Author Topic: DM10 - Record to Sequencer for Live use  (Read 2210 times)

Offline Dartanbeck

DM10 - Record to Sequencer for Live use
« on: February 06, 2018, 03:49:17 PM »
I'll be trying this shortly. I know I've been referred to the DM10 User manual starting at page 18 for instructions on Recording Sequences, but as straight-forward as they seem, the instructions are somewhat vague.

I was hoping to know (right now I'm guessing) if I could record a sequence using my drum triggers (I don't have a midi cable yet) of instruments that are not assigned to the kit I'll be using when I trigger the sequence to play.

I already know that the Sequence will have a default "Kit" assigned to it. So I want to assign the kit I'll be playing, but use a different kit to actually record the accompaniment, so that it doesn't actually matter which kit I'm playing, it'll simply play the recorded MIDI.

So I'm wondering if I can record the Drum track with nothing on it, and record an Accomp using bongos, congas and other stuff.

I've read the manual through and it seems I should be able to do this, but like I say... it's kinda vague. 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 12:11:20 AM by Dartanbeck »
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 03:57:46 PM »
I want to use this for added percussion - use a trigger to turn it on and off as I'm playing.

Is this how I would do it?
  • Record my performance recording in ACCOMP mode
  • Edit to my liking

and then to assign a different kit to the Sequence

  • Record a performance in DRUM mode
  • Edit (delete) the performance, leaving the Kit assignment for the SEQ


or is there an easier way to assign the default Kit for the SEQ?
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 04:02:40 PM »
Okay, cool... reading further, I've found another part on Playing Sequences, which says the following:
Quote
Note: Whenever you edit a Sequence or make changes to any
paraeters, an "E" will appear in the upper-right corner of the
main screen of the Sequencer to indicate this. In order to retain
these settings for future sessions, you must store the Sequence
(see STORING SEQUENCES under the STORING &
COPYING DATA chapter).
So now I know how to change the default "Kit" for any given Sequence! ;)  Frickin Sweet!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline rhysT

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 08:17:40 AM »
I mainly use the sequencer to play Accomp patterns for practicing and haven't had much interest in recording my own sequences.
FYI, I've compiled a list of the DM10 sequences and their associated kits and accompaniments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7icgm1j0trom5k/DM10%20Sequences.jpg?dl=0
The Bass and Hit group sounds are numbered in the order they appear in the manual lists.
Fwiw, I swapped sequences #01 and #53 in my revised DM10 kits.

Just be aware that not all DM10 preset kits include sequencer Accomp sounds. If you have a Midi keyboard it's easy to check (via channel 1) what bass (A0 to A3) and other Accomp sounds (above C#4) are available in the listed kits.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:42:45 AM by rhysT »

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 11:02:47 AM »
Just be aware that not all DM10 preset kits include sequencer Accomp sounds. If you have a Midi keyboard it's easy to check (via channel 1) what bass (A0 to A3) and other Accomp sounds (above C#4) are available in the listed kits.
Hmmm... does this mean that what sounds are available to a given kit is dependent upon what sequencer was assigned to it?

Well... with luck (or not?) I'll find more out today - if I actually successfully make it to the studio.

See, on pg 23 of the Manual (Storing Sequences) we're instructed on how we can alter the Kit used in a sequence, but in such cases sounds may vary. I always took that to mean that they were talking about the drum kit itself, not the accomp.

Hey, thanks for all of this. I really appreciate it!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline rhysT

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 04:06:02 PM »
Just be aware that not all DM10 preset kits include sequencer Accomp sounds. If you have a Midi keyboard it's easy to check (via channel 1) what bass (A0 to A3) and other Accomp sounds (above C#4) are available in the listed kits.
Hmmm... does this mean that what sounds are available to a given kit is dependent upon what sequencer was assigned to it?

Consider each sequence as a midi file and its (bass & hit group) accomp sounds are included in a related kit. When you play a sequence and change to another kit you are likely to hear different sounding bass notes but not the hit group sounds.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 04:17:35 PM by rhysT »

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 07:41:01 PM »
It'll be interesting to find which groups we can use for User sequences.

I knew that family issues 'might' have prevented me from visiting my kit this week. Well... bummer. That rang true and I still haven't been able to try this thing.

I've been having dreams about it - thinking that DM10 might not even let me record to an ACCOMP track using my pads and might require me using a MIDI controller instead.

Hoping to use sounds that are not assigned to pads on the kit stored as the default kit for the Sequence. Hmmm...   Thinking....
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live (rhysT?)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 12:21:06 AM »
Consider each sequence as a midi file and its (bass & hit group) accomp sounds are included in a related kit. When you play a sequence and change to another kit you are likely to hear different sounding bass notes but not the hit group sounds.
Finally understanding this better. (Still haven't got my hands on a darned MIDI cable! LOL)

So the "Hit Groups" is a collection of sounds available to a MIDI controller via MIDI Channel 1, right? So the Hit Group determines which instruments can be recorded onto the ACCOMP track.

I imagine that, as we record to a blank ACCOMP track, we are likely allowed to enter the Hit Group we want to use. If not, all we'd need to do is to STORE a preset SEQ which contains the HG we need to the SEQ we wish to record on, then EDIT > DEL the ACCOMP track and record onto our newly blank slate.

This is all very cool.

I know it sounds silly that I don't have a MIDI cable yet. But I just haven't had the time to be at my kit doing this stuff, or I'd have one by now - if only just a borrowed one. So, since I can't actually be at my kit (except at gig time) I spend a little time here and there studying on it.
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 12:42:59 AM »
Before tearing down and loading up my kit for the last weekend's gig, I managed to get to my kit early enough to play around with this stuff.

I began by STORING an empty SEQ with the kit I wanted to use set as its default kit, then hit record and started playing. Then I set the number of measures to where I wanted the loop to be.

Works great!

Furthermore, for anyone who has never read up on recording sequences on the DM10, the module allows us to decide whether to record over (erase previous recording) or with (adds to previous recording) the track we're working on, so we can really be flexible and comfortable with how we approach our recording.

Quantization can be set to 'snap' our performance to the nearest quarter, eighth, sixteenth, thirty-second, or sixty-fourth note timing, or none at all. We can also add "Swing" to our recordings for more human feel.

We may also set the meter to be as fast or slow as we want and, since the notes play the voices from the assigned kit, if we later change the tempo the sounds of the voices will be unaffected - only the timing will change, which is awesome.

***************************************************

But here's the thing:
If we want special sounds in the sequence (SEQ), we either need to add those sounds to the Kit (if we record to the DRUM track (using the pads)) or record to the accompaniment (ACCOMP) track using a MIDI controller of some sort.

If we are not comfortable using a keyboard, we can use something like a multipad like the Alesis Sample Pad Pro or Yamaha Multi 12, for example, to MIDI IN to the DM10 module. By default (DM10) we need to use MIDI Channel 1 to access the Hit Group voice sets.

Although I still haven't done this, I believe that the big difference here (beside which sounds are available) is that the Hit Group voices are capable of actual changes in notes as opposed to the Drum Channel 10's Pitch up and down functions, which are not ideal for actually playing musical notes, for example.

If we really wish to use our DM10 pads, I'm wondering if rhysT's technique of going MIDI OUT from the DM10 back into the MIDI IN to the DM10 would allow the pads to access Hit Groups and record to ACCOMP tracks(?) Hmmm... deep thoughts! LOL 
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline rhysT

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »
If we really wish to use our DM10 pads, I'm wondering if rhysT's technique of going MIDI OUT from the DM10 back into the MIDI IN to the DM10 would allow the pads to access Hit Groups and record to ACCOMP tracks(?) Hmmm... deep thoughts! LOL

To be fair to Hellfire, I've borrowed his DM10 Midi Out to Midi In idea from this topic: http://www.alesisdrummer.com/index.php?topic=4785.msg33118#msg33118

Let us know if you're able to change notes for the Hit Group voices in any sequence as I doubt it's possible.

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 01:01:07 PM »
(Thanks again, Hellfire!!!) (...and thanks again, rhysT!!!)

I'll try. But like I said, with your handy chart we can simply store an empty copy of a sequence which uses the HitGroup we want, and then start from there.

I'm curious as to how they handle which HitGroup is default (or if it's assignable) when Recording a new accompaniment track using a MIDI controller.

Gig tonight. Hoping I'll be able to play with this some beforehand. Tough to say since others also use the studio.
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 01:13:32 PM »
I'm really eager to get a MIDI cable and hook up my M-Audio Studio 88 Pro to the DM10.

If I do have time tonight before the gig, I want to scroll through some of the sequences to see if there are any cool keyboard sounds in any of them. Would be cool to be able to record backline keyboard parts. I already know the DM10 has some lovely sounding guitars. The strumming acoustic guitar sounds are really nice for just adding some soft backline material - so no matter what instruments I find within those HitGroups, I know I'm going to have fun with this whole idea.

Now if only I could assign a trigger to start/stop SEQ_xxx, instead of just the currently selected SEQ. Would be cool to be able to set up custom setups on, say, a Sample Pad Pro, where one pad starts/stops SEQ 25, while another starts/stops SEQ 32, just as a quick example.

But alas... no such luck. No biggie though... this will still be very powerful.

See, in one of my bands the guitarist came down with a rare, lethal illness. He's alive but in bad shape and won't play anymore so we're merging down into a three-piece band instead of four. Major props to my singer, who has taken up the reigns by playing guitar or bass while he sings. He always did, but it was out of additional accompaniment, rather than being the sole instrument.

So I'm hoping to be able to take some of the pressure off of him by filling in the backline a bit - so there might be areas where he can strum or pluck single notes while singing rather than filling the whole void.

I think it's going to work.

In the meantime, it's my other band that's keeping me busy enough to not be able to experiment as much as I'd like... which is fine. I love gigging. I'll make time to figure this stuff out soon enough! ;)
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 08:29:45 PM »
After checking out many/most of the sequences included in the DM10 module, I was running too close to setup time (for gig) to do much else, like try and see if I can alter the HitGroup of a given sequence, etc.

It's really cool that they include these things (sequences). I can see how they can help drummers keep up with and acquire new licks.

What was really revealing is that there are some amazing accompaniment sounds in this thing! Some of those Bass guitar sounds are really excellent and I think I'm satisfied that there are the keyboard sounds I wanted as well. The other brass and stringed instruments sound pretty darned cool too - so I'm excited to do this thing.

Time to stop procrastinating and order (or go get) a MIDI cable and dig in!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 08:52:14 PM »
Again, very special thanks to all of the helpful folks here on the forum!

Very inspirational - pushing the imagination toward getting the most out of such an extraordinary instrument!

When I first read through the manual (a few times over) I admit that I skipped over most of the sequencer stuff, just focussing mostly on getting an internal kit set up and ready to gig with. Getting a good kit was easy, I thought. Though I'm still constantly tweaking it.

It was when I recently found this forum when I started remembering that there's a whole lot more to this thing.

This forum ROCKS!
Thanks!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 07:05:49 PM »
Still having not experienced hooking up a keyboard or otherwise trying to record an Accompaniment track, I keep having ideas and questions on how I'll approach this when I finally do get the opportunity. For me - especially lately - time is incredibly limited, so I'm hoping to make good, practical use of my time when I do get the chance to dig in.

That said, I was just wondering to myself: When I hook up a midi keyboard controller to this thing, do I need to know specific midi notes for each accompaniment instrument note? I'm thinking it has to be easier than that.

So I head straight to the manual again to see if I can gain some insight.

This brought me to EDITING ACCOMPANIMENT IN A KIT, which appears (appears) to have an answer to rhysT's question above. Here's a quote from the manual:

EDITING ACCOMPANIMENT IN A KIT

1. When you are in the Kit whose Accompaniment you want to edit, press EDIT ACCOMP. The screen will show:
          a. the number of the Kit whose Accompaniment you will be editing
          b. the Layer (the Accompaniment consists of two layers, each with its own Instrument)
          c. the Category (the type or "class" of sound currently assigned to that Layer)
          d. the Instrument (the sound for that Layer)

2. Select which Layer of the Accompaniment you will edit by pressing EDIT ACCOMP. It will toggle between Layer A and B.

3. Select the Category you want to assign to that Voice by pressing CURSOR UP / DOWN to highlight the Category field, then use the VALUE UP / DOWN buttons or VALUE DIAL to change it.

4. Select the Instrument for that Layer by pressing CURSOR UP / DOWN to highlight the Instrument field, then use the VALUE UP / DOWN buttons or VALUE DIAL to change it. To hear the currently selected sound, strike the corresponding trigger or press PREVIEW on the module.

Quote
Useful information about Accompaniment:
The Accompaniment track includes the bass line and other synthesizer sounds that you hear when the
module is playing a Sequence. The drum track and Accompaniment track play simultaneously, and you
can mute either of the tracks as they play with the MUTE DRUMS or MUTE ACCOMP buttons.
Just as each drum Instrument of a Kit belongs to a Category (e.g., KICKS, SNARES, LATIN PERC, etc.)
Accompaniment Instruments are also grouped into several Categories: BASS, SYN BASS, FX, and HIT
GROUPS.
Also, just like drum Voices, the Accompaniment has two Layers of Instruments. Layer A is usually the
bass line. Layer B is often something different – another melodic line, chords, or "hits."
Instrument changes within or between the BASS and SYN BASS Categories may sometimes be
desirable – the bass will have a different tone or quailty while the bass line itself (the notes you hear)
remains the same. However, if you edit the Instruments in the FX or HIT GROUPS Categories, it may
dramatically change the way a Sequence sounds if it uses that Kit.
In this case, we recommend muting that Layer of that Kit's Accompaniment (see EDITING VOICE &
ACCOMPANIMENT PARAMETERS for more information) or muting the Accompaniment altogether by
pressing MUTE ACCOMP.

EDITING VOICE & ACCOMPANIMENT PARAMETERS

While editing your Kits by changing the Instruments in a drum Voice or the Accompaniment, you can also edit various parameters that affect each Layer and, therefore, the Instrument on that Layer. You can do this for the drum Voices or the Accompaniment, though some parameters below may only be editable for one of these.

1. Press DRUM KIT to go to the Main Screen.

2. Press EDIT INST to edit drum Voice parameters or EDIT ACCOMP to edit Accompaniment parameters. The top of the screen will show the number and name of the Kit whose Instruments (drum Voices or Accompaniment) you will be editing.

3. Select INST (F1). The new screen will show:

          a. the trigger Voice you are editing (the Kit number and name of the Voice will be shown). If you are editing the Accompaniment, this will read "Accomp."

          b. the Layer (each trigger sound or Accompaniment track consists of two Layers, each with its own Instrument)

          c. the Category (the type or "class" of drum sound or Accompaniment currently assigned to that Layer)

          d. the Instrument (the drum or Accompaniment sound for that Layer)

4. If you are editing a Voice, select the Voice whose Instrument you want to change by pressing NOTE CHASE then striking the desired trigger. Alternatively, you can highlight the Voice (next to the Kit number) using the CURSOR UP / DOWN buttons to highlight it and use the VALUE UP / DOWN buttons or VALUE DIAL to change it. (This step is not necessary when editing Accompaniment.)
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 07:11:59 PM »
So, notice that I've emboldened and italicized the last words of the following:

Quote
4. If you are editing a Voice, select the Voice whose Instrument you want to change by pressing NOTE CHASE then striking the desired trigger. Alternatively, you can highlight the Voice (next to the Kit number) using the CURSOR UP / DOWN buttons to highlight it and use the VALUE UP / DOWN buttons or VALUE DIAL to change it. (This step is not necessary when editing Accompaniment.)

I believe that it says this because that type of "Instrument" is meant to be played by a midi controller, in many cases a keyboard, right? Meaning that the sound will play tonal notes depending upon what midi note is sent. Am I understanding this correctly, you think?

But it also helps to illustrate that it does appear to be possible to assign ANY of the Accompaniment samples for ANY drum kit! Yes, it warns that this might make the accompaniment of a sequence unuseable, and that we may need to mute it then - which is totally understandable for pre-recorded sequences. But for making our own... Yeah!!!! I think this is going to ROCK!!!
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist

Offline Dartanbeck

Re: DM10 - Using Sequencer recordings Live
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2018, 07:26:29 PM »
So, have you seen Michael Schank? He's a Roland V-Drum guy whom uses a sample pad to launch musical mash-ups that he makes using music from hit artists in creative ways, and he then plays the drums live to it. He creatively makes these mash-ups so that as he hits them they start with something that works well with any of the other mash-ups he has in that kit on the sample pad. I think then he also always includes a final note for closing everything down.

Here's a good example of him, and what I mean:
https://youtu.be/AD9x5ttCMzI?list=PLThYwnIoLwyWajZwJjw0zvJpwIn6ChEwX

That's kind of like what I'm seeking to do, but instead of using music from other artists, I want to record my own using midi directly as Accompaniment sequences into my module.

Note: I don't really want to (at this point) keep switching to different sequences the way he does. I'll make my sequences work so that the one sequence will do the trick for the one (or more, perhaps?) sound at a time - that part is fine. I did notice, however, that some of the newer Alesis modules allow us to actually assign which sequence is triggered when a pad is struck. I believe the DM10 only allows us to trigger the currently selected sequence - but that's great for me!

When I get to the point where I want to trigger multiple times within the same song, I'll have more stuff at my disposal, like perhaps another newer Alesis kit as an add-on to this one, and/or perhaps a sample pad of some kind. My singer just bought a Sample Pad Pro for the studio, and it seems like it would work for what I want to do... but they certainly are not as robust as, say, the Roland or Yamaha pad solutions.
Alesis DM10X Mesh - Laurin Drums & Cymbals - Strike Module
Dartanbeck.com Digital Artist