Author Topic: 2-zone cymbals and hi-hat with DM10 X and Trigger IO  (Read 2453 times)

2-zone cymbals and hi-hat with DM10 X and Trigger IO
« on: October 19, 2016, 01:09:36 PM »
Hello,

I have been trying really hard to achieve the following: Have a (REAL) two-zone cymbal using the DMPAD14" that come with the standard DM10 X Mesh kit.

My ultimate goal is to have a 2-zone hi-hat for Tip and Edge sounds. I am using Addictive Drums 2.0 so it is very easy to access those two sounds from any two inputs.

However, I want those 2 inputs to be on the SAME cymbal, and I want them to actually correspond to hitting the cymbal on the edge or on the tip. I can live with the EDGE sound being not sensitive to velocity, but I would prefer both triggers to be velocity-sensitive. But worst case scenario, I don;t care if the second zone is SWITCH type.

I spend my afternoon trying combinations of different cables, to different inputs, and using all combination of the Trigger settings on the Trigger IO. I could not achieve this very simple thing of having a 2-zone cymbal. Always the zones interfered with one another, regardless of where I hit it.

I want to achieve something like the 3-zone ride that Alesis has already in the module.

So I ask, is there any tutorial, on how to achieve a 2-zone sound using Alesis DMPAD12 and DMPAD14 and using Trigger IO or any other thing? I have all possible cables neccessary: MIDI cables, TRS, 2xTR, Splitter, Y Cable - you name it.

Last question: If, (something very probable) Alesis cymbals do not support two-zone Piezo-piezo kind of input, (so that both inputs are velocity-sensitive) , do you know of any cymbal that does that, so I can use it as a hi-hat?

Thanks!!!

Online Hellfire

Re: 2-zone cymbals and hi-hat with DM10 X and Trigger IO
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 03:15:36 PM »
Hello,

I have been trying really hard to achieve the following: Have a (REAL) two-zone cymbal using the DMPAD14" that come with the standard DM10 X Mesh kit.

My ultimate goal is to have a 2-zone hi-hat for Tip and Edge sounds. I am using Addictive Drums 2.0 so it is very easy to access those two sounds from any two inputs.

However, I want those 2 inputs to be on the SAME cymbal, and I want them to actually correspond to hitting the cymbal on the edge or on the tip. I can live with the EDGE sound being not sensitive to velocity, but I would prefer both triggers to be velocity-sensitive. But worst case scenario, I don;t care if the second zone is SWITCH type.

I spend my afternoon trying combinations of different cables, to different inputs, and using all combination of the Trigger settings on the Trigger IO. I could not achieve this very simple thing of having a 2-zone cymbal. Always the zones interfered with one another, regardless of where I hit it.

I want to achieve something like the 3-zone ride that Alesis has already in the module.

So I ask, is there any tutorial, on how to achieve a 2-zone sound using Alesis DMPAD12 and DMPAD14 and using Trigger IO or any other thing? I have all possible cables neccessary: MIDI cables, TRS, 2xTR, Splitter, Y Cable - you name it.

Last question: If, (something very probable) Alesis cymbals do not support two-zone Piezo-piezo kind of input, (so that both inputs are velocity-sensitive) , do you know of any cymbal that does that, so I can use it as a hi-hat?

Thanks!!!

Believe it or not, what you are trying to do (on an Alesis module) isn't easy.

As you found out the best solution would be a piezo/piezo (bow/edge) type cymbal. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an off the shelf piezo/piezo bow/edge cymbal trigger that one can buy. You do not want to use the Hi-hat inputs on either the DM10 or Trigger I/O as they are wired single zone only (I know 100% the DM10 is, but I don't remember on the Trigger IO). Also, do not use the ride input on the Trigger I/O as that is hardwired piezo/switch unless you don't mind not having velocity on your edge zone. With that said you could first try plugging a two zone (piezo/switch) bow/edge cymbal trigger in the Ride input of the Trigger I/O. Of course you will need to set the midi notes numbers to something Addictive Drums can use.

If you really want velocity on both zones of your hi-hat there is two different ways I can think of doing this:

A) If you are willing to use a standard (piezo/piezo) drum trigger pad as a hi-hat, this shouldn't be that difficult to pull off.
or
B) You DIY your own solution for a piezo/piezo bow/edge cymbal trigger.

If you go with option "B" there are three way to achieve this:

1) Build a cymbal trigger with two different piezo elements on it. This is going to be tricky as you would need to isolate the two zones.

2) Build a cymbal trigger with a bow zone that is a switch and an edge zone that is a piezo. This too has many drawbacks. The reason being is, the module will need to think it is a piezo/piezo type trigger and there is only one way to do that:

[DM10] VELOCITY ON SWITCH (Rim/Edge) ZONES

Word of warning. This project isn't for the faint of heart and it's results can be mixed. Most people who go down this road expect me to hold their hand the entire way, and I can tell you right now, I will NOT do that. Sorry, but it has been a while since I did this and I have no desire to want to do it again. You need to be handy and have a very good knowledge of MIDI and how it pertains to your set-up in order to pull this off.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 03:17:32 PM by Hellfire »

Re: 2-zone cymbals and hi-hat with DM10 X and Trigger IO
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 04:05:29 PM »
Hey,

thanks for the quick reply, I really appreciate it. I just returned from my cellar and I got some good news (see end of post).
Yes I was kind of astonished that the simple thing I want to do would be so hard...
And I was actually very amazed that there is not piezo/piezo bow and edge cymbal in the market!!! Wow!!!!!!!

Your suggestions are very good. Unfortunately I cannot use a drum pad as a hi-hat (too weird for me plus I am an acoustic drummer so it would a journey through hell to get used to it).

I have also seen your tutorial about creating the switch=piezo thingy. I can really say, I can't do that :D
 
Also I have discovered the following: The 12" cymbal that comes as the hi-hat cymbal with the Alesis DM10 X kit, is MONO and not DUAL zone!!! In absolutely no way could I get a second sound out of it. So, talk about false advertisement, the site I bought it from (thomann) says it is dual zone.

But alas! I found a solution to my troubles. I switched the hi-hat with the 14" crash cymbal, and set the second trigger to switch. Then just mapped the sounds in Addictive Drums. Now I have the hi-hat Tip being velocity sensitive and I also have the Hi-hat shaft sound from the cymbal's edge. The shaft however is not velocity sensitive...
The way I did that was to connect output A of the cymbal to PERC4 in the module. Then set the PERC4RIM trigger to Switch and voila.

I guess I have to live with a constant volume shaft. I will leave this post here so that it may help other troubled souls such as myself!