to find a "Service Menu" function on the module. I discovered that powering up whilst holding the Start/Stop and Record buttons down, I got a display that read "Date" and "Serial Number" both followed by a series of dashes but that was all. Just wondered if there was a diagnostic menu but couldn't find anything else.

I'll report back if I discover anything new.

[Failed Muso]

It could be worth trying to Midi daisy-chain the 3 modules with DTXpress (set to Midi Thru) between the Crimson and DM10 modules. If that works, you can let Alesis know.

Ok, so I couldn't wait. I went down and tried this and lo & behold, with the DTXpress module in the middle, the Crimson now triggers the DM10! Really very strange!

I hooked up the Crimson MIDI Out to the DTXpress MIDI In. Then the DTXpress MIDI Out (internally set to merge and pass thru) to the DM10 MIDI In. Because the DTXpress doesn't have a specific MIDI Thru setting, I am wondering if the triggering is being sent by the DTXpress, which is being triggered by the Crimson, rather than the DM10 being triggered by the MIDI Out data from the Crimson itself? I have an old Roland SC88 module that has a dedicated MIDI Thru port, so I might give that a go to see if that allows it to still work.

It's all very odd indeed. The Crimson is clearly sending data out of its MIDI Out port, and the DM10 is clearly receiving data at its MIDI In port, but when directly connected, the two won't play together nicely and I'm baffled

[rhysT]

Ok, so I couldn't wait. I went down and tried this and lo & behold, with the DTXpress module in the middle, the Crimson now triggers the DM10! Really very strange!

I hooked up the Crimson MIDI Out to the DTXpress MIDI In. Then the DTXpress MIDI Out (internally set to merge and pass thru) to the DM10 MIDI In. Because the DTXpress doesn't have a specific MIDI Thru setting, I am wondering if the triggering is being sent by the DTXpress, which is being triggered by the Crimson, rather than the DM10 being triggered by the MIDI Out data from the Crimson itself? I have an old Roland SC88 module that has a dedicated MIDI Thru port, so I might give that a go to see if that allows it to still work.

It's all very odd indeed. The Crimson is clearly sending data out of its MIDI Out port, and the DM10 is clearly receiving data at its MIDI In port, but when directly connected, the two won't play together nicely and I'm baffled

FYI, I've attached a diagram of typical Midi Out and In ports to maybe help sort out your interesting puzzle!

[Failed Muso]

Ok, so this is puzzling the sh*t out of me, so I just replaced the DTXpress with my Roland SC-88VL in it's place. This module features a true MIDI Thru port that only passes through data received directly at the corresponding MIDI In port.

And, as before, it works. The Crimson's MIDI output is being passed through the Roland module and into the DM10 and triggering the DM10 sounds. But connect the Crimson to the DM10 directly and I get nothing. Except that very low buzzing sound from the audio outputs of the Crimson when the two are directly connect via MIDI.

[rhysT]

Ok, so this is puzzling the sh*t out of me, so I just replaced the DTXpress with my Roland SC-88VL in it's place. This module features a true MIDI Thru port that only passes through data received directly at the corresponding MIDI In port.

And, as before, it works. The Crimson's MIDI output is being passed through the Roland module and into the DM10 and triggering the DM10 sounds. But connect the Crimson to the DM10 directly and I get nothing. Except that very low buzzing sound from the audio outputs of the Crimson when the two are directly connect via MIDI.

Hey Rob, your problem could be due to a ground loop between the Crimson and DM10 modules that doesn't occur when an extra device is inserted in the midi path. 
Check out this useful info: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/gndloop.htm

[Failed Muso]

Ok, so this is puzzling the sh*t out of me, so I just replaced the DTXpress with my Roland SC-88VL in it's place. This module features a true MIDI Thru port that only passes through data received directly at the corresponding MIDI In port.

And, as before, it works. The Crimson's MIDI output is being passed through the Roland module and into the DM10 and triggering the DM10 sounds. But connect the Crimson to the DM10 directly and I get nothing. Except that very low buzzing sound from the audio outputs of the Crimson when the two are directly connect via MIDI.

Hey Rob, your problem could be due to a ground loop between the Crimson and DM10 modules that doesn't occur when an extra device is inserted in the midi path. 
Check out this useful info: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/gndloop.htm

That was what I was thinking. I'm now conversing with Alesis support so we'll see if it is something that can be fixed or replaced.

[rhysT]

Hey Rob, your problem could be due to a ground loop between the Crimson and DM10 modules that doesn't occur when an extra device is inserted in the midi path. 
Check out this useful info: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/gndloop.htm

That was what I was thinking. I'm now conversing with Alesis support so we'll see if it is something that can be fixed or replaced.

As the Crimson modules are made by Medeli, I wouldn't be too optimistic about Alesis fixing the problem.

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

[Failed Muso]

Hey Rob, your problem could be due to a ground loop between the Crimson and DM10 modules that doesn't occur when an extra device is inserted in the midi path. 
Check out this useful info: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/gndloop.htm

That was what I was thinking. I'm now conversing with Alesis support so we'll see if it is something that can be fixed or replaced.

As the Crimson modules are made by Medeli, I wouldn't be too optimistic about Alesis fixing the problem.

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

The Crimson unit is covered by warranty so could be replaced if faulty. Or the loop issue could be at the DM10 end, and then I'm screwed as that's an old prototype, so a filter/eliminator is needed.

[rhysT]

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

The Crimson unit is covered by warranty so could be replaced if faulty. Or the loop issue could be at the DM10 end, and then I'm screwed as that's an old prototype, so a filter/eliminator is needed.

If you can find a local music shop with a demo Crimson kit, you may be able to connect the DM10 to it and verify which module (& power supply) is causing the problem.

[Failed Muso]

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

The Crimson unit is covered by warranty so could be replaced if faulty. Or the loop issue could be at the DM10 end, and then I'm screwed as that's an old prototype, so a filter/eliminator is needed.

If you can find a local music shop with a demo Crimson kit, you may be able to connect the DM10 to it and verify which module (& power supply) is causing the problem.

I thought about that, but none of the bricks and mortar stores around here (there aren't many) have any Alesis kits in stock. Given that the DM10 is now discontinued, it makes the likelihood even less

[rhysT]

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

The 1-in/2-out MIDI Thru Box should be useful for triggering a Mimic & DM10 module from your Crimson kit.

[Failed Muso]

Another option to consider is this Midi Thru gizmo: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

The 1-in/2-out MIDI Thru Box should be useful for triggering a Mimic & DM10 module from your Crimson kit.

I'll tell you one thing I've found during all of this. I'm really not a big fan of the drum sounds in the DM10. Sure, it might have more depth in terms of samples, etc. but the Crimson, to my ears any way, sounds more realistic on acoustic kits. Overall, it just sounds nicer.

But niether of them sound as great as Superior Drummer. That just kicks ass :-)