Author Topic: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings  (Read 5706 times)

Offline AlanK

Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« on: April 19, 2016, 09:52:10 AM »
Hello fellow Pro X users!

This weekend I spent an hour or so trying to recalibrate/configure my Pro X hats to see if I could get it to work better.. we've all had some or a lot of frustration with it, but I've had a bit of luck in getting it to work (for me) a lot better than previously. Couple of things to say first off, just because I'm finding it's a bit better on my kit, with the same settings it could still suck on yours.. it would seem no two modules are exactly alike, and of course, the hi-hat stands are going to be different. I'm using a relatively cheap Network stand.. I'm no expert, I've only ever owned maybe 3 hat stands in my life.. never really had an amazing one. This Network stand functions well enough but I found the spring tension fairly tight, even adjusting the tension setting.. then add in the spring from the Pro X hats and it's been hard to close it with any subtlety. I replaced the spring in the stand, wasn't easy..makes closing a bit less effort but I may put it back soon and try again to train myself to stomp a little harder.

Plus, the hats will always be louder as far as cymbals in the kit go, thanks to Alesis' great idea of using one of their cheapest crappiest sets possible. There is also the problem with air displacement slowing down closure when barking or chicking 'em. I was looking closely at those 3 rubber circles that protrude. Are they there to help the thing "feel" how tight you're closing it? Or just to help with damping the sound as the top and bottom meet up in closing them?

Anyhow, so I recalibrated my Open/Close.. I tried many variations and ended up sticking with 80/10. I tried all setups from about 20/10 up to 99/80 and everything in between.. even 99/1 and 60/40. Partly depended on how much separation I set my top and bottom hats at. But I'd try a setting, play closed, all open, barking, chicking, and partly closed and so on and then try another setting and another. For me, I got the best of all sounds with 80/10. My hats have about an inch and half gap at full open. I also set my triggers to low xtalk since they're on their own stand, retrig of 18 and threshold 03..again, played with one hand and foot while raising and lowering the settings to see how it seemed best, then tried buzzrolling on the closed and open hats to see if I got any machine gunning or missing hits and settled on those numbers.

But for me, the biggest discovery was in the velocity curves.. I tend to have my pads at Log3.. maybe 2 or 4 depending on how sensitive or large the drum is.. even the crashes/ride I think I've got Log3. So that's what my hats were.. when I first got the Pro X, in order to get a decent enough pronounced bark, and to have my edge and top hits loud enough, I had both cymbals and pedal set to Log2 or 3.

This time I went through them all and spent a few minutes playing with each. Linear, Log3&4, a few others gave nice strong results. But it lacked in dynamics, I couldn't get a nice sound if I played softly. If I lowered to Log1 or 2, it was too weak. The Exponential settings didn't cut it for me, but I was amazed this time around at how good response I would get with the Spline settings. So I ended up settling on 2 & 3 and now I can finesse a lot more if I want to play some fast double strokes on the hats in a quiet part or just tap softer when a song gets brought down low.. and then if you bring it up louder it senses it nicely. The other thing was for my chicks, it was pretty much one loud sound I'd get with the Log settings..which I needed it seemed for rock but if I chicked in a quieter song it was just way too loud. With the spline settings I can get a fairly soft chick as well as a louder chick when I want it.

So maybe some of you have already got those settings dialed in and I hope its working well for you. For some of the people who haven't had time to test out all the trigger settings, I hope this helps make your Pro X experience a bit better. Oh, and I noticed I had my sensitivity up too high, I think I was like 50. I brought it down to 25 or 30 and that also helped a lot in allowing me to get decent response at low volume/velocity in my playing. If you're like me, maybe you set the kit up and didn't have hours and hours to toy with all the fine tunings and calibrations other than a few minutes here and there. I'd usually rather focus on just getting in some semi-decent playing than spend two hours dialing in the module! But nevertheless, this has helped me get a far better sound and response out of my Pro X and enjoy playing even more now. Definitely there are many times when I'm playing and I'm not feeling like I'm getting the same action and sound as I would with an acoustic set, but it's at least a heck of a lot better after spending some quality time on the module again, and for Addictive Drums it's translated well into my enjoyment for that environment as well.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2016, 11:16:27 PM »
Thank you for posting this. Everyone that has the pro X should read this and maybe others have found better things. I have mine usable right now. But by no means it is good. I am not sure it's even going to stay on the kit. I might send it back. I really don't want to because I like them and want them to work. I am going to try your settings. I didn't mess with the velocity at all. I think mine is log 2. Anyone else have some success with any of this?
********************************************************************
- Josh

Alesis DM10 Module triggering SD2.0 - A2E converted Sonor Force 2007. All 3 ply mesh head / Drum-Tec Real Feel. :)
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Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2016, 09:39:36 PM »
Thanks so much for these settings, this really helped allot. Received mine on Saturday, and was incredibly frustrated. Your settings helped clear this up.

Stu

Offline AlanK

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 08:30:53 AM »
Wow, that's awesome! And I imagine each person's kit or tastes will work better with some adjustments of their own, but these did seem to improve mine.. so glad it has helped someone else. I still want to try putting the original hi-hat top back for the ambient noise reduction, and I was planning on trying to add a few extra foam pads around the perimeter of the top (or bottom) hat to soften the closure a bit, and continue to adjust my spring tension of the hat stand as well.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 07:04:24 AM »
Ok I am using these setting now. I am not new to music I have played guitar since 1987. But this is my first drum kit. Meaning... My wife owns and acoustic kit that is in boxes and I really have never played it. But my hi-hat is working MUCH better. And is working good with Superior Drummer 2 much better than the module. But I hold the hi-hat down and hit it on the top and it gives me the chick sound. Like it should. Then if I hit it on the edge it gives me a splashier sound. (Splashier? Is that a word?) Is this how it is supposed to work? The hi-hat is functional and reliable. I thought if you hit it on the edge it was supposed to chick.

Does that make sense? :)
********************************************************************
- Josh

Alesis DM10 Module triggering SD2.0 - A2E converted Sonor Force 2007. All 3 ply mesh head / Drum-Tec Real Feel. :)
********************************************************************

Offline AlanK

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 08:30:20 AM »
Hi Granz, I'm probably not the best for teaching or giving exact info, but anyways if the hats are closed and you tap the top it will (should) give you a tick kind of sound, and depending on how hard you hit it will be from a tap to maybe the sound of a muted tamborine (?). Hitting on the edge adds in some of the bottom hat so you'll get two cymbals sounding at once..depending on how hard and how tight you've got them closed, it will be a tap to the sound of a delayed kind of tshhhhh. and as you open the hats the "sizzle" gets louder and lower in pitch (or something along those lines.. best to google it eventually). If you stomp your foot/heel up and down you'll get a chiuck sound as it opens and closes.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 05:21:24 PM »
Well I think I have this thing pretty good. To the point that I am just playing it rather than messing with settings. I am sure to an acoustic drummer it is not perfect. Hopefully Alesis with the Strike kits have worked out the bugs. Glad you posted this because I was thinking it was junk like many of the reviews I have seen.

I also have noticed that it is not all "settings" in the module. Your setup on the stand makes a difference too.
********************************************************************
- Josh

Alesis DM10 Module triggering SD2.0 - A2E converted Sonor Force 2007. All 3 ply mesh head / Drum-Tec Real Feel. :)
********************************************************************

Offline AlanK

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2016, 09:20:10 AM »
Yes, the stand factors in, plus I've found that there's definitely a difference (slight but noticeable) in how you have to adjust your playing and movements with working the hi-hat.. you have to open the hats a millisecond earlier than you would with acoustic hats, even barking might have a bit more latency than you'd feel with acoustic. And to hold your position in partial open/closed playing takes a lot of focus and stamina.. slight rising or lowering of your foot makes a big difference.. this may be a big part of where people get frustrated with either the pro or the standard pedal setups.. it really takes a steady foot to be able to open to a point where you like/want the sound of the hats to be, and keep your foot in that spot through the playing.. as you tap/beat away at the hats your body moves and an acoustic stand is way more forgiving.. the average person won't notice a big change in the amount of openess or closedness...lol.. but with electronic triggering or sensing of where the position is, it's really hard to hold the pedal down a third and keep it there while you flail away. So I've been working on it during my practices.. just go for 10 or 20 minutes straight playing on the hats with my foot in one position, see if I can hold it and keep a constant hat result, then maybe bring it up a half inch, or down a bit, see if I'm able to maintain that position and get a fairly constant voicing of the hats.. I'll move my foot up or down on the pedal to see where it feels most comfortable...sometimes I can do better with heel down and let my ankle do the work of holding the position, sometimes I try heel up and see if my legs can hold the postion.. I'm pretty out of shape so I generally fall back on the heel down technique. And I find barking seems to work better (more pronounced) if my heel is down and foot lower on the pedal in general, but if I want to do chicking in time, foot up higher on the pedal and more leg action for better pronunciation of the chick.

So my point is, what I've found, it takes a lot of testing out position, finesse, and adjusting your playing slightly to make it work for you.. it'll never be as "exact" as an acoustic hat setup, but it's at least tolerable. And as frustrating as it is to have to settle with tolerable, if you consider we pay 100-130 for this technology whereas with an acoustic set you'd probably spend 150-300 on decent hi-hats so we get what we pay for.. the Roland setup or Yamaha is what, 500 or more? We can't complain "too" much, we're getting reasonably priced equipment.. if we were a professional gigging band or recording artist I'm sure we'd drop a ton of cash for the best, but this is pretty darned good and I'm still having a blast at "hobbyist" prices, so I wish it was better but I'm still lovin' it  :-)   Plus, the new Strike gear may bring us closer to ecstacy lol
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 01:10:11 PM »
I agree there is a learning curve. I would love to have an acoustic set but building the 5000 dollar room in my house stops me every time. I will always be electronic I suppose. Maybe some day. When I bought my first guitar in 1987 I went electric and just got my first acoustic a few years ago. History repeats itself I am sure. I will get that and think it plays weird I am sure.
********************************************************************
- Josh

Alesis DM10 Module triggering SD2.0 - A2E converted Sonor Force 2007. All 3 ply mesh head / Drum-Tec Real Feel. :)
********************************************************************

Offline AngryQuaker

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 10:02:27 PM »
I just wanted to thank everyone that's every posted anything, anywhere, about the Pro X hi hat in the few years it's been on the market. I think I've probably read all of it. I got my DM10 X Mesh and Pro X for Christmas, and just now finally got it responding in an acceptable manner. It took several hours of my time, a few facepalms, and even one replacement from AMS because I thought the first one must've surely been defective. Also, I played my NYE gig on the RealHat, same reason. No, it's most certainly not my "real" K hats, but it's working, and it will do for now. And my drop clutch doth worketh. Hallelujah. So, may the gods bless and keep you all. And thanks again. All of you. Everywhere.

-Russ

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 12:23:34 AM »
Thanks for the tips. For me the hi hats sound amazing with your settings: great response, amazing sound but I have a hi hat note that appears every 5 to 10 seconds even if I dont play a single pad... it is just a pattern that I can't get rid off even if I move the sensitivity the xcross or the threshold. I just can't get it to stop. I had to return to the factory settings. I am also having problems with the chick sound: it either sounds very loud or cuts in the middle. But like you guys said it is a learning curve.
Cheers from Mexico.
diego

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 08:31:43 AM »
Hi All,

I just got my Pro X a week ago, hooked it up quick, got a few hopeful sounds from it and then had to leave it for other things.  Got back to it the other day and after starting to tweak settings, things got worse instead of better.  This post helped me a ton!  I'm a guitarist learning drums a bit and just find the physical movement of the hi hats to be such a big improvement over the stock hi hat.  I've been playing around from these settings, trying to get the chick more pronounced (like with the stock hi hat) and consistent (the stock never was, I would get 3 out of 4 chicks at best) when I just close the hats.

I figured I should update the firmware as the instructions say but I can't get the updater program to see the DM10 on my Windows 10 machine.  All my other MIDI devices work on my laptop, just not the Alesis updater.  I have the DM10 powered off, connect the USB cable to the laptop and the DM10 usb connector, hold the record button and power on the DM10.  Windows never pops anything up and the updater MIDI Interface only shows "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth".  I know I had updated in the past, probably before Windows 10. 

From the Utility:O/S screen
Trig OS : V1.01a       -- current
Sound ROM : V1.03  -- current
Sound OS: V1.00q    -- looks like "r" is the latest

So I have a couple questions:
1) How do I determine the boot version?  It doesn't show up when I actually boot the DM10.
2) Will updating to V1.00r improve the Pro X? 
3) If so are there alternatives to using "updater" to to this?  I've installed MIDI-OX but haven't tried it yet.  Would that work?

Any other suggestions are very much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

- Ken

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 09:08:50 PM »
I've been reading this entire forum since I got my DM10 Studio Mesh kit in Feb 2016. There is a ton of good information everyone has contributed.

Today I received and installed my Pro X Hi Hats. It was a little frustrating at first but this thread helped quit a bit, but my hats were still not acting to my preference. I discovered something that I have not seen mentioned anywhere on any of the threads regarding the set up of the ProX's. I have near perfect performance by simply raising the top hat off the spring that comes with the Pro X. Just 1/8 to 1/4 inch and they act like the hats on my acoustic set.

If this was mentioned somewhere else, I apologize for bringing it up again. In reading many peoples comments on their dissatisfaction with these hats, I can honestly say mine are near perfect.

My settings are similar to the OP in this thread, but very slightly.

Also I realize this is an older thread but I thought if anyone were searching for information such as myself, this could possibly help them out.

Offline AlanK

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 12:51:26 PM »
That's an interesting find, I don't remember anyone ever mentioning it. I've tried without the spring completely.. that didn't work well. So any idea why having some space between makes such a difference? I'm going to try it as soon as I get home.

Fingers are crossed...
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 07:44:38 PM »
That's an interesting find, I don't remember anyone ever mentioning it. I've tried without the spring completely.. that didn't work well. So any idea why having some space between makes such a difference? I'm going to try it as soon as I get home.

Fingers are crossed...

I stumbled on it when I was adjusting the settings and playing with the hat stand.
Now I am no expert but I'm going to take a guess that Alesis added this spring to sense the pressure of the top hat against the bottom hat to get a sizzle sound of the hats rubbing together without being completely closed.

If this is the case, it would have been nice for them to add this information to the set up manual.

My settings differ from yours quite a bit but your original post did help me dial mine in, For that I sincerely Thank you.

Also a different stand will require a change in settings too. I originally used my DW stand from my acoustic kit while a Pearl stand I bought was being shipped. Tonight when I set up the Pearl stand I had to readjust most every setting.

Also, Now that I figured out the top hat thing, I'm curious if cutting the spring would make a difference on the performance of the hats. My top hat is about 1/2 in higher than I like an acoustic hat to be. Even though the top hat is only about 1/8-1/4 inch above the spring I would like to close the gap between the hats slightly.

Please post if you noticed any difference on yours once you try it out. I'm really curious to see if yours works this way too.

Offline AlanK

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 10:05:35 AM »
Hey FnRage, that is so interesting. I'm curious what makes things need adjusting with different stands. I had a 3 legged Netwerk stand for a while and then found a 2 leg stand on sale and grabbed it since I have a double kick pedal. I didn't really think about any setting changes.. what kind of stuff did you figure needed to be set differently?

So I was anxious to get home yesterday and sure enough, there DOES seem to be a better response after moving the top hat up to a centimetre or two above the spring top. I use Addictive almost exclusively now so I didn't try it with just the module. But it did make my playing better with AD2 and I am grateful for this tip.. everyone else who chimed in on the Pro X complaint train should test this out and post their results.

It may not have been a 'night and day' difference for me, but it certainly pushed it up to way more enjoyable and way more functioning and that's such a major boost.. I'd have some preset kits that even when I'd boost the hi-hat signal it just didn't come through well in closed mode unless I tapped hard right on the top of the cymbal (open, partly open and chicking comes through ok). So in any case, wow, this really helped a lot!

Does anyone know if there's any way to adjust the sensitivity for the top of the hi-hat as opposed to the sides? I imagine not.. I know there's calibration for both the hat and the chick sensitivity and I imagine we can only adjust the top hat in one way.. I mean, if I want to play jazzy fast 16ths or 32nds on the top.. it's one thing to play rock and hit the side of the closed hats with the shoulder of the stick.. I get that usually loud and pronounced enough, but in the same setup to try to take it down during a song and do some tapping on top of the hats I lose the clarity. I guess I should try swapping in one of my better cymbals as the top hat and see if it's an improvement.. I tried this swap before and of course it was such a better cymbal than the Pro X piece of crap top hat but I wasn't really happy with how the hats closed so I put the stock one back on and suffered with it.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Re: Pro X Hi-Hat Settings
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 03:12:44 PM »
I had to adjust the Trim and Curve on the pedal. Nothing major but in the spirit of getting it dialed in I spent a small amount of time with it. When I get a minute I will post my settings (currently at work).

I'm glad it made a difference for you Alan. And I agree it's more of an enjoyment to play and keep time with my left foot. Nice "chick" sound when closing the hat.

If you get your sensitivity issue worked out, let me know. I'm always up for improvements.

I use AD2 as well but usually only for recording. I haven't messed with AD2 since I added the Pro X's but I will most likely play with that option this weekend. My stubborn ass likes to tweak the voices on the module and get them sounding the best they can.