Author Topic: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals  (Read 2609 times)

Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« on: October 11, 2016, 11:48:37 PM »
It doesn't seem like there's a simple solution to easily choke 6 cymbals the traditional way, so I was thinking of just getting a foot switch to use as a shortcut and then make a mute group from there.

Only thing I'm unsure of is whether I need to get a latching (Boss FS-5L) or nonlatching (Boss FS-5U) foot switch.
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Offline rhysT

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 02:07:33 AM »
It doesn't seem like there's a simple solution to easily choke 6 cymbals the traditional way, so I was thinking of just getting a foot switch to use as a shortcut and then make a mute group from there.

Apparently a foot switch like the Boss FS-5U could be assigned to a DM10 mute group via the Percs 1-4 or Toms 1-3 rim trigger inputs (connected using a Y cable splitter).

Another option is including one of your least used Tom rims in a Cymbals mute group and reduce its sound level.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 03:04:42 AM by rhysT »

Online Hellfire

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 08:06:53 AM »
It doesn't seem like there's a simple solution to easily choke 6 cymbals the traditional way, so I was thinking of just getting a foot switch to use as a shortcut and then make a mute group from there.

Only thing I'm unsure of is whether I need to get a latching (Boss FS-5L) or nonlatching (Boss FS-5U) foot switch.

A mute group could work, but there is one more thing you can try. I don't have my DM10 set-up currently so you will have to check to make sure this works with the current firmware.

If I remember correctly, pushing the "STOP" button on the module mutes the entire kit. At this point your saying "Great, but do you really expect me to push that little stop button every time I want to mute my six cymbals?"

No, but you can set up any trigger (rim or head) to act as the "STOP" function. You could also set up a foot switch to do the same thing. You would just need to connect the foot switch (momentary switch or non-latching) to one of your rim triggers. By using the "STOP" function, you no longer need to set up a massive mute group.

Let us know what you end up doing.

Offline AlanK

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 10:42:53 AM »
This is a really cool idea. And so, you'd want to do a kind of flam I suppose to make this sound right? Hit any crash, then a half a second give or take later hit the assigned rim (or stomp that foot pedal) to cut it off. I imagine if you were doing this in a performing mode and you wanted to give the audience the look of choking you could smash your cymbal, then grab a hold of it with one hand and hit your rim or whatever with the other hand at the same time as the fake choke.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 11:57:11 AM »
It doesn't seem like there's a simple solution to easily choke 6 cymbals the traditional way, so I was thinking of just getting a foot switch to use as a shortcut and then make a mute group from there.

Only thing I'm unsure of is whether I need to get a latching (Boss FS-5L) or nonlatching (Boss FS-5U) foot switch.

A mute group could work, but there is one more thing you can try. I don't have my DM10 set-up currently so you will have to check to make sure this works with the current firmware.

If I remember correctly, pushing the "STOP" button on the module mutes the entire kit. At this point your saying "Great, but do you really expect me to push that little stop button every time I want to mute my six cymbals?"

No, but you can set up any trigger (rim or head) to act as the "STOP" function. You could also set up a foot switch to do the same thing. You would just need to connect the foot switch (momentary switch or non-latching) to one of your rim triggers. By using the "STOP" function, you no longer need to set up a massive mute group.

Let us know what you end up doing.

According to the manual Stop is for sequences, both the button and the trigger, so I'm definitely gonna need a mute group
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Online Hellfire

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 12:27:07 PM »
It doesn't seem like there's a simple solution to easily choke 6 cymbals the traditional way, so I was thinking of just getting a foot switch to use as a shortcut and then make a mute group from there.

Only thing I'm unsure of is whether I need to get a latching (Boss FS-5L) or nonlatching (Boss FS-5U) foot switch.

A mute group could work, but there is one more thing you can try. I don't have my DM10 set-up currently so you will have to check to make sure this works with the current firmware.

If I remember correctly, pushing the "STOP" button on the module mutes the entire kit. At this point your saying "Great, but do you really expect me to push that little stop button every time I want to mute my six cymbals?"

No, but you can set up any trigger (rim or head) to act as the "STOP" function. You could also set up a foot switch to do the same thing. You would just need to connect the foot switch (momentary switch or non-latching) to one of your rim triggers. By using the "STOP" function, you no longer need to set up a massive mute group.

Let us know what you end up doing.

According to the manual Stop is for sequences, both the button and the trigger, so I'm definitely gonna need a mute group

I know what the manual states, but I'm telling you that I know (via testing) that pressing the "STOP" button mutes anything playing. Just because it's not stated in the manual doesn't mean it can't be done. All you have to do is turn on your module and hit a cymbal and then press the "STOP" button to see if it works. It isn't that difficult of a test for someone who has their kit/module set up and running. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. If does, well then you have another option. What I'm describing is a non stated "feature" of the module (more like a happy accident that just happens to work).  ;)

I look forward to hearing your results.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 04:40:11 PM by Hellfire »

Offline AlanK

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 02:29:25 PM »
And that reminds me of another non-stated fact that I learned the other day, that maybe you or others already know but it was a surprise to me.. mind you, it makes total sense, I'd just never thought of it.

I use Addictive Drums and midi with my DM10 and I generally jump right to the software when I get on my kit. The other day I was working on some trigger settings on the module, while in AD2, decided to see if I'd hear the metronome if I pressed that button.. alas, I heard nothing (I forget if there's a setting to send the metronome signal via midi) but in any case it didn't work.

So I started pressing other buttons to see if I'd hear it once I hit the play button, or sequence and so on. To my surprise, I got Jalapeno playing in my headphones, but of course, the Addictive Drums version with the kit I had selected and not the standard DM10 kit assigned. Again, I should have presumed this would happen, just never had dreamed of testing out the accompaniments or sequences when using my VST! So I began looping the various 75 sequences, changing the kits on the DM10 to get different flavours of it, then changing my kit choices and instruments on Addictive.. what a hoot.. cool to watch the pieces light up to the beat of the DM10 samples on my computer monitor as well.

Anyways, it makes total sense, those Sequences and Accompaniments are triggering midi notes on the module, so of course they're gonna hit Addictive Drums and play through whatever kit paks I've got dialed in at the moment.. thought it was cool
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Online Hellfire

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 04:29:44 PM »
And that reminds me of another non-stated fact that I learned the other day, that maybe you or others already know but it was a surprise to me.. mind you, it makes total sense, I'd just never thought of it.

I use Addictive Drums and midi with my DM10 and I generally jump right to the software when I get on my kit. The other day I was working on some trigger settings on the module, while in AD2, decided to see if I'd hear the metronome if I pressed that button.. alas, I heard nothing (I forget if there's a setting to send the metronome signal via midi) but in any case it didn't work.

So I started pressing other buttons to see if I'd hear it once I hit the play button, or sequence and so on. To my surprise, I got Jalapeno playing in my headphones, but of course, the Addictive Drums version with the kit I had selected and not the standard DM10 kit assigned. Again, I should have presumed this would happen, just never had dreamed of testing out the accompaniments or sequences when using my VST! So I began looping the various 75 sequences, changing the kits on the DM10 to get different flavours of it, then changing my kit choices and instruments on Addictive.. what a hoot.. cool to watch the pieces light up to the beat of the DM10 samples on my computer monitor as well.

Anyways, it makes total sense, those Sequences and Accompaniments are triggering midi notes on the module, so of course they're gonna hit Addictive Drums and play through whatever kit paks I've got dialed in at the moment.. thought it was cool

Sometimes just "trying something" can be interesting. That is how many of the non stated features are found. Heck there is an entire section of these advanced features on the forum. It's called "Advanced Drum Module Techniques". The problem is, not many people ever view that section of the forum. Admittedly the STOP button kit mute isn't listed. I guess I will add that to the topics.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 04:40:48 PM by Hellfire »

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 01:23:51 PM »
It turns out it does work, that being said I still prefer a more precise muting via a mute group
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 01:31:23 PM »
Hellfire do you think my dm10+dm8 setup is something that belongs on the Advanced Module Techniques forum?
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Online Hellfire

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2016, 09:06:19 AM »
Hellfire do you think my dm10+dm8 setup is something that belongs on the Advanced Module Techniques forum?

That depends. Are you using these modules in some fashion that is not well documented that you believe is not obvious and requires explanation? If the modules are just tied together via an audio mixer, I say no. That is pretty basic stuff.

Now if your set-up is MIDIed together in some way and you are using some of the other advanced techniques to achieve something that isn't able to be done with general knowledge, then please post about it (with explanation) in the section of the forum. Remember the purpose of that section is to teach something that isn't well known. Just saying "look at my advance kit" doesn't cut it. You need to show what and how it is advanced so other can try it if they wish.

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 11:33:56 AM »
this is the original topic on it
http://www.alesisdrummer.com/index.php?topic=3497.0

most of the info is on page 2 and 3
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Online Hellfire

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 06:59:57 PM »
this is the original topic on it
http://www.alesisdrummer.com/index.php?topic=3497.0

most of the info is on page 2 and 3

I understand your desire to have that topic in the Advanced section, but just moving the topic to the Advanced section is no good. The reason is, it isn't obvious when you start reading the topic what it is you are doing. Basically its a discovery type topic. You asked for help and then everyone try to figure it out as they went. One would need to read the whole topic just to see what in the world you are trying to do.

The Advanced section is really for those techniques that have been figured out and you are now ready to tell the forum step by step how to do it. Now, if you want to start a new topic in the Advanced section that states what you set out to do from your original topic and then show people step by step how to do it, go right ahead. Then it would be best placed in the Advanced section.

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 01:06:50 PM »
I didn't mean literally "move this topic", you asked if there was anything advanced about the setup so I linked you to what went into it.

sorry for the confusion
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 12:24:01 AM »
Got the foot switch, put it on a mute group and instantly ran into a problem where if I put all the cymbals on the same mute group then they cancel each other out

There are 9 mute groups, so I can put a cymbal on each of them, but I can only put the foot switch on one mute group.

My other option is to use the foot switch as the stop button, but that will also mute non-cymbal pads and I would have to swap it with a trigger plugged into my dm10 because the trigger io doesn't have that function, and I'd also be losing that "grabbing a cymbal" sound when I set the foot switch to a cymbal with volume level 01

don't know what else to do

Edit: using the foot switch as the stop button will only mute the dm10, it won't mute the dm8, which is bad because all my cymbals use layers from both modules
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 08:43:00 PM by soccerdude84 »
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]

Re: Using a foot switch to choke cymbals
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2017, 10:16:36 PM »
I recently thought of another way to do this, though it requires an additional input for each cymbal you want to choke. Still, if you want the simplicity of choking a cymbal with a foot switch, this is going to be the best way to do it I think.

You're going to need:
-trigger io (technically you don't need this but if you already split the inputs in your dm10 you will need it)
-non-latching foot switch
-1/4" trs to ts adapter http://a.co/0laDk62
-1/4" trs cable, long enough to reach your foot switch from the trigger io
-1/4" trs female to dual 1/4" trs male http://a.co/8xh1rxK (if you're choking 1 or 2 cymbals you don't need this, if you're choking 5 or 6 cymbals you'll need 2 of these, 7 or 8 you'll need 3 etc.)
-1/4" trs splitter cable http://a.co/0LWh7Pu (only needed for the setup)

1. start off by plugging the trs cable directly into the footswitch.
2. plug the other end of the cable into one of the ends on the trs splitter (red or black, doesn't matter), and plug the splitter into the trigger io.
2a. I do not recommend using port 4 (ride) on the trigger io because you cannot change the trigger type.
3. hit the foot switch, if you saw a light blink on the trigger io then it worked, if not something is wrong.
4. change the midi channel on the trigger io to an unused number, for each cymbal you want to choke you need another unused number, for my 6 cymbals  these were 74 to 79.
5. enter these settings:
gain: 15
curve: constant
threshold: 5
x-talk: 1
retrigger: 127
trigger type: SS
6. turn on note chase on the dm10 and hit the footswitch, it should change to the midi channel number you chose on the trigger io
7. copy one of the cymbals you want to choke to this midi number, so for me I want to copy a cymbal I have on Perc2Hd to MIDI #74
8. On (MIDI #74) you want to change the Level to 1 and the Decay to 1, do the same on Layer B if you're using it.
9. Set the mutegroup to 1, and then go back to where the cymbal is (Perc2Hd) and set that mutegroup to 1.
10. Hit the cymbal and then the footswitch, it should choke, if not something is wrong.
11. You have now completed the choke on 1 cymbal. For the second cymbal, unplug the trs cable from the trs splitter and plug it into the other end (if it was in black plug it into red and vise-versa).
12. Repeat steps 3 to 10, keeping everything the same but choosing a new Midi channel number, copying a different cymbal to that number, and choosing a different mutegroup.
13. For cymbal 3, unplug the trs splitter from the trigger io and plug it into a different port, as long as it's not port 4 (ride). It's best to pick one adjacent to the  previous port you used. Repeat step 12.
14. Keep repeating these steps until you've exhausted all the cymbals you want to choke, there are 9 mutegroups so you can choke up to 9 cymbals this way.
15. After everything is done, unplug the trs splitter completely (you no longer need this) and plug your trs cable into "1/4 inch trs female to dual 1/4 trs male", plug the male ends into the ports you used on the trigger io (the order doesn't matter) . Since I used 3 ports I have to use 2 of these things and arrange it like this:

16. unplug your trs cable from the foot switch, plug the 1/4" trs to ts adapter in between, like this:

17. test all your cymbals and make sure they choke, if not something is wrong, if you tested each cymbal individually before moving onto the next one then you shouldn't have any problems at this point.

And that's it, hopefully this helps .
DM10(BlueJay)/DM8/iO, SD3; Shure SE215, Simmons DA50, Alto ZMX862, Focusrite Scarlett; Tama SpeedCobra, VF 7AN, Roc-N-Soc;
DIY: Tennis Ball Drum Riser, Cymbal Felt Beater, Footswitch Cymbal Choker[url]