Author Topic: New Roland kits\Module ?  (Read 9132 times)

Online ChrisK

New Roland kits\Module ?
« on: August 15, 2016, 05:12:32 PM »
Hi,

Roland TD-30 kits dropped price in most stores, and preparing for a new Module\kits or something, to me it look like a new direction they will take, (not COSM+ PCM WAV) why I am thinking this? Roland asked before users what they want for their next module and most reply was VST sound multilayers type, in my case at that time I told them, touch screen, color screen, and vst multi-sample and imports as well.

Another Hint, I saw several Roland member with Famous Artist in studio such as Simmons Phillips with his drum ready to be recorded...

-From: Allan from DD review "had several hint TD-50 will be released as new module"
-From a customer: "I bought a TD25 two weeks ago and the shop owner told me that the TD30's are coming down in price due to a new model being released soon"

If Alesis keep it delayed Strike they might released the last one, just saying..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 06:40:54 PM by ChrisK »

Online Hellfire

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 08:47:11 PM »
Hi,

Roland TD-30 kits dropped price in most stores, and preparing for a new Module\kits or something, to me it look like a new direction they will take, (not COSM+ PCM WAV) why I am thinking this? Roland asked before users what they want for their next module and most reply was VST sound multilayers type, in my case at that time I told them, touch screen, color screen, and vst multi-sample and imports as well.

Another Hint, I saw several Roland member with Famous Artist in studio such as Simmons Phillips with his drum ready to be recorded...

-From: Allan from DD review "had several hint TD-50 will be released as new module"
-From a customer: "I bought a TD25 two weeks ago and the shop owner told me that the TD30's are coming down in price due to a new model being released soon"

If Alesis keep it delayed Strike they might released the last one, just saying..

What bothers me about speculation (either with Alesis or Roland) these days is nobody ever has a sense of history. There used to be a time when people would say, "Well, what has company X done in the past?". Basically look at past actions to help predict possible future things form these companies. Nobody does this anymore. It isn't that difficult to look back on these forums and look for "patterns" in these companies' behaviors.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind speculation. It's kind of like guessing, but when I guess, I try to make educated guesses. I do this by basing it on some kind of track record. That way there is something tangible or realistic about the guess.

For instance, did you know that when the Roland TD-20 did something very similar half way through its life, they even started to disappear from stock? Then we found out that Roland was coming out with a new module (because that's what the retailers told us). It turned out to be the Roland TD-20x. Yep, a slight upgrade to the previous module. The Roland TD-30 didn't come out for another few years.

Just a little something to keep in mind.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 08:48:56 PM by Hellfire »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 09:36:52 PM »
Hi,

Roland TD-30 kits dropped price in most stores, and preparing for a new Module\kits or something, to me it look like a new direction they will take, (not COSM+ PCM WAV) why I am thinking this? Roland asked before users what they want for their next module and most reply was VST sound multilayers type, in my case at that time I told them, touch screen, color screen, and vst multi-sample and imports as well.

Another Hint, I saw several Roland member with Famous Artist in studio such as Simmons Phillips with his drum ready to be recorded...

-From: Allan from DD review "had several hint TD-50 will be released as new module"
-From a customer: "I bought a TD25 two weeks ago and the shop owner told me that the TD30's are coming down in price due to a new model being released soon"

If Alesis keep it delayed Strike they might released the last one, just saying..

What bothers me about speculation (either with Alesis or Roland) these days is nobody ever has a sense of history. There used to be a time when people would say, "Well, what has company X done in the past?". Basically look at past actions to help predict possible future things form these companies. Nobody does this anymore. It isn't that difficult to look back on these forums and look for "patterns" in these companies' behaviors.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind speculation. It's kind of like guessing, but when I guess, I try to make educated guesses. I do this by basing it on some kind of track record. That way there is something tangible or realistic about the guess.

For instance, did you know that when the Roland TD-20 did something very similar half way through its life, they even started to disappear from stock? Then we found out that Roland was coming out with a new module (because that's what the retailers told us). It turned out to be the Roland TD-20x. Yep, a slight upgrade to the previous module. The Roland TD-30 didn't come out for another few years.

Just a little something to keep in mind.

This time something is different, TD-30 don't have the expansion slots inside the module, previously Td-10\ TD-20 does have it and released the expansion cards for existent Td-10\20 owners \ and X version module cards built in for new customers, see the chart in the attach..

Question is how Roland could release a minor new Module without the ability to upgrade the existent TD-30 customer via expansion slots?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 04:49:49 AM by ChrisK »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 10:46:27 PM »
From Allan Digital Drums review Facebook:

"Are we just weeks away from a new Roland flagship module and kit?
Firstly, let me stress that I have not heard anything officially from Roland, but that is not surprising as it is just about the most secretive company in the world.

We are seeing a massive run-out of the the TD-30 kits, suggesting that Roland needs to clear dealer showrooms for a new model. I have been reliably informed by several sources that the TD-30 will be replaced by the TD-50. Roland usually launches its new products at NAMM, generally the winter edition, and the next one is in January.

That timetable makes the current run-out unusual - it means the current flagship would be discounted for more than five months. So, either we'll see a new flagship earlier than January, or there's a lot of stock to clear - which is unlikely as the TD-30 has been a huge sales success for Roland. So my guess, we may be weeks away from a new flagship.

Outside of NAMM launches, Roland also stages online launches, usually of a bunch of products, and creates some hype with a countdown. So far, no sign of that, which means it's more than a month off. That's why it looks to me like we're talking weeks rather than months"
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 10:48:43 PM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 03:04:02 AM »
What bothers me about speculation (either with Alesis or Roland) these days is nobody ever has a sense of history. There used to be a time when people would say, "Well, what has company X done in the past?". Basically look at past actions to help predict possible future things form these companies. Nobody does this anymore. It isn't that difficult to look back on these forums and look for "patterns" in these companies' behaviors.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind speculation. It's kind of like guessing, but when I guess, I try to make educated guesses. I do this by basing it on some kind of track record. That way there is something tangible or realistic about the guess.

There's some interesting Roland history available on their Aussie website (http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/company/history) but not the global site (https://www.roland.com/global/company/history/) - In 2005 they established ATV (Atelier Vision Corporation), which is managed by some experienced Roland personnel: (http://atv-global.com/about-us/atv-group) (http://www.audiotechnology.com.au/wp/index.php/rolands-founder-returns/).
So I'm curious to see how the aD5 module evolves to possibly emulate the Roland TD-30 (http://atv-global.com/music/ad5).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 08:12:44 PM by rhysT »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2016, 04:36:56 AM »
So I'm curious to see how their aD5 module evolves in relation to whatever may supersede the Roland TD-30 (http://atv-global.com/music/ad5).

Perhaps you should said TD-25 at most as comparable units?, TD-30 it's another beast in term of everything, output\inputs, sequencer, DSP,  display, editing etc.. TD-30 lifetime is done more then the half now, AD5 not even a year of lifetime.

Just think one sec, why the AD5 module is pretty much empty, no tuning, no sound editing, no pan, no dsp, no dual trigger on toms, 5 kits in total, no percussion sound, no sequencers, no usb recorder, no midi in\out\true, etc ? Another things, why ATV is relying on Mike Snider to do the sound?, if you accumulate all these from above, there is alots of things  AD5 will take a lots of time to grow if ever it will, by the time AD5 will be at average level of feature even if I don't see any of td-30 feature in AD5 complete different approach, others will already be ahead by that time.

I think Roland will surprise us this time, it's not like before, Pearl and Alesis already show their gear and they are aware of them, Roland had kind of advantage now and can surpass them, they have more advanced developer\resource then ATV\Alesis\Pearl, it's not always the first that show things are in the main positions..  NFUZD had big intention but nothing really worked well and still now..

I forgot about YAMAHA, they could hit a big home run with Steve Fisher on-board don't forget him, and Rick (Developer) as well, I don't see how AVT can compete with others Flagship module out there, unless they release a totally new Module like AD10, with many input\output, full feature on board, full sound etc.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 05:03:47 AM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 06:10:51 AM »
Regardless of what features the current Roland and ATV modules do or don't include, I guess Roland may be using ATV to develop next-gen modules at more reasonable prices, without undermining sales of their current kits too much.
Apparently Roland are sensitive about establishing ATV (Atelier Vision Corporation) as I'd previously flagged its removal from their (2005) history: https://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum-aa/off-topic-lounge/1132305-inside-story-from-a-hard-and-software-company?p=1132464#post1132464
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 06:58:03 PM by rhysT »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 11:42:31 PM »
I forgot about YAMAHA, they could hit a big home run with Steve Fisher on-board don't forget him, and Rick (Developer) as well, I don't see how ATV can compete with others Flagship module out there, unless they release a totally new Module like AD10, with many input\output, full feature on board, full sound etc.

If Yamaha can develop an edrums equivalent of their awesome Montage synth, that should be impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feOfmq2-3bo   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4mMMp9thJg
Since SF joined them I can only recall some variants of existing DTX modules and a few iOS apps being released, so they'll prob'ly wait to check out any competition for the Mimic Pro (with SSD5) at NAMM-17.

ATV might surprise us with an expanded "Artware" module, but I wonder which company Rik(deve loper) could team up with to possibly release an alternate open-source module to surpass the DrumIt-5.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 03:10:24 AM by rhysT »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 04:35:30 PM »
Here it is: will be revealed at September 9, http://tfr.roland.com/global/

I counted 10 new Edrum products, it could be module, kits, multi-pad,  pad,  hardware etc.

For the 10 new product, I have a feeling a new module sample imports\trigger with velocity layers capability (advanced TM2), like 8-12 dual triggers, for hybrid drumming and addons for TD-30 at the same time, a new module that replace the TD-11, and others are new pad\cymbals
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 06:39:28 PM by ChrisK »

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 06:46:42 PM »
We have a drum expo happening here in Melbourne this weekend so hopefully we might see something new there. Will get some pics/footage if I can.
M@

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 09:51:22 PM »
I forgot about YAMAHA, they could hit a big home run with Steve Fisher on-board don't forget him, and Rick (Developer) as well, I don't see how ATV can compete with others Flagship module out there, unless they release a totally new Module like AD10, with many input\output, full feature on board, full sound etc.

If Yamaha can develop an edrums equivalent of their awesome Montage synth, that should be impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feOfmq2-3bo   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4mMMp9thJg
Since SF joined them I can only recall some variants of existing DTX modules and a few iOS apps being released, so they'll prob'ly wait to check out any competition for the Mimic Pro (with SSD5) at NAMM-17.

ATV might surprise us with an expanded "Artware" module, but I wonder which company Rik(deve loper) could team up with to possibly release an alternate open-source module to surpass the DrumIt-5.

Yamaha should not use any keyboard reference with drum sample, this is exactly what Roland did, with pcm wav +  "COSM" and turn them with drums name, buts it's all Keyboard based ADSR, VDF, VDA, EQ, Simultaneous sound for all their "COSM" nothing more then that, there is no microphone, no shell depth, no head type, it's all EQ & tuning mimic with these name, they are not real..Adding these "COSM" + all their Roland DPS effect can make weird result with the sound.

You don't need these kind of stuff when your sample are recorded direct from studio and with quality with multi layers-round robin, you have the real drum and the real name, there is no others choice then use multi-layers-round robin sound and the most tweak you can do to avoid any sample degradation is for Roll and position sound area, others then that, any microphone position, overhead room, top snare\ bottom snare microphone should be real sample like Pearl mimic are using multilayer wav and multichannel wav 

Rick should contact Tama, like Pearl did with Pearl Mimic..Tama did have Edrum long time ago, and they had the financial and quality hardware for complete Edrum and compete with everyone.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 10:40:03 PM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 02:42:08 AM »
If Yamaha can develop an edrums equivalent of their awesome Montage synth, that should be impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feOfmq2-3bo   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4mMMp9thJg

Yamaha should not use any keyboard reference with drum sample, this is exactly what Roland did, with pcm wav +  "COSM" and turn them with drums name, buts it's all Keyboard based ADSR, VDF, VDA, EQ, Simultaneous sound for all their "COSM" nothing more then that, there is no microphone, no shell depth, no head type, it's all EQ & tuning mimic with these name, they are not real..Adding these "COSM" + all their Roland DPS effect can make weird result with the sound.

You don't need these kind of stuff when your sample are recorded direct from studio and with quality with multi layers-round robin, you have the real drum and the real name, there is no others choice then use multi-layers-round robin sound and the most tweak you can do to avoid any sample degradation is for Roll and position sound area, others then that, any microphone position, overhead room, top snare\ bottom snare microphone should be real sample like Pearl mimic are using multilayer wav and multichannel wav 

OK, what I meant by "edrums equivalent" is an upgrade of Yamaha's DTX-900 module with multi-layer samples and some useful Montage functions like 'Live set' with a touch screen and 'Motion control' to change multiple parameters with a single controller (eg foot pedal).

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 04:02:47 AM »
If Yamaha can develop an edrums equivalent of their awesome Montage synth, that should be impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feOfmq2-3bo   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4mMMp9thJg

Yamaha should not use any keyboard reference with drum sample, this is exactly what Roland did, with pcm wav +  "COSM" and turn them with drums name, buts it's all Keyboard based ADSR, VDF, VDA, EQ, Simultaneous sound for all their "COSM" nothing more then that, there is no microphone, no shell depth, no head type, it's all EQ & tuning mimic with these name, they are not real..Adding these "COSM" + all their Roland DPS effect can make weird result with the sound.

You don't need these kind of stuff when your sample are recorded direct from studio and with quality with multi layers-round robin, you have the real drum and the real name, there is no others choice then use multi-layers-round robin sound and the most tweak you can do to avoid any sample degradation is for Roll and position sound area, others then that, any microphone position, overhead room, top snare\ bottom snare microphone should be real sample like Pearl mimic are using multilayer wav and multichannel wav 

OK, what I meant by "edrums equivalent" is an upgrade of Yamaha's DTX-900 module with multi-layer samples and some useful Montage functions like 'Live set' with a touch screen and 'Motion control' to change multiple parameters with a single controller (eg foot pedal).

Ah ok yes, and I think this is what they will do, Steve Fisher with the Yamaha Dtx500 talked alots with the multi layer sound and wav in his video, I am sure this is what are their direction, something to wake up everyone, I don't think Steve will want to be behind, Yamaha Touch App are very strong in their Editor, and Roland very limited to none, spd-sx editor is basic, compare to the Multi 12 DTX, maybe this will change soon with Roland, just see the difference here...must faster editing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jr9eqV3KAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grh0A_I25cg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UldJvjFVx68
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 04:28:34 PM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 09:06:53 AM »
Steve Fisher with the Yamaha Dtx500 talked alots with the multi layer sound and wav in his video, .........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grh0A_I25cg

FYI, the DTX-502 module specs state the total memory capacity for imported audio files (20 max) is only 1 MB.

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2016, 02:12:07 PM »
Steve Fisher with the Yamaha Dtx500 talked alots with the multi layer sound and wav in his video, .........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grh0A_I25cg

FYI, the DTX-502 module specs state the total memory capacity for imported audio files (20 max) is only 1 MB.

I know this is total weird...they should at least include 16MB, but this is business decision..

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2016, 10:59:46 PM »
 Roland V Drum shells being assembled at the Remo Factory! From Remo Facebook

It might be old picture, but they just posted recently..

« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 11:12:38 PM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 03:15:48 AM »
Roland V Drum shells being assembled at the Remo Factory! From Remo Facebook

No wonder Roland don't want a cheaper (Alesis) alternative competing with their version of a full-size ekit!

Maybe Pearl will encourage them to reveal a major module upgrade compared to the TD-30, but at what price?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 10:11:47 AM by rhysT »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 02:18:11 PM »
Roland V Drum shells being assembled at the Remo Factory! From Remo Facebook

No wonder Roland don't want a cheaper (Alesis) alternative competing with their version of a full-size ekit!

Maybe Pearl will encourage them to reveal a major module upgrade compared to the TD-30, but at what price?

There is difference between quality reliability and multiple issue, Alesis is know as not much reliable parts and component at long run, there is things that broke.
For the price, they never change it mostly from previous flagship but newer, Pearl Module is 2000$ Roland flagship Module is 2100$ pretty close.

Someone at vdrum posted a new Patent from Roland...this could be new product in production

One "bolt" Tension the hole mesh
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140305280.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/9040796.pdf

And I found this myself
https://www.google.ch/patents/EP2863383A2?cl=en&dq=inassignee%3A%22Roland%20Corporation%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA7Yv5nOvOAhWKlR4KHYF3Cdg4PBDoAQhVMAg

if you find others Roland Patents, it's hint of new products from Roland.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 02:20:52 PM by ChrisK »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2016, 03:27:32 AM »
New Roland,  bass drum, New module etc... the rest might be larger snare and ride?

Video
https://www.facebook.com/VDrumsAustralia/videos/1234612949916927/
New Product: Drums & Percussion A-H
► tfr.roland.com/au/unleash?prc
The subtle, expressive power of the snare drum and ride cymbal
A truly expressive drummer can amaze the audience with their subtle mastery of the snare and ride cymbal. For years, Roland has developed snare and ride cymbal technology that lets the drummer’s technique shine. But where will the quest for artistic expression lead us? The next chapter of V-Drums story is about to begin.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 05:32:53 AM by ChrisK »

Online Hellfire

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2016, 08:25:30 AM »
New Roland,  bass drum, New module etc... the rest might be larger snare and ride?

Video
https://www.facebook.com/VDrumsAustralia/videos/1234612949916927/
New Product: Drums & Percussion A-H
► tfr.roland.com/au/unleash?prc
The subtle, expressive power of the snare drum and ride cymbal
A truly expressive drummer can amaze the audience with their subtle mastery of the snare and ride cymbal. For years, Roland has developed snare and ride cymbal technology that lets the drummer’s technique shine. But where will the quest for artistic expression lead us? The next chapter of V-Drums story is about to begin.

Like any of this, it doesn't matter until we hear it. I really didn't see anything different in those images other than a full size kick drum.

Online Hellfire

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2016, 08:33:36 AM »
if you find others Roland Patents, it's hint of new products from Roland.

That's not 100% true. There have been a few patents that Roland filed and never did anything with. Companies do this all the time to block loop holes in a given product.

I don't think a single bolt tension system is all that important. BTW, it isn't new either. I seem to recall a drum manufacture in the 1980's using something similar. The other thing I don't get is, I thought every edrum user wanted his kit to look more "Acoustic"! That's why some many go the DIY route. Now we are to believe that everyone is going to drop the idea of acoustic looking edrums because Roland came up with a new single bolt tension design?

I think the single bolt tension design is meant for a device kind of like the OnHead. It's Roland way of making a trigger you can sit on top of an existing acoustic drum. I really don't think it is meant as a replacement to their standard edrum triggers.

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2016, 02:20:42 PM »
New Roland,  bass drum, New module etc... the rest might be larger snare and ride?

Video
https://www.facebook.com/VDrumsAustralia/videos/1234612949916927/
New Product: Drums & Percussion A-H
► tfr.roland.com/au/unleash?prc
The subtle, expressive power of the snare drum and ride cymbal
A truly expressive drummer can amaze the audience with their subtle mastery of the snare and ride cymbal. For years, Roland has developed snare and ride cymbal technology that lets the drummer’s technique shine. But where will the quest for artistic expression lead us? The next chapter of V-Drums story is about to begin.

Like any of this, it doesn't matter until we hear it. I really didn't see anything different in those images other than a full size kick drum.

I think the image is replica of 3d rendering, and the bass drum is only to show the acoustic trigger, see the round circle, it might be the bass drum patent we seen before over the head.
But snare and ride look bigger then what Roland offers to me.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 02:48:09 PM by ChrisK »

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2016, 06:14:51 AM »
http://tfr.roland.com/global/products
New Td-50

New Ride 18"
Comfortable 18-inch size with familiar motion, plus a new high-resolution, multi-sensor system

New Snare 14"
Anyone noticed the 14-inch, multi-element sensor system and a three-layer mesh head

New Bass Drum Convertor

Roland changed their 7-8 years Flagships lifetime to 4 years!





« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 07:41:26 AM by ChrisK »

Offline rhysT

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2016, 07:08:32 AM »
PD-140DS - 14-inch Snare V-Pad with multi-element sensor system and three-layer mesh head
http://tfr.roland.com/global/products/product-04

I wonder how the PD-140DS Snare pad's "multi-element sensor system" compares to the Alesis patented equivalent?

Online ChrisK

Re: New Roland kits\Module ?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2016, 07:22:12 AM »
PD-140DS - 14-inch Snare V-Pad with multi-element sensor system and three-layer mesh head
http://tfr.roland.com/global/products/product-04

I wonder how the PD-140DS Snare pad's "multi-element sensor system" compares to the Alesis patented equivalent?

I have no Idea, same for the ride, 18-inch size Ride with familiar motion, plus a new high-resolution, multi-sensor system.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 08:55:00 AM by ChrisK »