Author Topic: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems  (Read 4800 times)

Offline topmonkey

DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« on: December 30, 2013, 05:28:54 AM »
I am trying to get my DM Lite talking to my computer via MIDI using a USB connection. On the PC side of things I am using Cakewalk Sonar X1.
My problem is when I hit the hi-hat pad on the DM Lite, it transmits a hi-hat open message, whether the pedal is up or down. I can't get it to transmit a hi-hat closed message at all.
Is this a DM Lite problem or a Sonar problem? And is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks,
Mike.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 05:30:36 AM by topmonkey »

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 06:33:06 AM »
Try listening for CC#4 for HH position.

According to the manual the DM lite should send MIDI note #46 for open and #44 for closed.
http://alesis.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/25/4e806daa32e7a9da4e89abded5411c5c/file/dm_lite_module_user_guide_v1.2.pdf
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 06:38:31 AM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 06:45:57 AM »
Receiving #46 for open and #46+cc#4 for hi-hat.
How can I fix this?

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 06:43:47 AM »
Either see if there is any setting for the Dm Lite you can change, or see if your VST software can read CC#4 for hi hat messages.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 07:45:32 AM »
Not possible to change any settings on the DM Lite as far as I am aware and there's nothing in the manual.
I downloaded a demo of Addictive Drums and it managed to decode the CC#4 messages into correct hi-hat notes so maybe I will have to buy new software!

Offline Hellfire

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 02:58:26 PM »
Try listening for CC#4 for HH position.

According to the manual the DM lite should send MIDI note #46 for open and #44 for closed.
http://alesis.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/25/4e806daa32e7a9da4e89abded5411c5c/file/dm_lite_module_user_guide_v1.2.pdf

If the DM lite sends a midi note for open and midi note for closed hi-hat then it doesn't send CC#4. The DM lite is not capable of sending variable hi-hat messages. I would guess the hi-hat control pedal is just a switch. So setting up the VST to recognize CC#4 isn't going to do any good.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 04:13:36 PM by Hellfire »
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 05:51:08 PM »
The manual is incorrect

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 01:22:00 AM »
If the DM lite sends a midi note for open and midi note for closed hi-hat then it doesn't send CC#4. The DM lite is not capable of sending variable hi-hat messages. I would guess the hi-hat control pedal is just a switch. So setting up the VST to recognize CC#4 isn't going to do any good.
Other Alesis modules (like the Dm10) can send different MIDI notes in addition to CC messages.
I don't know the particulars of the DM Lite module, though..
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 06:04:04 AM »
I don't believe it is possible to change any settings on the DM Lite.

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 11:52:44 AM »
Try installing MIDIOX and monitor which MIDI signals the module sends when you open, close and hit the hi-hat.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 12:14:53 PM »
Open = note 46
Pedal = note 42
Closed = note 46 + CC4

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 12:33:18 PM »
Do you get a continuous CC#4 when moving the pedal, or is the signal only sent when an open hi-hat is struck? And - is the CC#4 on/off (0 or 127) or any number in between?
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2014, 01:10:08 PM »
Only sends CC#4 when closed hi-hat is struck and it is any number in between 0-127.

Offline Hellfire

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2014, 01:22:15 PM »
From the Alesis website under the DM Lite Kit page:

"Two foot pedals complete the DM Lite Kit kit. The first is a hi-hat open/closed momentary control pedal."

With the above info the DM lite is not capable (at least in its stock configuration) to send variable hi-hat CC#4 signals. The hi-hat control pedal is only an "ON" "OFF" switch. This is typical of Alesis drum modules in the "affordable" rage (i.e. DM Lite, DM6, DM7 and DM7x). The only modules Alesis make that are capable of CC#4 is the Trigger I/O, DM8 and DM10.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2014, 02:21:36 PM »
Only sends CC#4 when closed hi-hat is struck and it is any number in between 0-127.
Any number? So - it is variable according to how much the pedal is pressed down?
If so, you can translate that in your VST software to half-open hi-hat sounds, and you can get a sloshed hi-hat. You won't get any heel splash detection, but as long as you get a separate note for closed hi-hat, you don't need the continuous CC#4 values, so CC#4 sent only when the hat is hit should be fine to get a nice variable hi-hat. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2014, 02:23:23 PM »
With the above info the DM lite is not capable (at least in its stock configuration) to send variable hi-hat CC#4 signals. The hi-hat control pedal is only an "ON" "OFF" switch. This is typical of Alesis drum modules in the "affordable" rage (i.e. DM Lite, DM6, DM7 and DM7x). The only modules Alesis make that are capable of CC#4 is the Trigger I/O, DM8 and DM10.
Sure - the Trigger I/O, DM8 and DM10 send the CC#4 every time you move the pedal the slightest, but if the DM Lite sends a correct variable CC#4 along with the hi-hat note, then you can get a variable hi-hat, and not just open/closed. :)
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline Hellfire

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 11:01:54 AM »
With the above info the DM lite is not capable (at least in its stock configuration) to send variable hi-hat CC#4 signals. The hi-hat control pedal is only an "ON" "OFF" switch. This is typical of Alesis drum modules in the "affordable" rage (i.e. DM Lite, DM6, DM7 and DM7x). The only modules Alesis make that are capable of CC#4 is the Trigger I/O, DM8 and DM10.
Sure - the Trigger I/O, DM8 and DM10 send the CC#4 every time you move the pedal the slightest, but if the DM Lite sends a correct variable CC#4 along with the hi-hat note, then you can get a variable hi-hat, and not just open/closed. :)

It might, but not in its stock configuration. The kit only comes with a momentary switch hi-hat pedal. That can only produce an "on" or an "off". By definition a momentary switch can not produces a variable signal.

The only way to know for sure is to plug in a variable hi-hat control pedal and --hope-- the module auto recognizes that type of controller. The reason I say "hope" is because there is nothing on the module that lets you set the type of hi-hat control pedal (unless of course I missed something in the manual).

The CC#4 being sent by the module when the pedal is depressed may just be so more VST's are compatible with the hi-hat control. I believe some VST's only see a closed hi-hat when there is a CC#4 signal. If that is the case, the module is just sending the CC#4 to make sure the VST can have a closed hi-hat sound when playing.  Again, the only real way to know is if topmonkey has a variable hi-hat pedal that he can plug into his DM Lite kit and test with the VST. It might work, but it is a shot in the dark and being an Alesis module on the more affordable end its hard to image that capability is in there. Heck, it may be in there and just blocked by the programing in the module. I wouldn't put that past Alesis either.
For more edrum info, be sure to visit my web site at:
          www.HellfireDrums.com                    
My current set-up:  Alesis DM10 and Trigger I/O with modified & DIY pads

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2014, 12:27:56 PM »
Here are the messages being generated in MIDI-Ox if this helps?

Open Hi-Hat (hit pad with pedal up):
0 Par  ch=10 c=4 v=0
0 On   ch=10 n=46 v=30
0 Off  ch=10 n=46 v=64

Pedal Splash (quick press and release on pedal):
0 PoPr ch=10 n=46 v=127
0 PoPr ch=10 n=21 v=127
0 On   ch=10 n=44 v=34
0 Off  ch=10 n=44 v=64

Closed Hi-Hat (pedal pressed down then hit pad):
[pedal press]
0 PoPr ch=10 n=46 v=127
0 PoPr ch=10 n=21 v=127
0 On   ch=10 n=44 v=14
0 Off  ch=10 n=44 v=64
[pad hit]
506 Par  ch=10 c=4 v=124
506 On   ch=10 n=46 v=38
506 Off  ch=10 n=46 v=64

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2014, 12:37:18 PM »
Strange - a #44 when closing the pedal, and #46 when you hit it?
Can you get various values for the CC4 when hitting the pedal half-open?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 12:40:04 PM by Trondster »
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2014, 12:39:40 PM »
Yes
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 12:42:15 PM by topmonkey »

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2014, 12:47:49 PM »
The other thing that I thought was odd was that I don't get any message through when I release the pedal after hitting the pad.

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »
The other thing that I thought was odd was that I don't get any message through when I release the pedal after hitting the pad.
On the more advanced modules you get continuous CC#4 messages whenever you move the pedal at all - on the DM Lite you only get CC#4 when hitting the cymbal.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline topmonkey

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2014, 01:49:46 PM »
Do you think my DM Lite is defective? Or is it meant to be like this?

Offline Trondster

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2014, 02:10:56 PM »
Do you think my DM Lite is defective? Or is it meant to be like this?
I think it's supposed to be like that.
DM10 Pro kit with dampened rack, extra crashes, mesh heads, Gibraltar stands, P2002C and a dream cherry snare by Diamond Drums.

Offline MaciekC

Re: DM Lite MIDI Hi-Hat Problems
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »
If anyone is still looking for a solution to this (and uses linux), I wrote a simple, open-source, ALSA-based fix:

https://github.com/MaciekChudek/DMLITE_remapper