DM10 X Mesh - The way to go?

[Failed Muso]

Afternoon all!

My name's Rob and I'm about to purchase a DM10 X Mesh kit (on order, collecting on Friday) but, before I do, I thought I'd ask a few questions of the learned masses here, just to set my mind at rest.

First off, I've been a drummer now for nigh on 35 years. I've played in numerous bands, mostly local, pub and club affairs, most certainly nothing of any note  In the early 90s, after getting married and buying my first house, my (now-ex) wife persuaded me to sell my kit as I was on an unforced hiatus and so I parted with my beloved Tama Swingstar, Paiste metal and beloved Roto-Toms. As we neared the turn of the century, my step-grandfather passed away and left me some money. I'd been itching to start playing again and my marriage was on a downward spiral so I decided to invest in eletronic drums for a number of reasons. By this time, I had built a small home-studio and felt an electronic kit would fit in better from a MIDI perspective, and I just felt that eDrums would give me better value for money. So I invested in a Yamaha DTXpress as a starting point and found a band looking for a drummer. We gigged a lot and the DTXpress held up pretty well. After some years, and some pretty awful lead singer ego/band politics crap, I left and the drums once again started gathering dust, being pulled out every now and again just to blow the cobwebs off, both literally and figuratively.

In the mean time, I went back to my small studio and actually ended up doing some freelance work for Alesis and Akai, including working with Steve Howell, the guy who originally assembled the DM10's library. I still have my prototype DM10 module here, although it has developed a fault that means it is silent  We worked on the Fusion workstation too (I programmed a lot of the internal drum patterns), as well as Akai rack samplers and MPC's. During this time, I decided to buy a DM10 kit, back when they first introduced the Real Heads. Sadly, just as I was about to pull the trigger, my car developed some serious faults and all the money I had saved was spent on putting that right.

So now I find myself in the market again, as my DTXpress is too long in the tooth to do what I need, and I have the chance to rejoin an old band and go gigging again. And the DM10 X Mesh seems to be the best option, particularly from a cost perspective when compared to V-Drums.

What I wanted to know, having read through some of the posts here, is if I am getting into something that is worthwhile as far as the gear is concerned. From a hardware perspective, the kit looks solid and well specified, and the DM10 module has some reasonable kits in there, but is it all about to become obsolete with the advent of the Strike kit, even though it looks like the Roland law suit is holding that up? It's also considerably more money.

My plan is to buy the X Mesh kit and add the Pro-X hats a little further down the line. I've looked into additional kit libraries and can only find the now-deleted Blue Jay, which is disappointing. Are there any other 3rd party libraries out there? Also, is it possible to build your own kit from your own samples? I have a huge amount of samples from my days working with Steve that I could use, but can't find a way of building my own kits to upload. Sadly, Steve passed away a couple of years ago and I'm sure he had a kit assembly tool, but it is lost and even if I had it, it probably wouldn't work on the latest OS's

I also plan to use my old DTXpress kit to augment the DM10 X, using the drum and cymbal pads as percussion triggers, possibly using the DTXpress brain for some sounds too. All of this will be fed into a mixer for live work. I'm happy to use a laptop and/or iPad (I have an Alesis iO Dock that could be employed for this) but I'd rather keep that to a minimum. I used to hook my DTXpress up to my Akai S6000 sampler to increase my sound library. It's a hefty beast, but solid as a rock.

I guess all I am looking for is opinions on whether I'm making a sound investment at this time. I figure that I can upgrade the DM10 module should the Strike module finally surface.

All reasoned comments are welcome and I thank you in advance for your assistance.

[Hellfire]

Welcome to the forum Rob.

I don't own a DM10 X mesh kit. I own the DM10 Pro Kit (from 2009). I haven't seen many complaints with the X mesh kit itself. I do know that Pro-X hats are hit or miss. People either like them or hate them, no in between. There are no other 3rd party sound sets available. To be honest, with your early involvement with the DM10 I figured you would have known about the 3rd party sound sets not happening. Unfortunately the DM10 doesn't allow users to upload their own samples, so no you can not build your own sound sets.

That's cool you still have your Proto DM10. I've only seen one (supposedly) prototype DM10. Does yours look like this:



It would be great if you could post a picture of your DM10.
BTW, have you checked your power supply to your DM10. Many times that is the reason DM10's tend to stop working.

[Failed Muso]

Hi Hellfire!

Yeah, I can't find too many bad words said about the Mesh variant of the DM10 X so I'm hopefully going to be fine with it. The really annoying thing is that I haven't found a dealer near me with a unit set up in-store for demo purposes. Loads of the lower end Alesis stuff, or Rolly/Yammy kits, but no Alesis Mesh heads, so against my better judgement, I'm going in blind, but the dealer has assured me they will honour a cool off period should I hate it. I very much doubt it will be the case though.

Regarding 3rd party sets, my involvement was very early stages and was mainly from a sample conversion and cataloguing process. I remember Steve telling me he had the dev tools to build out the kits but I sadly never got those and my involvement on the project finished way before release. It's a really big shame because the buzz was all about "expandability" and "customisation" so it is disappointing that the sole expansion got pulled and nothing else emerged, either from sample devs or owners. As far as I recall, the kit building tool was a fairly straight-forward affair that (I think) involved dragging and dropping the various sample layers into place and then the application did the packaging. But it was some while ago now. But all of this smacks of striking familiarity from my time working with the folks at Alesis and Akai. Once O'Donnell took them over, many corners got cut, many promises were made and not kept and many good people left the business, voluntary or otherwise. A big shame.

My prototype DM10 was quite a late one. It has no serial number (neither on the base, where it has another code, nor internally within the OS) and was sent to me by Steve after we'd finished work on the project because he thought I might be able to make use of it with my existing kit. But as I said, it does everything except output audio. There is zero output at either the main or aux outs or the headphone jack. A brief internal inspection yields no obvious problems and I'm afraid I lack the knowledge to investigate further. One other noticeable thing is the rubber jog wheel, which has now become tacky and showing signs of degradation, which is odd as it never got exposed to anything that might cause that. I had a similar issue with a zoom ring on an old Sigma lens on my SLR many years ago. Still, it will remain here for use as spares, should the need ever arise. As for the power supply, I never had the official one and have simply used a universal wall-wart supply set to the correct voltage and polarity.

Anyway, many thanks for your response. I hope to be collecting the kit on Friday and will spend the weekend getting reacquainted before I enter rehearsals with the rest of the band

[Hellfire]

Regarding 3rd party sets, my involvement was very early stages and was mainly from a sample conversion and cataloguing process. I remember Steve telling me he had the dev tools to build out the kits but I sadly never got those and my involvement on the project finished way before release. It's a really big shame because the buzz was all about "expandability" and "customisation" so it is disappointing that the sole expansion got pulled and nothing else emerged, either from sample devs or owners. As far as I recall, the kit building tool was a fairly straight-forward affair that (I think) involved dragging and dropping the various sample layers into place and then the application did the packaging. But it was some while ago now.

I have to ask only because this was a very big deal when the sound sets never really happened. Is there a way for you to get the dev software?

Many of us have tried to crack the DM10 sound set stuff for years but we always hit some kind of road block because none of us have access to the dev software. It would be tremendous if we were able to get that software. Alesis is just about ready to discontinue the DM10 and it would be very nice if the sound set software was available for some of us to play with. Sorry if this sound very forward, but you are literally the first person I ever conversed with in seven years to ever say they "knew of" or "saw" the dev software for the DM10 module sound sets.

BTW, it was such a big deal that you can find large topics on our forum about it.

All of the known sound sets went to the Pearl REDbox. Basically Alesis made a deal with Pearl to rebrand the DM10 as the Pearl REDbox. Pearl is just about ready to discontinue the REDbox with the new Pearl Mimic module.

My prototype DM10 was quite a late one. It has no serial number (neither on the base, where it has another code, nor internally within the OS) and was sent to me by Steve after we'd finished work on the project because he thought I might be able to make use of it with my existing kit. But as I said, it does everything except output audio. There is zero output at either the main or aux outs or the headphone jack. A brief internal inspection yields no obvious problems and I'm afraid I lack the knowledge to investigate further. One other noticeable thing is the rubber jog wheel, which has now become tacky and showing signs of degradation, which is odd as it never got exposed to anything that might cause that. I had a similar issue with a zoom ring on an old Sigma lens on my SLR many years ago. Still, it will remain here for use as spares, should the need ever arise. As for the power supply, I never had the official one and have simply used a universal wall-wart supply set to the correct voltage and polarity.

Have you tried to reset the module? If I remember correctly press and hold the EXIT and STORE buttons simultaneously while turning it on. That should restore the module to defaults. Don't know if that would help but its worth a shot.

Also, since you stated it has no serial number I was wondering what serial number is stored in the module. There is a way to check. See this topic:

[DM10] TEST MODE

In that topic it shows you how to access the service test mode. This would have been used by Alesis to check things in the module. I was just curious if you really don't have a serial number on the module. 

BTW, thanks for the images of your DM10 module. I can seen a couple differences from the production model.

[Failed Muso]

I appreciate your reasons for asking and I'd be doing the exact same thing. However, I never received that dev software. That was all Steve's domain, and Steve sadly passed away a couple of years ago, so there's no way of me getting it. To be fair, Steve's association with Alesis ended shortly after the DM10 launch. After many years of service to Akai Japan, they treated him like shit and he eventually couldn't stand the crap and went his own way, forging a hugely successful path with his Hollow Sun brand.

And come to think of it, even if I did have access to that stuff, my signing of numerous NDA's would legally prevent me sharing 

It's a crying shame that all that stuff went to Pearl. I don't think I know anyone else left at Alesis that I could reach out to. Like I said, all the good guys moved on to companies that appreciated their talent.

Regarding my prototype module, I did try resetting, updating firmwares and all that jazz, to no avail. The unit has no serial number at all, even if you go into the diag mode, it just shows up as FAILED when you interrogate the serial number (see attached). And it also fails the Audio test in diag so there is something far deeper afoot.

Thanks anyway 

[Hellfire]

I appreciate your reasons for asking and I'd be doing the exact same thing. However, I never received that dev software. That was all Steve's domain, and Steve sadly passed away a couple of years ago, so there's no way of me getting it. To be fair, Steve's association with Alesis ended shortly after the DM10 launch. After many years of service to Akai Japan, they treated him like shit and he eventually couldn't stand the crap and went his own way, forging a hugely successful path with his Hollow Sun brand.

I'm sorry to hear about Steve. I would love to know details to his involvement was with the DM10. They only person I ever talked to about the DM10 was Jim Norman (now working for Simmons/Guitar Center).

And come to think of it, even if I did have access to that stuff, my signing of numerous NDA's would legally prevent me sharing 

I didn't even think of that.

Regarding my prototype module, I did try resetting, updating firmwares and all that jazz, to no avail. The unit has no serial number at all, even if you go into the diag mode, it just shows up as FAILED when you interrogate the serial number (see attached). And it also fails the Audio test in diag so there is something far deeper afoot.

Thanks anyway 

That sucks. I was really hoping it would be something simple. The only other thing I can think of doing (that's assuming you want to maintain using your Prototype) is to find a used DM10 and swap out the main CPU card. Then again you could just use the used DM10, but that would be one way to keep your prototype working. That's assuming the inside of you porto is the same as a production DM10.

[hameedx]

Sorry if this might be a silly question, but you said you use a "universal wall-wart supply". The universal power supplies at Wal-Mart are usually AC/DC power supplies. The DM10 uses an AC/AC power supply.

I had a DM5 that I bought without a power supply. It powered on with an AC/DC power supply, but didn't work properly. Worked fine when I got an AC/AC power supply for it.

Check if your power supply is AC/DC. If it is, then that might be why you are not getting audio.

[Failed Muso]

I'm sorry to hear about Steve. I would love to know details to his involvement was with the DM10. They only person I ever talked to about the DM10 was Jim Norman (now working for Simmons/Guitar Center).

Yup, used to deal with Jim quite a bit. Like I said, the good guys went where they were better appreciated 

Steve originally worked for Akai Japan, starting back in the late 80s. He was their cheif sample guy, using his incredible skills to get big sounds from small samples. He was responsible for many sample libraries and UI designs on things like the S-Series rack mounted sampler to MPC's. When Akai Japan tanked and O'Donnell bought the brand up, Steve was initially dumped but then re-recruited (on a lesser deal, natch) and proceeded to work on the MPC500, 5000, Fusion Workstation, SR18, DM10 and many more. He drafted me in as a freelance to help with the sampling, testing and programming. I recall that when he got the DM10 gig, he was less than impressed because the limitations were quite harsh in terms of what he wanted to do with the sample content. I believe it was one of, if not, the last projects he worked on for them before he went his own way to pursue his Hollow Sun sample library brand. Up until his untimely passing in 2014, he was doing so well with it, but he succumbed to his illness and that was that 

As with many of the companies I've dealt with, particularly the U.S. ones, NDAs are part and parcel of the gig. You pretty much can't fart in a particular way that might divulge their business 

And my DM10 is no great loss. I think as a donor unit for spares it will be just fine.

Sorry if this might be a silly question, but you said you use a "universal wall-wart supply". The universal power supplies at Wal-Mart are usually AC/DC power supplies. The DM10 uses an AC/AC power supply.

I had a DM5 that I bought without a power supply. It powered on with an AC/DC power supply, but didn't work properly. Worked fine when I got an AC/AC power supply for it.

Check if your power supply is AC/DC. If it is, then that might be why you are not getting audio.

That's a good point and I'll check that out before giving up on it

Which brings me on to my next bit of news....

I just heard back from my dealer and apparently, they can't get hold of the DM10 X Mesh because they don't actually have one in their warehouse. But the bigger news is that they called InMusic who have told them that the DM10 X has been discontinued!! 

To be honest, I'm not surprised, what with the advent of the Strike (if it ever happens) and the newer Crimson Mesh kits. So, today I shall be researching the alternatives and there maybe an expanded Crimson kit in my near future 

Any info you guys have on that paticular model would be useful, particularly the new module.

[Hellfire]

Steve originally worked for Akai Japan, starting back in the late 80s. He was their cheif sample guy, using his incredible skills to get big sounds from small samples. He was responsible for many sample libraries and UI designs on things like the S-Series rack mounted sampler to MPC's. When Akai Japan tanked and O'Donnell bought the brand up, Steve was initially dumped but then re-recruited (on a lesser deal, natch) and proceeded to work on the MPC500, 5000, Fusion Workstation, SR18, DM10 and many more. He drafted me in as a freelance to help with the sampling, testing and programming. I recall that when he got the DM10 gig, he was less than impressed because the limitations were quite harsh in terms of what he wanted to do with the sample content. I believe it was one of, if not, the last projects he worked on for them before he went his own way to pursue his Hollow Sun sample library brand. Up until his untimely passing in 2014, he was doing so well with it, but he succumbed to his illness and that was that 

Good information. Thanks for sharing.

Which brings me on to my next bit of news....

I just heard back from my dealer and apparently, they can't get hold of the DM10 X Mesh because they don't actually have one in their warehouse. But the bigger news is that they called InMusic who have told them that the DM10 X has been discontinued!! 

That is big news!

To be honest, I'm not surprised, what with the advent of the Strike (if it ever happens) and the newer Crimson Mesh kits. So, today I shall be researching the alternatives and there maybe an expanded Crimson kit in my near future 

Any info you guys have on that paticular model would be useful, particularly the new module.

The only info I can give you is in this topic:

New Alesis Drum Module "Crimson" with New Kit that has red pads with mesh heads?

[Failed Muso]

So I'm really in a quandary right now. I'd really set my heart on the DM10 X Mesh, mainly because of the number and sizes of pads and cymbals. I really liked the look of 2x10" and 2x12" Toms and having the option for two crashes and a ride was appealing also. The Crimson's 2x8" and single 10" Toms are ok, but I had really warmed to the idea of larger playing surfaces.

As for the Crimson module, it certainly doesn't seem as flexible. First off, the module's clamp is also the main pad connection point via the built in D-Connector. Not only is that quite an important connection to have residing in the clamp, but limits connectivity with only 2 regular pad jacks at the rear. However, it does seem to have the ability to load in user samples and kits, but I can't find anything that tells me if I can layer these samples on a single pad, similar to the dynamic articulation factory feature. If I have a nice multi-sampled snare I want to use, it seems like I can only load in one sample per pad. And if I want to change up the module, that means buying new leads for all the pads too because of the bespoke cable loom.

There's no way I can stretch to a Roland V-Drum kit, so I don't know whether to go for the Crimson and add an extra 10" or 12" floor tom pad and cymbal, or see if I can find a store with a DM10 X Mesh left in stock that isn't ex-demo. And even then, I'm not sure I want to buy a kit that is about to become obsolete. And even if I could afford a Strike, there's no telling if or when it might finally be released.

GAHH!!! 

<goes back to online research!>

[AlanK]

Hey FM, I'm sure you would be able to find either a DM10X with original mesh, or converted to mesh, for sale somewhere used. Especially if the Strike does come out next month, there'd be a number of buyers wanting to sell their DM10Xs to get the Strike. Don't give up hope yet.

I myself also spent a long time prior to purchase a couple years ago looking at the expensive Rolands, Hart, Yamaha etc and found the biggest bang for the buck was Alesis but also just had to go for the X version wanting the larger toms, the snare stand, 2 crashes and the better module.

Over time I've changed mine up.. first thing converted the realheads to mesh. Then added an 8" upper tom to make it look and feel more like a nice fusion or progressive rock kind of set. Then went and bought a larger snare and kick from Laurin Drums. Still cheaper than a Roland or the new Strike will be but loads of fun to play!

[Failed Muso]

Hey FM, I'm sure you would be able to find either a DM10X with original mesh, or converted to mesh, for sale somewhere used. Especially if the Strike does come out next month, there'd be a number of buyers wanting to sell their DM10Xs to get the Strike. Don't give up hope yet.

I myself also spent a long time prior to purchase a couple years ago looking at the expensive Rolands, Hart, Yamaha etc and found the biggest bang for the buck was Alesis but also just had to go for the X version wanting the larger toms, the snare stand, 2 crashes and the better module.

Over time I've changed mine up.. first thing converted the realheads to mesh. Then added an 8" upper tom to make it look and feel more like a nice fusion or progressive rock kind of set. Then went and bought a larger snare and kick from Laurin Drums. Still cheaper than a Roland or the new Strike will be but loads of fun to play!

I think I am going to have to learn to accept that the DM10 X is going to be a no-no. After a day of researching online and calling various retailers, they are all showing no new stock, a couple of ex-demos and nothing more. I'd rather buy new and get a warranty, if I'm honest.

The more I think about it, I think I will go for the Crimson (the Strike is out of my current budget) and just slowly add to it over time. My local dealer says that he can get the new Crimson pads from December 2016 and a 10" Crimson pad will retail for about £95 (that's if the GBP £ doesn't tank anymore!!).

I have a couple of days to mull it over, but I think that's where I'm headed.

[rhysT]

My prototype DM10 was quite a late one. It has no serial number (neither on the base, where it has another code, nor internally within the OS) and was sent to me by Steve after we'd finished work on the project because he thought I might be able to make use of it with my existing kit. But as I said, it does everything except output audio. There is zero output at either the main or aux outs or the headphone jack. A brief internal inspection yields no obvious problems and I'm afraid I lack the knowledge to investigate further. One other noticeable thing is the rubber jog wheel, which has now become tacky and showing signs of degradation, which is odd as it never got exposed to anything that might cause that. I had a similar issue with a zoom ring on an old Sigma lens on my SLR many years ago. Still, it will remain here for use as spares, should the need ever arise. As for the power supply, I never had the official one and have simply used a universal wall-wart supply set to the correct voltage and polarity.

Sorry if this might be a silly question, but you said you use a "universal wall-wart supply". The universal power supplies at Wal-Mart are usually AC/DC power supplies. The DM10 uses an AC/AC power supply.

I had a DM5 that I bought without a power supply. It powered on with an AC/DC power supply, but didn't work properly. Worked fine when I got an AC/AC power supply for it.

Check if your power supply is AC/DC. If it is, then that might be why you are not getting audio.

FM, I'm curious if your prototype module's power IN is labelled 9V AC or DC as you mentioned the universal wall-wart supply was set to the correct polarity. I'd expect more than just the audio output to not function properly if the wrong AC or DC supply was used.

Btw, I've sent you a message with another possible option.

[Failed Muso]

FM, I'm curious if your prototype module's power IN is labelled 9V AC or DC as you mentioned the universal wall-wart supply was set to the correct polarity. I'd expect more than just the audio output to not function properly if the wrong AC or DC supply was used.

Btw, I've sent you a message with another possible option.

It shows 9V AC (see attached pic)

I'll respond to your PM shortly

[rhysT]

It shows 9V AC (see attached pic)

OK the power adapter label should reveal if it's output is AC or DC.
FYI, my original power supply measures 12V AC at the plug contacts.
Also did the DM10 audio output problem develop soon after you got it?   

[Failed Muso]

OK a pic of the power adapter label should reveal if it's output is AC or DC.
FYI, my original power supply measures 12V AC at the plug contacts.
Also did the DM10 audio output problem develop soon after you got it?

I can't put my hands on the adapter at the moment but will in the next day or two. I'm pretty sure it's an AC output.

The module has never output audio since Steve sent it to me all those years ago, I'm afraid.

[Failed Muso]

Well, I picked up my Crimson Mesh kit today! I've just set it up in a basic fashion to make sure everything was present, correct and functioning. Happy to report it passed all the tests

Also happy to see that my old Yamaha pads work with the module, so I've instantly added a splash cymbal to the rig. I'll add a TP65 Pad to it tomorrow and set it up for some worthy purpose. Still hoping to use the remaining Yamaha pads as percussion triggers, utilising the Yamaha module as a sound source. Also looking forward to trying the USB MIDI connectivity to drive a lovely sampled Tama kit library I have

Thanks for all the advice so far!

[AlanK]

fine looking setup you have there, FM!

[Failed Muso]

Sorry if this might be a silly question, but you said you use a "universal wall-wart supply". The universal power supplies at Wal-Mart are usually AC/DC power supplies. The DM10 uses an AC/AC power supply.

I had a DM5 that I bought without a power supply. It powered on with an AC/DC power supply, but didn't work properly. Worked fine when I got an AC/AC power supply for it.

Check if your power supply is AC/DC. If it is, then that might be why you are not getting audio.

This was exactly the problem! Thanks for the heads up!

[hameedx]

Sorry if this might be a silly question, but you said you use a "universal wall-wart supply". The universal power supplies at Wal-Mart are usually AC/DC power supplies. The DM10 uses an AC/AC power supply.

I had a DM5 that I bought without a power supply. It powered on with an AC/DC power supply, but didn't work properly. Worked fine when I got an AC/AC power supply for it.

Check if your power supply is AC/DC. If it is, then that might be why you are not getting audio.

This was exactly the problem! Thanks for the heads up!

So the DM10 is working fine with an AC/AC adapter right?

[Failed Muso]

So the DM10 is working fine with an AC/AC adapter right?

Yup, perfectly

[hameedx]

That is great news! Now you can use it with the Crimson kit. Everything should be compatible.

[Failed Muso]

That is great news! Now you can use it with the Crimson kit. Everything should be compatible.

It is but I need to buy some new cables. The Crimson comes with a custom loom with a bespoke D-connector to hook up to the module and my old Yamaha cables are mono so won't support the dual zone pads and cymbals. Small problem, but I can't find a genuine DM10 loom for sale anywhere in the UK Guess I'll have to buy the cable individually.

[rhysT]

Small problem, but I can't find a genuine DM10 loom for sale anywhere in the UK

Until you get a set of TRS cables for the DM10 module, you could trigger it from your Crimson kit via a Midi cable.
Refer to this DM10 midi map: http://www.hellfiredrums.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/DM10-Midi-Note-Map.pdf

[Failed Muso]

Small problem, but I can't find a genuine DM10 loom for sale anywhere in the UK

Until you get a set of TRS cables for the DM10 module, you could trigger it from your Crimson kit via a Midi cable.
Refer to this DM10 midi map: http://www.hellfiredrums.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/DM10-Midi-Note-Map.pdf

I did wonder if that might be an option. I guess the Crimson unit would handle the trigger sensitivity, X-talk and threshold settings and the DM10 would just trigger the appropriate samples?