Author Topic: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function  (Read 2708 times)

Offline Rmiller

ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« on: April 06, 2016, 10:31:43 AM »
Greetings all! Has anyone ever figured out what the function of the lower cymbal with the switch and 3.5mm jack does on the pro x hi hat?  I understand the single zone trigger to the module as well as the controller to the module function but the 3.5mm jack into the controller itself has me baffled. I am going to Jman's stealth hi hat trigger on a set of 13" Sabians with cymgard lites and am wondering if the pro x controller will work but am having doubts because of that 3.5mm connection. I will go to a different controller if necessary but just wondering if I can rig up something with the pro x after knowing the function of the lower cymbal sensor and connection.  I realize it will still be single zone. Thanks.

Offline Hellfire

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 10:45:41 AM »
Greetings all! Has anyone ever figured out what the function of the lower cymbal with the switch and 3.5mm jack does on the pro x hi hat?  I understand the single zone trigger to the module as well as the controller to the module function but the 3.5mm jack into the controller itself has me baffled. I am going to Jman's stealth hi hat trigger on a set of 13" Sabians with cymgard lites and am wondering if the pro x controller will work but am having doubts because of that 3.5mm connection. I will go to a different controller if necessary but just wondering if I can rig up something with the pro x after knowing the function of the lower cymbal sensor and connection.  I realize it will still be single zone. Thanks.

I'm not 100% sure exactly how that switch functions with the module software as I've never taken the time to really dissect it. I assume it is used to temporarily mute the piezo in the top cymbal when closing the hats together to avoid a miss trigger. That's just my guess.

Offline AlanK

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 11:11:38 AM »
I had assumed that part under the lower hat was a pressure sensor for the spring and that connector sent the data to the module in the foot controller input.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 11:49:40 AM »
HF, thanks for the reply. Understand your not sure but if it is a momentary mute how would that work? A pressure sensitive switch that activates on each closure then releases based on a certain resistance buildup? Definitely stumpped. I am going to disconnect it and see what changes. Maybe it will clue me in or maybe not.

Allenk,  talking about the switch inside and on top of the lower hat with the 3.5mm plug going to the spring controller under the lower hat.

Offline Hellfire

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 11:50:56 AM »
I had assumed that part under the lower hat was a pressure sensor for the spring and that connector sent the data to the module in the foot controller input.

I assumed Rmiller was talking about the switch on the edge of the bottom hat. There are three sensors to the ProX hats:

- Piezo in the top hat for the zone detection
- FSR sensor under the spring for position detection
- Switch (momentary) on rim of bottom hat which I assume is for zone miss triggering when the hat closes together.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 11:54:49 AM by Hellfire »

Offline Hellfire

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 11:53:58 AM »
HF, thanks for the reply. Understand your not sure but if it is a momentary mute how would that work? A pressure sensitive switch that activates on each closure then releases based on a certain resistance buildup? Definitely stumpped. I am going to disconnect it and see what changes. Maybe it will clue me in or maybe not.

Allenk,  talking about the switch inside and on top of the lower hat with the 3.5mm plug going to the spring controller under the lower hat.

I'm pretty sure the switch on the bottom edge of the hat is a momentary (normally open) switch. The software in the DM10 would determine how the switch is interpreted.

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 12:01:34 PM »
I am wondering if its the trigger for the "chick" when using the the foot pedal only and is momentary so when you hit the upper hat once it's closed it won't fire again until being reset by opening it. Just a thought.
Can you elaborate on the mistrigger theory a little more.

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 12:03:55 PM »
Got it. When you said normally open it then made sense to me.

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 04:32:11 PM »
I disconnected the 3.5mm jack and there was absolutely no difference. Humm.

Offline AlanK

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 08:58:07 AM »
Maybe it's only needed during calibration? I vaguely recall when I first got my Pro X hats I forgot to plug that in and I couldn't calibrate.. when I connected it I was able to. Just a recolaction.. I'm turning 53 so I may be lucid or demented..or both
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 06:00:28 PM »
Thanks, I'll check it out. I hit that mark 3 years ago. When over 50 it's  called CRS (can't remeber s*#%t). :'(

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2016, 12:06:56 PM »
Hat calibrated just fine with 3.5mm jack unplugged. Go figure. I can't tell any difference one way or the other.

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 06:21:33 AM »
I experimented back and forth, and I can't find any difference either.  If that cable/jack does anything, it's very subtle.

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2016, 06:32:08 PM »
I'm about to pull the trigger on this one as well. Any recommendations on a good, economical stand?

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 09:29:57 AM »
I use a Tama speed cobra that works well, however I have the hi hat modified somewhat. For the top hat I use the original 12" that came with the dm10x and use the one from the pro x as an extra cymbal. The pro x top hat is lound and like playing on cardboard where I find the original much better. Also I use the tama hi hat clutch, not the pro x clutch and do no use the plastic spacer that goes on the controller spring. Instead i use a felt cymbal washer on top of the spring and below the clutch. I can't rember if the controller comes with a thin felt washer inside where the spring rest but i have a thin felt washer under the spring kind of pressed into the controller. This setup works really well and is as good as any single zone hi hat setup. Just calibrate it. Mine is also set on log2. I turned up the volume in the inst utility setup as well. Highly recommend this setup.

Offline AlanK

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2016, 10:14:15 AM »
Interesting. I may try removing the plastic spring cap and replacing it with a felt ring. I tried the original hi-hat as the top as well but thought it wasn't closing as it should, maybe I thought that area that houses the plug etc was too large? Are you finding it doesn't impede at all and you get good closure? I should try again.
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 09:18:19 AM »
I get good closure and it seems to calibrate well. It actually plays quite well especially using the clutch from the hi hat stand, not the prox clutch as well as the original hi hat cymbal as the upper. Just mess with the the depth the upper cymbal mounts on the clutch to get the right height with the felt cymbal washer to the spring. Can't give you an exact measurement as not all hi hat stands and clutches are created equal.

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 06:01:46 PM »
just wanted to know and i have to ask is the pro-x worth the purchase?

Offline JohnRick

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2016, 01:04:34 PM »
just wanted to know and i have to ask is the pro-x worth the purchase?

No it is not. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the pro-x hat. I have a few upper end digital kits (Yamaha) and use the DM10X in another facility. In my stupidity I splashed out the necessary amount for the Pro-x which I used two times. Apart from it not adding anything at all in terms of playability it adds a huge amount of ambient volume (noise) though when you strike it. Unbearable. I use the stock hat. Much, much better.

Offline Rmiller

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2016, 07:31:18 AM »
I think it is worth it but only if you use the original hi hat cymbal as the upper and you want to use a real hi hat stand. Read my previous write -ups. Its a controller that is compatible with hihat stands and the DM10 module is what you really want. You can use any cymbals you want. You could also gut the DM10's original foot controller and somehow mount it in the foot pedal area of a real hihat stand. Use your imagination as how to mount it.

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2016, 12:31:42 PM »
I had to chime in here. This is my first post. I gig with a td 30 and have since it came out. I picked up a used dm10 studio kit wicked cheap for a practice kit at home.Need less to say coming from the VH-13 to the separate pedal and cymbal for the the high hat left me disappointed, so I bought the Alesis prox hats.i was disappointed with these as well , until I found out how to set them up properly!!!

The lower hat with its small connector does nothing if you're useing the original mono cable that came with your kit( that's why you see no difference when you disconnect it) , in fact it is unbearable.its triggering is unpredictable , half open hats are constantly chocking off etc,etc.

You must use the stereo TRS cable that came with the hats on the controller to the module!! The top hat input is mono,yes,but the controller input is stereo.After its connected with a TRS cable , you get extra settings for the pedal. You can set separate velocity curves for the pedal and the top trigger.which I highly recommend playing with.Very happy with the pro X hats now!they will operate all together differently and amazingly smooth when connected with the proper cable.

Hope this helps!

Offline AlanK

Re: ProX hi hat lower cymbal function
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2016, 10:46:14 AM »
I was surprised and interested when I found your other post about this in another topic, and can't wait to double check at home tonight.. but on the other hand, I do already have velocity settings for both pedal and hats in my module, so I'm thinking maybe I did use the right TRS connector for the controller input.. if that's the case, I shouldn't get too excited about improved performance  :-[   and I've been telling people my setup isn't "too" bad.. I've gotten it to be semi responsive.. but it could still be better so Ive got my fingers crossed that I'm using mono and it'll get even better!
DM10X with Addictive Drums 2, Pro X hi-hat, 4 crashes, foam cone conversion w Roland mesh heads, Laurin Drums snare and kick, Mapex P710W double kick pedal, Mapex 2 legged hi-hat, Behringer 8 channel USB mixer, Tascam 144MK AI, Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers